Have you read Sojourner's thread at CS?

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Apparently Sojourner has predicted the death of BTS. We are an exclusive club, not a community. So she has started her own forum, so there.

She has lots of good ideas, and I have often enjoyed her intellect and spunk, but one thing that annoys me greatly is when people disloyally trash a forum they have been accepted into. (She's not the only one I'm referring to). I realize she wasnt given the password, but she also was made aware that she was, first of all, new and rather unknown to us, and secondly, that lots of people are on a waiting list cuz of the glut of requests, and it hasnt been that long.)

I dunno, food for thought.......lots of room for lots of forums!

Are we an exclusionary club? And if so, do you think we'll die of boredom and non-growth cuz we all agree too much?

-- Anonymous, July 21, 2001

Answers

Sorry Earthmama we posted at the same time. Yours is better!.....Kirk

-- Anonymous, July 21, 2001

I don't even think we are an exculsionary club, and certaintly won't die of boredom. We are bunch of very different people here, who are learning from each other what it means to be a small part of a larger community. We are the world. I look forward to my time on here. I need friends in my life who know me, and also know I'm not a pefect person in a perfect life.

I read that this morning, and just kinda shook my head.

Why is it necessary to cut down others just to say you have a new forum? Why can't a person just invite others, tell them about it and not mention "all of that"? Personally, I don't know where this person gets the time to post very, very long comments each and every day. It would take hours each day to write all that they do. Not to sound rude, but I do believe we all here have a full life outside of this forum also.

I felt no need to comment, I actually though they might just get rid of it since it was obviously a "unfriendly" unasked for bunch of personal opinions about folks who still are regulars on CS. It depends on how it goes whether I'll post something or not. Yes, lots of room for lots of forums!

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001


Well, I noticed that Soujourner's post started off with the question of whether other people missed having BTS as well, so I didn't take it in a totally negative way, however, the enclosed quote used sure left me puzzled as to her intentions. Suddenly it was 'they' situation.

Subsequent posts from other people I found to be more disheartening, because it seemed like they came from those who professed to be open- and like-minded, but they didn't see what was causing the problem. Sort of a "didn't hurt ME" attitude that turns around and starts using titles (hey, I thought so many people weren't INto 'titles' --- ?).

I can understand that Sojourner has embraced and enveloped Logsdon, but nevertheless, BTS was created as home base, where you're safe. I think some of our posts have already shown that we are all struggling against the slings and arrows of our daily community living that we can't escape (hey -- take my relatives. PLEASE!!!!). Home is where you go and close the door when you've had enough of 'community' that you can't escape. Are you supposed to open your door and invite anyone who wants to to come in and do whatever they want?

I'm afraid that Kirk is right, it's all about stepped on toes. I have encountered this attitude in a lot of different situations over the years. I was selling artwork, and someone wanted a piece, but didn't want to pay the price I'd set. They didn't want to go elsewhere, or look at something cheaper, they wanted THIS piece, for pennies on the dollar. When I stuck to my price, they got very huffy and replied "I think that you artists just want US to pay for your art supplies!"

What a novel concept! That you shouldn't just give away your work and eat dirt instead, overjoyed that they would deign to want your work. Art supply houses DO give out free art materials, you know....

Perhaps you can say that I got my feelings hurt on that one (except that I actually found it pretty darn ironic ). But it does seem that some of the attitude displayed in response was a good example of why the board went private. Regrettable, as John pointed out over there, but neccessary. My firewall has been taking a lot of probing hits from unidentifiable sources lately here on BTS since the password was installed, ones that occured before only when other highly emotional threads were going on. I think it's rather ominious that they ONLY occur when these negative events occur.

I guess in conclusion, I've got to say that, well, that's Logsdon's opinion. Every group (AND community) has it's own lifespan, determined by outside influences, not just internal ones, because everyone who goes there is influenced by what happens to them day to day on the 'outside', and is carried along in their brain, influences their thoughts and behavior, so that the group percieved as 'closed', 'clique-ish', or whatever, never really is.

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001


That's how Sojourner feels because she is hurt. I don't like to see any one hurt and I am sorry about that. I think that we are only just starting to know each other here and we have just begun to start to open up.I feel like it was a lot harder to share alot of the things that we have begun to share, when who knows who was reading.

I understand where the community ideas are coming from to a point. I have lived in some real live villages and yes you did have to live day to day with people that you didn't like, BUT, you didn't sit down to eat with them at the local Diner, no, you sat and chumed with the ones who enjoyed you and the ones you enjoyed. You might have had to look up and there you saw your enemy as they walked to the counter, but they didn't sit at the same table with you. That's what this BTS forum is to me. A table where my friends are gathered, sharing, the world is still out there, I have only to look up. We as a forum may die someday, as all things do, but as for now,we have only just begun.

My 2cents Tren

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001


I love the gentleness of BTS, I would have NEVER posted about my Mama on CS because it is a big forum and it would not have been recieved like it was on this forum . I've been left out of thing all my life and I quess we all have. I figure that if you make to big a fuss about not being invited to something you may have answered your own question. Sherry

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001


I really like Trendle's analogy (my own post got kind of gibberished. I deleted a whole lot before I posted!). I'm living in a village, have lived here most my life, so did my dad, so did my grandparents, and their parents were one of the three families that settled down within stone's throw of each other and made it a town.

As such,and because in a town with a population under 500 (exact figure unknown, last time I heard it was 400 people in 100 sq. miles) you sure DO know everything about everyone. Who slept with who's husband. Who had an illegitmate child with their cousin. Who gets liquored up and beats their wife. Who got fired from their job for stealing. Who embezzled. Who got arrested for cutting down trees illegally on state land. Whose kid kicked out the windows at the school. Whose dog that is coming into your front yard to defecate because the owners let him run. Who got drunk and ran their car off the road, then stole the tow truck and drove off when the cops showed up to arrest him for DUI (third offense).

Man, is it any wonder people are turning off their Tv's? They've got total soap opera right outside!! But that's why I DON'T go to the local cafe (aside from time and because I'm a better cook) -- I'm totally sick of the same old thing and the same old animosities that are 40 years old, sometimes older. Go home, close door, kick off shoes, enjoy peace and quiet and talk with who you want to talk to.

I was thinking of the analogy of BTS being a house. The door is open, and people come and go like a big party, even some people you don't know. But people deal with it. Then a stray dog comes in, decides to snarl at a few people, lift a leg on the sofa, and generally spoil the mood for the people there. The dog gets put outside, the door gets closed. People arriving to the party late find that the door is closed. Do they knock to request entrance, or do they just go away in a huff because the door wasn't left open for them? It's someone's house, after all, shouldn't you knock?

My analogy about selling the artwork was that this person wanted me to do all the work, and they'd dictate the terms. (I declined that person and sold it for full price the next day by the way) Just another little slice of American's expectations of instant gratification.

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001


Are we dead yet?

That's the question I'll be asking myself from time to time - whenever our forum slows down and people aren't posting here quite as much as before... ;-)

I do think it's a bit presumtuous of Sojourner to predict the death of our forum simply because we've now closed our borders. Maybe she should get a job with Psychic Friends Network? But I do wish her well in her new forum - heck, I may post there occasionally if I'm so inclined (well, on second thought... maybe not) - but I will be REALLY curious to see how she'll be feeling in about... oh, 3 or 4 months from now, after she's had a *good* chance to get her hands dirty in administrating her own forum. I guess my feeling is that she should walk a mile in my shoes before acting so holier-than-thou and being so quick to judge my actions.

Anyway, I wish her well in her journey. It will be interesting to see how her forum fares over the next few months...

Are we dead yet?

