Brethren, brother David Prentice has wisely requested that we give an exposition of the inspired words of the apostle Paul found in Romans the 4th chapter. And that we also, by way of comparison, examine the equally inspired words of James the brother of our Lord in the 2nd chapter of the book of James. And understanding as we do the numerous efforts to distort the truth concerning salvation by faith as taught by both Paul and James into the deliberate and well crafted lie of "salvation by faith ONLY", which was taught by neither of them, we now honor the request of Brother Prentice. And we do so with a thankful spirit toward God for the wisdom displayed by him in making this reasonable and sage request. We thus dedicate these efforts to brother Prentice and his faithful Christian father whom we love in Christ for their continued faithful service to Christ our Lord. It is our prayer that our work will produce the effect that it would should this "father and son" team of evangelist had written it. We invite everyone to consider prayerfully and studiously this exposition and comparison of the two discussions of "justification by belief" as given by both the apostle Paul and James, the brother of our Lord.

Thus we offer in what follows an exposition and comparison not only of the two segments of scripture from Romans and James mentioned by Brother Prentice. But also a complete comparison of the teachings of the Holy Spirit through Paul in Galatians, Hebrews, and the several other statements in the other eleven books of the New Testament of which he was the inspired author with the teaching of the same Holy Spirit through James. We will therefore, through this process, thoroughly collect, compare, and comprehend what the Holy Spirit is speaking to us through the writings of these men concerning "justification by faith". And it is our prayer and fervent hope that all reasonable men will then be able to see clearly the deceptive means of Satan which we have witnessed often in this forum and through out the religious world. For these willful " messengers of Satan", in violent opposition to both James and Paul, deliberately distort their teaching. For they attempt at every opportunity to make it appear that the Holy Spirit has contradicted Himself by inspiring Paul to teach salvation by "faith only" without any works whatsoever and James to teach the direct opposite notion of salvation by faith through works.

Hence they seek to delude us by persuading us to falsely believe that salvation is by "faith only" apart from ANY WORKS prompted by faith WHATSOEVER by "twisting" the Holy Spirit’s words "to their own destruction" and ignoring the Holy Spirit’s words written by James until someone brings them up. Then they deliberately attempt to make it appear that those words cannot mean "by works a man is justified and not by faith only" (James 2:24) since if those words meant what James clearly says then James would be opposed to Paul and Paul to James. Hence their immediate response is to assert that our understanding of James cannot be correct since it is not in harmony with their deliberate distortion, note I do not say their simple misunderstanding, of the words of Paul. And they seldom take up the task of showing how we might misunderstand James but only assume rather that they have clearly understood Paul and therefore we must have misunderstood James.

Thus they hope that it will never occur to us that they have deliberately distorted the teachings of Paul. And they hope that we will not "perceive" the simple truth that the words of James are the clearest evidence of their deliberate distortion and a glaring signal or warning for us to examine their distortions of the same truth taught by Paul. And they further hope that we will not demand to have a clear understanding of what James said. And that we will just assume with them that James must have meant that we are saved by "FAITH OLNY" when he said, "ye see then how that by works a man is justified and NOT BY FAITH ONLY" (James 2:24). It is their highest hope that we will falsely conclude with them that if James truly meant, when speaking of Abraham's justification, that by "works a man is justified". That he would contradict Paul who said, "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God" (Romans 4:2). And that we will agree with them that there is no way for the two to be harmonized with one another without accepting their false doctrine of "salvation by faith only". Though it has never crossed their minds that accepting the doctrine of salvation by "faith only" as true not only fails to remove the difficulty or the apparent contradiction between Paul and James but also only amplifies it. They most certainly do not want us to realize the truth that the only way that we can harmonize the two with one another is to realize that Paul is not teaching their false doctrine of "salvation by faith ONLY". In other words they do not want us to suddenly realize that Paul taught salvation by Faith through works just as did James. And that James does not contradict Paul but rather that he only appears contradictory to Paul because we have been falsely lead to believe that Paul taught "salvation by faith only" when in truth he taught no such nonsense. For the only one of the two to use the words "faith only" is James and he says we are not justified by "faith only". Thus they hope that you and I cannot comprehend that it is not "Paul" that James contradicts but instead it is their false doctrine of "salvation by Faith only" that it’s most ardent adherents falsely ascribe to Paul that James adroitly and accurately CONTRADICTS.

Our discussion shall follow a specific order and we ask for your patience in the development of each of the several points that we have planned for the discussion of this vital and important subject. We shall take them up in separate posts so that each can be covered independently and in our conclusion we shall combine them to show their force in establishing the fact that justification by faith in Christ necessarily includes obedience to the gospel of Christ by repentance (Acts 3:19;17:30) confession of Christ (Romans 10:9,10; Matt. 10:32,33) and immersion in water in obedience to Christ for the remission of sins (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; John 3:3-5; Titus 3:3-5; Romans 6:3-6,17,18; Col. 2:11-13;Acts 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21; Eph. 5:25,26; Heb. 10:22; Acts 8:12-40; Acts 19:1-6;).

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Answers

The following is the order in which we shall, with your kind patience and allowance, discuss this important matter:

Justification by Belief as taught in the inspired writings of Paul.

Justification by Belief as taught in the inspired writings of James.

Harmony of James with Paul found in their common reference to the belief of Abraham.

Examination of the belief of Abraham and how it is emulated by our obedience to the gospel according to both James and Paul.

