Many times when a cut and paste link is posted the reaction to the piece is to the web site that posted it. I'm not going to supply a link right now so that this piece can stand on it's own.

As a woman I have to say I find this to be pretty much accurate. I only wish I had recognized it much earlier in life.

Short Skirts

"A woman sitting in a short skirt must perpetually classify men out of the corner of her eye, and that is her hell. There are those who avert their gazes when they talk to her. These are scared or hard to get. There are those who look boldly at her thighs, the frankly sexual; and those who steal looks slyly, the dirty young men. There are those who look only at her face, the ones who don't need her. Then there are the ones who look first at her face and then at her thighs, and for them she is a person first and a sexual object after that.

"Those who look away can be seduced, the bold used, the sly humiliated, the respectful respected, and the last loved. All this is noted by her and decided without a word or even a glance in return, and she has known it all since childhood if she is a real woman. If she puts her coat over her knees, then she is waiting for something or somebody, or trying to make up her mind about some trouble; in that case she does not need nor want his glances, and the man has known this since childhood if he is a real man."

-- Debra (Thisis@it.com), July 19, 2001

Answers

Interesting Debra. Personally, I only (occasionally) wear short skirts if I'm accompanied by a man. Otherwise I wear long skirts. If I wear long skirts, I still get plenty of male attention, but it's respectful. Even the sops sitting on the sidewalks don't give me a hard time. If I wear a short skirt and I'm alone, all hell breaks loose. It's not worth the hassle! Long skirts are attractive and comfortable. A woman can avoid all the scenarios listed above by simply lowering her hem. For some reason men just leave you alone if you wear a skirt that hangs over your knees. Lots of (nice) men find long skirts attractive too.

-- About Your Knees (keep@them.hidden), July 19, 2001.

Why does a woman choose to wear a provocative garment? She is communicating something, maybe several somethings. What is a man to do with his eyes when a woman walks by with legs-up-to-here and a skirt even higher? What is a man to do with his eyes when a woman's neckline is so low that her boobs are falling out?

Is the sentence quoted below the PC reaction? OK, I'll play but don't expect every man to play.

"Then there are the ones who look first at her face and then at her thighs, and for them she is a person first and a sexual object after that."

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), July 19, 2001.

Women must wear chador or they will be stoned as whores.

-- (Osama bin Laden@Afghan.mountain resort), July 19, 2001.

"Who likes short-shorts?"

"We like short-shorts"

-- (Royal Teens@19.58), July 19, 2001.

I thought it was:

"Nair for short-shorts"

Me? I like'em!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 19, 2001.

I find that, when I see a woman in public who is wearing provocative clothing, I react like the stereotype of a prude. I set my jaw, I look away, I feel vaguely angry. I rarely derive any pleasure from it. One can choose one's thoughts, but not one's feelings.

When I question my feelings I find that I deeply resent being manipulated in the way that this piece describes. This was not true when I was a young teenager and my hormones were raging at their highest pitch. But even by the time I was twenty this had changed.

When a woman deliberately flaunts her breasts or thighs, I feel like telling her, "Get those damn things out of my face."

The problem is that she is presenting me with a series of choices and I don't like any of them. I can ogle her, but that stimulates sexual feelings to no purpose - am I supposed to look my fill and then go away and masturbate? - no, thank you. I can look away, but that gives her the power to control my gaze just as much as my ogling her.

I can pretend that I regard a half-naked woman the same as any other object in my field of vision. That is pure pretense. When I try to pretend that I only disgust myself because I know it isn't even remotely true. I could conceivably respond to the advertisement by raping her. I am not about to do that.

Yes. I could firmly gaze into her face first and only then at her legs or breasts. But that presupposes I am interacting with her to begin with. In 99 out of 100 cases, the contact is so casual that this isn't even an option. All I really get is an involuntary eyeful of tits, ass and legs sending out strong sexual waves indiscriminately in my direction.

When a woman is dressed more modestly, I still notice her sexuality and appreciate it, but it feels much less like an assault on my senses and a challenge to a duel - like a glove slapped in the face. I don't think the metaphors of violence are misplaced here. Sex is a very strong force.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), July 19, 2001.

Skirts? Who wears skirts? I wear overalls all the time. I discovered it is difficult to shoot pool in a short dress a long time ago. Skirts weren't as bad, but bad enough. Now low cut tops are a benifit when shooting pool, especially when you bend over to watch a man line up his shot.

-- Cherri (jessam6@home.com), July 19, 2001.

You're getting old Nipper, getting old. Sad isn't it?

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), July 19, 2001.

JBT, I firmly believe that men have imaginations and can use them when forced to. :)

-- helen (long@skirts.can.be.lifted.too), July 19, 2001.

"You're getting old Nipper, getting old. Sad isn't it?"

Yeah. I do know that those displays aren't for my benefit these days. I am out of the pool.

Fortunately, if I were single and needed to be a player in that whole mating game, I could attempt to display conspicuous signs of wealth and prestige. Women do respond sexually to high status males and middle-aged guys can flaunt that sex attractant just like a young stud can flaunt his pecs.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), July 19, 2001.

>>Now low cut tops are a benifit when shooting pool, especially when you bend over to watch a man line up his shot.

What you did was confuse us about who was a decent female and who wasn't. We thought women accidentally exposed themselves and enjoyed their innocence. You gave the good ones a bad name. I know your kind. You're the kind who desperately flaunts her *assets* with the hopes of finding a father for your bastard children. It don't work. We see right through you and use you for what we can get. Now that you're fat, Nobody wants you.

-- (Looking@for a respectible .female), July 19, 2001.

Of the men who responded to this thread, the only healthy one appears to be Deano, who simply enjoys women. The others find women's sexuality disturbing, threatening, or morally reprehensible.

Men, go to the beach and look around. The guys on the beach are baring a lot more skin than the ladies. However, I don't go home an stew about seeing a man's bare torso, or get angry about it. I don't think, "Get that out of my face you flaunting male!" If a guy is showing off a nice muscular torso, I simply enjoy it.

As for why women wear short skirts, for the same reason so many men go topless I suppose: because they like it. They have the right to wear short skirts if they want to! The only reason I posted that part about wearing long skirts is that in doing so, I avoid the harrassment of MEN who seem UNABLE or UNWILLING to control their thoughts, feelings, or judgments.

Why let it bother you? Why not just accept everyone for who and where they are at any particular point in time? Why do men always have to take the things women do to please themselves so dang personally? Why are men so obsessed with control, about what a woman should and should not do?

Women wear short skirts because they like the style, because their legs are their best feature, or because they want to keep up with fashion. It isn't some mysterious process; they're just enjoying themselves.

It isn't "provocative" unless a man responds as if it is. Men are projecting their own biases, fanaticism, and insecurities upon women. It's not the women who are at fault, it's the men who put women in this position of having to put up with men's ugly lack of control, their leering and jeering.

This goes both way. A woman who lashes out at topless men or men who dress in really tight pants only highlights her own neuroses and problems, her own problems with male sexuality.

Why can't we all just live and let live? Why do attractive sexy women have to live in fear all the time from harrassing males? Why can't men let go of their obsessive need to control women and simply enjoy them?

-- About Your Knees (keep@em.covered), July 19, 2001.

right on Cherri

the old cleavage distraction technique

heehee =0)

-- (cin@cin.cin), July 19, 2001.

About Your Knees,

Wearing bathing suits at the beach is hardly a good example of what I had in mind when I talked about "flaunting". Everyone at the beach wears a bathing suit. It is expected attire. Old flabby men and sexless toddlers are wearing bathing suits.

"Women wear short skirts because they like the style, because their legs are their best feature, or because they want to keep up with fashion. It isn't some mysterious process; they're just enjoying themselves."

Uh huh. And men subscribe to Playboy for the articles.

"It isn't 'provocative' unless a man responds as if it is."

Defining whether something is 'provocative' by the level of response is disingenuous because it leaves out the self-control of the person responding. Suppose the North Korean soldiers at DMZ were ordered to fire their guns into the air, rather than at the opposing soldiers. Would that action only be considered 'provocative' if the opposing soldiers fired back at the North Koreans and started a war?

The truth is that heterosexual men respond to women's bodies, unless they are gravely ill. Period. This is as predictable as the sun rising. There is no "if" about men responding. They do. The only "if" involved is how they express their response. Do not tell me that women do not know this.

Showing off one's "best features" is all about being 'attractive'. Now who or what do you suppose is being attracted? Lemonade attracts ants. Attractive features on a woman attract... ants? No. Men? Yes.

Why would a woman want to attract a man...? Hmmmm. Beats me! Sure couldn't have anything to do with sex, that's for sure!

"Why let it bother you?"

As I said before, it is easy to choose one's thoughts, but not one's feelings. Feelings are not voluntary. They come. They go. Essentially, it bothers me because it is a frustration and an irritant.

As a man I am going to respond to the unmistakable sexual signal that the woman is emitting. No question. As a married man, I am socially bound to keep my response within non-sexual bounds - essentially mild flirtation is the most I could indulge in - no touching. The more often this plays out in real life, the more irritating it becomes.

I also get irritated at the similar use of sexual images in advertising, because they elicit much the same cycle. You can't have sex with a supermodel on a billboard, but my emotions don't understand that simple fact. It is just like being poked over and over in the same damn place - it gets sore.

I do not blame women for this sore spot. It is a byproduct of unavoidable circumstances. But feelings are not voluntary. All I am doing is acknowledging them in public - something few men ever do on this subject. Call it "unhealthy" if you like. That won't change anything.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), July 19, 2001.