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001


I realize I havent been too active, I'm trying to help my dad. I am surprized that S. wasn't invited to be a part of this group because I always enjoyed their contributions. I hate to say we are "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" but why could S. now join.

Again, I know I missed a lot so I am not trying to be argumentative, I'm just confused!!! Kim

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001


Hey Kim,

She made it clear that she did not agree that BTS should be a closed group. She has said that many times in her thread over there at CS also. She does not want to belong to a passworded forum. I for one think her new forum is a good idea for her, she seems to need allot of attention. (and I don't mean that in a bad way, some people are just like that)

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001


I definitely do not think that we are"dead"! At least not yet. If this forum fizzles out eventually, so be it. But for now, I'm enjoying the comraderie here along with the help and personal support. If this other person (and I really don't know her or him very well) wants to start their own forum, well that's fine. If the reason for starting that forum is dissatisfaction with BTS and CS, that's fine also. But just leave the explanation at that. Personally, I think that this group will be around for a long time. We're kinda like a bunch of good friends who might drift apart occasionally but will always find their way back!!

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001


This place might die if we all moved to the city and worked for IBM or something. My point is As long as there is simplicity and homesteading there is going to be things to talk about. Like minded people have an entire lifestyle to share! ......Kirk

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001

I read the posts and I just have this to say: Yawn! IMO whining in public about not getting the password is sufficient grounds for not getting the password.

I don't think that we'll die, of all the lists and forums I'm on, the closed ones are the strongest.

-- Anonymous, July 23, 2001


Die? Nope. How silly. This is a place where we can come and share the important things; the things we don't want to share with the whole world wide web - as well as the place that we can share the everyday stuff. I still run over and check out CS and FSR, and now I reckon I'll drop in and see what's happening on AVC as well. I don't post much on CS, hardly ever on FSR; but I'm thinking about answering a chicken post over on AVC, even though grant has posted the same message on all the boards so I could answer it anywhere - sticking my toes in and testing the waters, as it were!

I agree with what Julie and Tren said about living in a community and then coming home and closing the door, not inviting the whole world in. I do feel sorry for the lurkers, as I know how I would feel if all the other boards suddenly closed their doors. I used to live and breathe CS, but now it's just too big - too many people I don't know. I had fears of the same thing happening here, and I'm glad that that fear has been alleviated. I couldn't imagine posting about Sis and Ryan, or Pop, or Unc on CS now; but when I went to KY and was talking to Cindy on the phone and we were making plans to meet, she wanted to make sure that "Sis and Sweetie" would be along with me!

We "know" each other here, not just as posters, but as families. We know each other's spouses and SOs names, some of the kids names and a lot of the critters. We know what's planted in the gardens, as well as what is planted in the hearts.

I guess it kind of came to a head for me when Holly (Sojo) c/o us (me) wanting people to introduce themselves - like it was an invasion of privacy. She said she hadn't read our intros. So, okay - is that the kind of participant we want? Someone who doesn't know us and doesn't want us to know them? She made me feel like a snoop. I know that a lot of people would look upon what I do for a living as being a snoop, but it really isn't. I don't have to push anyone to tell me things - in fact, once they start, sometimes it's pretty hard to stop them. I feel that this forum is like a friendship in that it is built on trust and shared knowledge and experience. If I can't trust you, then my conversation is going to be pretty superficial, and I've got enough superficial in my world already - I don't need to come to a forum to get more of it.

While we started as an offshoot of a Homesteading forum, we really talk very little about homesteading on here - at least about the physical part of it. Our conversation is more angled toward the spiritual side of homesteading, country living, etc...; so I wonder why those who have complained so often about CS going off topic are now complaining because we have closed the door. Much to ponder, I guess!

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001


Very well spoken, Polly!!!

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Polly I love that!

" We "know" each other here, not just as posters,but a families. We know each others spouses and SO's names, some of the kids names and lots of critters. We know what is planted in the gardens, as well as what is planted in the heart."