Obedience to the commands of the gospel of Christ, as the object of our belief, proceeds from and is actuated by our belief in the facts of the Gospel, which is the source of it. Thus belief in the gospel is the means whereby belief accomplishes or brings about our justification. And Paul therefore has vigorously and accurately explained that the Gospel of Christ is therefore "the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth to the Jew first and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16,17).

Admonition to act in harmony with your belief of the gospel of Christ and submit to him in obedience at which time, not one moment before, it can be truly said that you have "believed God".

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Now it is important to begin by reminding everyone that some have thought, among these Luther, that Paul and James were not in agreement on the subject of faith. We intend to demonstrate that those who thus conclude mistake both these inspired men of God. Paul shows that works without faith will not justify, and hence lays the emphasis on faith; James shows that faith without works will not justify, and lays the emphasis on works. Neither teaches that faith alone, or works alone will justify. Paul, indeed, shows that faith alone is worthless (1 Cor. 13:2), and in Hebrews chapter eleven, he emphasizes works as the demonstration of faith. The two writers are in agreement, and all seeming disagreement is due to the fact that they are seeking to correct different errors, and hence look at the matter from different points of view.

We will show that Paul is correcting the error of the Jews who contemplated the notion of justification by works alone that were prompted by desire for meritorious rewards or fear of punishment and were not connected to or motivated by belief or trust in God. And James is correcting the opposite error of justification by a belief that is alone and therefore not accompanied by trusting acts or works prompted by belief in Christ with the simple motivation of meeting his divine conditions of pardon. Both of these errors are equally damaging to the eternal welfare of those who fall into them. Anyone who hopes to be justified or saved by meritorious works without believing in Christ and trusting him for their pardon and justification before God will be woefully disappointed in the judgement. And it is equally true that anyone who hopes to be justified or saved by a mere "mental assent" or acceptance of the facts concerning Christ that represents nothing more than a belief in them. But fails to be animated or moved by that belief to trust Christ enough to obey the commands given by him through the gospel to do the works that He commanded them to do will be equally disappointed in the judgement. For they have disobeyed the Son of God who died for them. To this point Jesus was very clear when he said, "Why call ye me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46). And again he was clear when he said, "Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven but he that doeth the will of my father in heaven." (Matt. 7:21). And Paul in his letter to the Hebrews said that Christ is the "author of eternal salvation to ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM.""(Heb. 5:8,9). And Paul also made it abundantly clear that all those who do not "obey the gospel" will be "punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of God and the glory of his power". (2 Thess. 1:8,9). Now those who misunderstand Paul’s teaching in Romans the fourth chapter overlook these statements made by him indicating that faith must be accompanied by obedience to the gospel. And those who misunderstand James do so because they misunderstand Paul and are attempting to impose their misunderstanding of Paul upon the interpretation of James.

They do this in a feeble effort to remove the unavoidable contradiction their doctrine forces upon James and Paul that cannot exist because they were both inspired by the Holy Spirit to write. Thus they feel the need to make them to appear harmonious without first recognizing the fact that if Paul were teaching their erroneous doctrine of "justification by faith only" there would be absolutely no method whatsoever by which they could harmonize the two. Luther so felt the force of this fact that he was convinced that the book of James deserved no place in the cannon of inspired scripture because he was so thoroughly convinced that Paul taught justification by faith alone. It did not occur to him that Paul was condemning justification by "works alone". And James was condemning justification by faith alone and the two are in perfect agreement that we are justified by a living faith in Christ that prompts us yield to Him as our Lord and obey him. For such is an essential part of redeeming us from sin which is nothing other than rebellion against and disobedience to God.

And it is reasonable to note that since it was disobedience prompted by a lack of faith in God that plunged the world into sin. That a reversal of that process by turning from disobedience to God that was prompted by unbelief to a belief in Christ that prompts us to cease our rebellion and disobedience and begin a new life of obedience to God and thus be reconciled to Him. And when that process begins with our first acts of obedience to Him by faith in Christ, God, because of the sacrifice of Christ, pardons our sins so that we are then put in our original condition before God of being without sin. And our entire lives have then been given as a sacrifice to God by our turning daily from sin and living constantly to obey him in all things and depending still upon the blood of Christ to continually cleans us of our failures. (1 John 1:7).

Thus we become the "servants of righteousness". (Romans 6:17-18). Such is surely necessary to our redemption. For God will not coexist in a heart filled with sin and rebellion against his divine will. And he cannot and will not just ignore sin. For it MUST BE PUNISHED and it will be punished. And for those who have faith in Christ as demonstrated by their obedience to his commands given in the gospel their sins HAVE BEEN PUNISHED for God allows the punishment of the innocent Christ in his crucifixion to satisfy His demand for the just punishment of our sins. But this he does not do until we are "crucified with Christ" by our "dying to sin" and we are buried with him in baptism and raised with him to walk a new life. (Romans 6:3-6; 17,18) and being THEN made free from the just punishment of our sins we become the "servants of righteousness".

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

This explains Paul’s words when he said, "God forbid that I should glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me and I unto the world". (Gal. 6:14). Therefore the fact that we are called upon to obey our LORD who was punished in our place could never give us any reason to "glory" or ‘boast" as some would because of work that they did alone without the aid of a vicarious suffering savior. For it is indeed impossible for them to accomplish by their own device and strength the impossible feat of convincing God by their work, even if it were perfect and flawless, to pardon their sins without punishing ANY ONE for it. No! Salvation will not be granted to them upon their own merit as a debt that must be paid. