Ok, serious question here, if we get Robert, and Kiko with Bellamy, Cort, Shola and Lua2 all vying for spots, will Big Al be persuaded to become #2 (sort of a player-coach) behind Robson?

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Answers

God I hope not. Firstly I don't think shearer is ready to hang up his boot yet. Secondly, I believe it would be a disastrous move since he has no coaching experience. Thirdly I can't think of one decent manager/coach that used to be a center forward. I know keegan was, but his time hear as manager was the culmination of many things going right at the same time. Center forwards only know how to play one way, they don't develop a game plan around a combination of skill, tactics, ball winning or solid defending. I am sure one day shearer will manage the Toon, at that point it will be a big mistake.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

If we do sign all these blerks it makes you wonder just how concerned about AS's knee they really are, doesn't it?

If Alan makes a full recovery he will be first choice CF again within a few weeks, and will score another bucket of goals. He will, of course, still be criticised.

I expect him to be appointed BR's No2 at the end of this season, and eventually take over when Bobby retires at the end of the following season. That is, of course, all contingent on this season not going to utter sh*te and BR walking.

As to whether AS will make a good manager, in truth nobody knows. Personally, I hope he goes on to be our most successful ever manager - and frankly, he doesn't have very much to beat.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

I think we'll be surprised to see another new #2 at this stage. With Robson only having a short time left, I can honestly see Alan being groomed for the post. Either that or maybe teaming with Beardo in a joint partnership.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Of course we all hope he is succesfull as our manager because no doubt it is going to happen, I just have some deep rooted fears that this may be a attempt to placitate us for all the years of underachieving. Are we prepared for our club to be used as an experiment to see if AL is a good manager?

What happens if he succeeds? Everyone is happy. If he fails, everything he did for the club as a player will mean nothing.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Syme, my fear exactly. Everything he has meant to NUFC could turn to cr*p if he's a manager.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

This is a fear I'm always articulating on here: we're far less lenient towards our managers than we are towards our Number Nines and the thought of the Gallowgate chanting "Shearer out" is too depressing.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Clarky, I think our quest for strikers demonstrates a recognition that we can no longer place the entire attacking burden on Shearer and that we need more options in terms of style of play.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Further hypotheticals but I wonder how our players would take to Shearer being manager. Ultimately, what cost Vialli and Gullit their jobs at Chelsea was players resenting them once they became managers.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

All valid points dougal, it would be like working with your brother one minute and then next you're working for him. I just don't see the marriage of Shearer and NUFC getting very far past the honeymoon stage when he becomes manager. There are too many ways to fail and only one way to succeed, historically NUFC have had more than their share of poor managers. No one between Joe Harvey and keegan stands out as a good manager, sure we've had adequate managers (Gordon lee) but that would be pushing it. Keegan was blessed with being in the right place at the right time and Hall's millions, how could he fail? If we had Robson in place of keegan with halls millions we would have won everything in sight.

What we don't need is an emotional decision on what could possibly be the most important managerial decision to date. I think YBR is positioning NUFC to be succesfull on the long term, we therefore need someone that is better than or at least as good as YBR. Shearer I feel arrive as our manager before he is due.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Sounded good in me head, not so good on paper.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Makes sense to me, Syme. I honestly wish Shearer would go elsewhere to learn how to be a manager for 5-10yrs then come back IF he has proved himself. Or start at the coaching bottom at NUFC and work his way up over that time.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Syme, IMHO, Cloughie was both a bliddy good centre forward and a bliddy good manager. What did he do when he was prematurely forced to hang up his boots? Did he go straight into management or did he go on courses..................to learn how to be as obnoxious as possible?? Or did he just go out on a long binge??

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Decent managers who used to be centre-forwards:

Taggart Don Revie (deep lying variety) Brian Clough

Not bad for starters - anyone think of any others.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

DalglieI'llGetMyCoat

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Wash your mouth out Raphael, and don't come back until yoyu've done pennance. Yuek. i feel sick.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Firstly, with other potential buys, I suspect (& hope) David Bellamy hasn't been bought in as a failed centre forward but a blooming Attacking Midfielder with a left sided option.