Wow! Polly! Thanks! TREn

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2001



Tee-Hee!! Bop over and read the latest post to Sojo's thread "Invitation to a new forum" on CS, and see why I'm giggling! Some times you just can't get the message across....

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Whoops! The answer I'm referring to is Laura's. Thought Bob's response was nice though.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Well, I've had a couple of private emails with Laura (Leekis) in the past, about daylilies. She seems perfectly nice and pleasant. So, I sort of feel badly for her. I keep thinking of how I might feel if I were in the "left out" position. I hope I would be taking it better than some are.

On the other hand, using Laura as an example, who even KNEW she was interested in BTS? Never one comment on any thread. In a blind media such as this, where we can't "see" anyone hanging out, how are we to know someone is there? How can we include them -- you know, in "reality", if you saw someone shyly hanging around the fringes, you'd try to draw them into participation, try to get to know them, etc. You can't DO that if you don't even know they're there.

[fume] I am thinking about posting something to that thread. Hope I don't regret it!

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001


Laura said very plainly she only wants to lurk. That's all she's done. Lurking is not being a part of the forum. I am very suprised at some of the answers over there. They don't even know anything about it, they're only guessing. Yeah, Bob said some good things. I also noticed that Sojo said anyone was welcome on her new forum if they "play nice", and I can't figure that one out.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

O.K................now that i have totally blown it.......does anyone else want to give it a try?????????

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

Maybe I missed the "big picture" but, when Jim decided to go password protected that notice indicated you could send an e-mail and request the password. That's what I did. Maybe I'm too dense to recognize I wasn't "specifically and personally invited" but I figured if Jim didn't want to include me he wouldn't have sent me the password. How can every single person expect to be personally invited?

To each his/her own. CS forum likes to discuss the nuts and bolts of country living (i.e., goats, sheep, farm equipment etc.); the Freedom forum likes to discuss the religiousness of country living i.e., prayers for friends, Hoots messages, etc.); BTS likes to discuss the kinda everyday aspects of country living (i.e., introductions, favorite recipes, chats and other interesting stuff). I have no idea what Sojourner's forum will discuss but I'll check it out from time to time to see if there's anything of interest to me. It may be a nice combination of all the forums.

In the meantime, it's good to see so many familiar names still here. I look forward to reading how everyone is doing.

Wishing you enough.

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001


Okay, I posted an anwer. Y'all come over tomorrow and bandage me up from the slings and arrows, okay?!

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

Dianne, I could be wrong, but I don't think that JIM ever told anyone to request a password. In any event, you had joined us some time before the password issue came up. You played by the rules and you PARTICIPATED in the discussions. Therefore, when you requested the password, we felt you had become a true member of the group -- not a lurker (most of whom we didn't even KNOW were there), not a looky- loo, not a trouble maker, not an UNKNOWN quantity. Some people who were quite new but had shown their willingness to participate also got the password. Some of the original invitees didn't get passwords -- they were the folks that haven't been seen or heard from in several months. Possibly some of them will come back eventually.

Jim, Cindy, and I spent hours and hours trying to decide, based on what we knew and what feedback we'd gotten, who would get a password and who wouldn't. It was very difficult, and we're all well aware that people got their feelings hurt. It bothers all of us, but the attacks bothered us more. I believe that Jim contacted each person who had requested a password, even if the answer was "Sorry, no" (Jim was much less abrupt than that!).

Polly, I thought your analogy was the best one I've seen so far, though I thought the one Julie posted (here) about the house and the one Diane posted about the fishing hole were good too. NOTHING explains it entirely.

Has anyone noted that THIS forum is the only one that has suffered such attacks -- of the CS offshoots that is? I'm not just talking about the troll who was maligning Sharon. But all the cheap shots at this forum and our reasons for starting it and our desire to close the doors, etc. I also noticed that there weren't any people NOT on this forum who took exception to the attacks on Sharon. Apparently that trollish behavior is okay?

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001


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