Women wear provacative cloths to get looked at. They want to be noticed. The very least I can do is look. Doesn't hurt anyone.

-- greg (somewhere@else.com), July 19, 2001.

Even Jimmy Carter "lusted in his heart".

-- (Hef@Playboy.mansion), July 19, 2001.

When a woman's skirt is above the knee it means bedroom, not boardroom. It's a power play designed to enhance the wearer's ego.

-- Hugh Heffner (International@Society_of_Girl.Watchers), July 19, 2001.

It's kinda like lookin' out over the ocean at sunset, you can take it all in and appreciate it if you want to or you can turn and head for the waterin' hole, it's your choice.

Me, I preferr to bask in the moment; then head for the waterin' hole; )

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), July 20, 2001.

capnfun, i do the same.

about your knees, you make it sound like all men at the beach have muscular torsos. I've haven't found that (most beaches have men with a number of spare tires around their middle) except for one beach on Oahu. As I walked closer to this one area, I kept noticing that the guys were extremely buff. They looked fantastic. Then as I walked along the beach, I noticed these guys wearing thongs, laying next to other guys wearing thongs, no women around, just men. Sexual overtones aside, I did enjoy the view. :)

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), July 20, 2001.

When a woman's skirt is above the knee it means bedroom, not boardroom. It's a power play designed to enhance the wearer's ego.

I'm sure this was meant to be comedy, but I'd need to have my clothing specially made to obtain suits/dresses that fell below my knees. I know there are those dresses that come down to the ankle, but on me they fall somewhere around my calves. I think there's a wide range between a skirt that's too short and something worn in an Amish community.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 20, 2001.

Anita, it must be because you are tall. I have no trouble finding skirts and suits that come to mid knee, or as the Catholics tested it, touch the floor when kneeling.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), July 20, 2001.

I’ve always preferred a ladies dress to come down around her ankles, panties too!

-- Red (he@ded.player), July 20, 2001.

Red you fool, you'rewasting precious time jerking down tha skirt. Just flip that puppy up over the small of her back when ya bend her over and give her what she went looking for.

-- Rover (Doggie@style.com), July 22, 2001.

As I said before, it is easy to choose one's thoughts, but not one's feelings. Feelings are not voluntary. They come. They go. Essentially, it bothers me because it is a frustration and an irritant.

Nipper, very true, feelings are not voluntary. You often can't do anything about the way you feel, but sometimes you can, if you can determine why you're feeling them. Why is your reaction to "provocative" clothing irritation? Is it solely sexual frustration, or something else?

A small amount of titillation is considered very enjoyable by most males. A small amount of titillation, served up in tasteful doses, can be very enjoyable for most females, if the males are good sports about it.

If you were to take your "irritation" over these types of clothing further, where would it end up? Would you impose rules on skirt lengths, to save yourself some irritation?

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), July 24, 2001.

A technical question: How short is a short skirt? What does one wear underneathe? This is not only an issue of propriety. We live in a cold climate and I am concerned that my daughter risks frost-bitten buns. She wears skirts that just reach the bottom of her butt. She wears thong bikinis. Isn't this dangerous?

-- (casper milquetoast@battle.creek), July 24, 2001.

Casper,

Give me your address and I'll stop by and give you my professional opinion.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), July 24, 2001.

Bemused asked:

Why is your reaction to "provocative" clothing irritation?

I think I already answered that earlier.

Is it solely sexual frustration, or something else?

Pretty much sexual frustration, as far as I can tell. The source of a feeling is not always plain, but I'm not aware of any other source.

If you were to take your "irritation" over these types of clothing further, where would it end up?

This is an unanswerable question. I do not take my irritation further, so there is no basis for knowing what I would do.

Would you impose rules on skirt lengths, to save yourself some irritation?

No. My irritation is not a sufficient justification for restricting skirt lengths.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), July 24, 2001.

The problem with wearing short skirts (mini-skirts) is that you have to make sure to tug it down when you stand up, and you have to be very careful not to bend too far over. It's even tougher when you are 5'10" like I. So....it's just annoying and like...work; hard to relax in a short skirt unless you don't mind flashing panty shots. Especially if you plan on having a few drinks, as in going out. LOL I once wore this ultra-short mini, only to have some strange guy come up to me and say "I just want to thank you..." *blush* and yah I'd had a few drinks. LOL

-- (cin@cin.cin), July 24, 2001.

There is nothing wrong with identifying ones gender and being proud of it. The focus on issues of sexual harrassment, equal opportunity and have made people become so serious about trying to aspire to some non sexual being. Lets live a little. So little time on this planet. Have fun. Short skirts are fun. The guys like them. The girls like them. Sure there are times when you are a bit embarrassed or shy or have to restrain from some activity. Cripes if you want to be a slug wear baggy overalls and spend your life doing home maintenance.

-- Haydn (haythere99@yahoo.com), September 23, 2001.