As for Shearer, I share Symme's fears, we he talks all he thinks of is wingers & crosses which explains our own move from clever midfield play to a one dimensional game. As Daglish's mentor, I suspect he'll be a crap manager. Also, what is all the talk of "all that Shearer has given to the club"? He's cost 15m, depreciated in value quicker than a Alfa Romeo, has only been with us since 1996. What of Rob Lee, Wazza, Robbie Elliott, Venneson, Beresford?

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Davie, I also hope that David Bellamy the hairy botanist hasn't been bought in either.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

:-{I

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

I go along with Ciara. I'd far rather Shearer was made or broken elsewhere. His possible failure as a manager should be somebody else's problem. I don't think the timescale is right for Shearer to gain enough experience to justify him taking over from BR in the short time BR is likely to stay on.

And I can't really see Shearer working as a number two to whoever might come in when Bobby packs in, in order to get more experience. If Bobby was likely to stay on for another ten years, say, then there might be some hope for AS as his assistant, before taking over as manager.

But to get to know the job in possibly just two years is a non- starter AFAIC. But I think if that had to be the case, it possibly would be better, although not much, if they went the whole hog and made Shearer manager immediately, with Bobby staying for the two or whatever years to keep an eye on him.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

:-{(

So tell me, just who would be guaranteed to be successful? You all seen to assume the choice is between an inexperienced Shearer - BR's choice incidenatlly - who could indeed prove to be a failure, and some other 'interested party' who is virtually certain to be a huge success. For those of that persuasion I have two words of caution - "Dalglish" and "Gullit".

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

I think its etched in stone. Fast Freddy has been pointing towards Alan, although I hope when it happens he has a good support system backing him a la Bob Paisley behind TSM when he took over at 'pool....

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

After Blackburn are relegted next season. Souness is likely to be axed, and they'll be after a new manager.

A good place for Shearer to practice being a manager before his triumphant return to Newcastle if you ask me.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Clarky
I agree wholeheartedly. What I'd hate would be for AS to fail at SJP, and even though going elsewhere for a while before taking over at SJP has no guarantees either, at least we wouldn't be able to say his lack of experience might have contributed to his failure. It's the possible loss of good will that concerns me as much as anything.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

It's the potential damage to Shearer's reputation that worries me far more than what he does to NUFC. If the press have had the knives out for him playing with England and Newcastle, what are they going to do the first time he makes a mistake (and, being human, he will make mistakes) as a manager of NUFC? Actually Rik's idea of taking over at Blackburn isn't bad. Considering the reception he got at our FA tie there a couple seasons ago, not sure how they'd react to him as a manager. ;-)

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Blackburn fans would welcome him back like the hero he undoubtedly still is to them - the reception he has received there since he left has been down to them feeling he deserted them - much like the cr@p a Geordie lad, called Chris Waddle, was subjected to every time he played at SJP after leaving for Spurs.

In any event, from my observations, AS must be the least-liked Geordie ever to wear the B&W and white England shirts - I have no clue why, other than him costing us alot of money, having a rather diffident 'on-screen' persona, being a friend of Dalglish, not getting on with Gullit, and becoming a self-made millionaire who may be regarded to have risen above his natural station in life. Beats me.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Waddle is a Mackem and he wanted to leave ... hence the reception he got.

Ferdinand is a cockney who didn't want to leave ... hence the reception he gets.

We seem to applaud loyalty.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

I seem to remember waddle saying or eluding to some rather unpleasant things about the club that was so good to him. Ferdinand was a class act through and through.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Clarky, I don't know why you think Big Al is disliked: for about four seasons, he's been the only one of our players to get any sort of reception from the crowd. In fact, our support for him has bordered on the obsessive.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

PS. Clarky, there are some people who DO dislike him. I was talking to a cab driver in Newcastle who loathed him because of his physical game; to someone on this BBS who shall remain nameless but thought that the constant Geordie hero thing fitted badly with his supporting Liverpool as a kid; and someone else who had a certain amount of evidence that he basically thinks NUFC is smaller than he is. Personally, I think he's a very dignified sportsman who has always done his best and who is probably one of our all-time greats. I also think he's got us to Cup Finals and saved us from relegation and for that reason deserves our lasting respect and affection.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

He supported liverpool as a kid?? I seem to remember him saying that he used to stand on the terraces in the gallowgate watching the lads play! whatever happened between him and RG is up to speculation, Ruud thought he was bigger than the club, Al thought he was bigger than RG and the club. He does come off as having some sort of "NUFC is nothing without me" attitude. I hope when his time comes he goes out at the top of his game, not when he's struggling. Let me just say that if he stays injury free he can still contribute a signifant amount for a few more years. I just wanted to pre empt any backlash.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

"Al thought he was bigger than RG and the club. He does come off as having some sort of "NUFC is nothing without me" attitude."

syme,
I have great respect for your views, but I am genuinely bemused by the anti-Shearer lobby on here. What is it that formed the views you expressed as above? I simply can't think of a shred of evidence that would support either view.

BTW, for those who can't think "what it is AS is supposed to have done for the Toon" - it is possibly arguable that we owe 3 (unsuccessful) Wembley appearances to him, but incontrovertible imho that we owe our continued PL presence to his goals. No small feat actually.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

You don't think he comes across as being slightly removed, clarky?? Perhaps I am too far out of the loop to make an objective opinion stick, but that's how I see it. I don't dislike him, I just don't think his reputation is enough to give him the job of managing NUFC. He has done loads for both football and NUFC, and he has been rewarded well. NUFC have come to rely on him too much, I don't wantit to rule the decisions that have to be made in the future.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Syme, he started supporting us when Keegan came. In fact, he turned up to meet Keegan as a kid wearing a Liverpool strip but Keegan told him to go home and get changed (or put a jumper over it or something). Clarky, I honestly don't think there is an anti-Shearer lobby on here. As I say, I know one or two people who have had bad experiences with him and don't like him but then again, my brother-in-law did some building work for him and was enchanted - not least cos Big Al got him loads of tickets to watch the lads, including for Howay 5-0. I think it's a case of people speaking as they find.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Glory hunting, bandwagon jumping so and so. Ha! we showed him. Sure come play for us we'll win ya loads of trophies, ha!

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Fair points syme, and as I've said several times on here, I really don't know how successful AS would be as a rooky manager, and I'm certainly not pushing his credentials.

However, I also know that appointing a new manager is a total 'crap-shoot' (full of 'americanisms' tonight!) at the best of times.

In our recent past we have twice, arguably thrice, appointed the acknowledged "best man available" and - postponing judgement on the 3rd appointment for now - this has proven to be an unmitigated disaster. So, what do we now want the Board to do when they need to pick BR's successor? Pick the "best man available" again? Right now that could well be George Graham?

Major businesses fully understand the difficulties and risks associated with external appointments to critical jobs, and wherever possible will seek to develop internal succession candidates to minimise the risk. They have a good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the candidate(s) and can plan accordingly - both in training/preparing them, and in ensuring insofar as possible that they assist them to establish an adequate support framework when they ultimately take on the senior role.

I happen to believe that internal succession candidates are preferable to a 'crap-shoot'. I actually take great comfort from the fact that AS is clearly BR's choice as his successor - BR is certainly no fool. He can be developed for the job, and if the thing is handled correctly, the Club can ensure that when he takes over the appropriate support infrastructure is in place to further minimise the inevitable risks.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Cannit argue with the facts clarky! Sold. We have tried the best available man three times now, reserving judgement on BR the previous two were disastrous. Try something different is now the only option. Get George Graham, mass exodus from their faculties. I'll go with Shearer and unlimited financial and managerial support.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

clarky I think a lot of the comments regarding Shearer are made for balance rather than personal attacks.

Some one says he walks on water so someone else says I remember the time he....

I have noticed however that when someone makes a negative comment about him they are rebuked. Like myself, I believe he has a dark side to his personality and a strength that is perceived differently by people. Ie his physical style, does he never go too far and leave his foot in or use his arm etc.

Regarding Shearer as manager, he will never be a success as long as his bum points to the ground!

Why?

He does not have enough hair.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Clarky, why would Shearer make a better manager than anyone else at the club? Barton? Speed? Lee? Promotion from within. Why does it have to be Al?

One thing that irks me is your blind love for the man. I know, I know.... you're just defending him.... I have seen many games where he hasn't been "up for it". In my mind that's a crap attitude no matter how awful your boss(RG) is. He was obviously upset at losing his mate(KD) but he's supposed to be professional and he let himself ,and more importantly US, down. I lost a lot of respect for him then.... and NO it was not all down to injuries.

I know you're going to flame me for this post but please allow others to have opinions that are just as valid as yours (IMHO ;-)) ).

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Geordie,

If you actually read my posts carefully I have never, ever recommended Alan Shearer as our next manager. I have pointed out what I believe is the succession plan, and that he appears to be Bobby Robson's choice - which certainly makes me feel rather more comfortable.

In last night's post to syme I tried to articulate why the Club could be giving a strong preference to an internal candidate rather than do what most on here are insisting on us doing - going outside and choosing the ubiquitous "best man available" yet again, and inviting the inevitable consequences.
It could, of course, be argued that the law of averages might play in our favour, sooner or later. However, by that point we may also be selecting "the last man standing".

As to your question - "why not RL or WB"? Why not indeed - I'll say yet again that I'm not personally recommending anyone for the job because I don't know enough about their make-up or potential management skills - but I do believe BR has recommended AS which I suspect could be significant.

If you think this is "flaming you for expressing your opinion" then I sincerely apologise in advance. However, to be honest Geordie I'm getting pretty brassed off with being criticised without even expressing my own views on the situation, but simply for seeking to defend our skipper from all manner of generally uninformed griping, and now for simply attempting to explain the succession process I feel the club is using - and why for once they may just have it right.

Regarding personal opinions - you clearly feel Shearer has a bad attitude: I don't. Am I permitted to say that? If there is a consensus that I'm not - then I'll piss off and share my thoughts elsewhere.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Clarky, divvent be daft man. Your opinion is never unwanted and is more valuable than my "uninformed" one. Also, I wasn't having a go at you over who should be our next manager. I know you are not proposing Al. I was merely asking a question as to whether he is the best available for promotion from within. I personally think he is not, not even sure he's management material, though he would get my 100% backing if appointed... just like he gets my 100% backing when he plays for us. I still hold the (obviously uninformed) opinion that he doesn't always give us 100% back.

I want our next manager to be the best for Newcastle United. AS is way down my list..... so I'd better p**s off elsewhere and leave you to an unchallenged opinion....

bye

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

It's because of the regard I have for AS that I take the 'get some time in' approach.

I don't think anything has been demonstrated that gives us any idea at all about how he might handle management so any discussion on the subject can only be from a 'what if' point of view.

It's also dead easy for devil's advocacy to come across as being anti. I've always tried to voice my worries and if this comes across as being anti, it's completely unintentional.

AFAIC Alan Shearer still can do no wrong. That's the outlook I'm worried I might lose if he made an rrrs of managing the mags.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Clarky - yours is always a welcome opinion. Football is all about opinions (and I'm quoting Big Al himeslf now) so if you think he's mutt's nuts, then it's cool and if someone else regards him less highly, that's cool, too.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Absolute, total agreement dougal - but I object to being criticised simply because I choose to defend the guy. :-{(

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Sorry, Clarky, I haven't read all of this thread so I wasn't aware of anyone criticising you. I think we are all a bit tired and hormonal about NUFC at the moment so I think, once the season starts, we should have a BBS group hug/insult amnesty.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Why should we insult Amnesty? I think they do a good job...I'll fetch my umbrella.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

"I object to being criticised simply because I choose to defend the guy. :-{( "

clarky, I've never (ever, ever, ever,....etc.) seen YOU criticised for defending AS. It's an opinion and your entitled to it.

Now..... how many times have you criticised(?) people for questioning AS? ..

Look in the mirror

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

OK, I give in - swing away.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

We're all batting for the same side....... nee swinging necessary.

If we were in a non-virtual pub (which we should be... and will be) then arguments like this could be explained with a lot more clarity(well at least early in the session!), a lot of humour, and a lot of enjoyment. Please don't take any AS comments personally. That's not good for the soul.

The written word is sharp. The feeling is lost. We write from the heart but read from the head.

Fuck me I'm writing poetry now! ... anyho.... you know what I mean .. I hope

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Nee probs, Wordsworth. ;-{)

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

aaaaaaaahhh fab 50!

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Wordsworth? Hasn't he just joined Soton?

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001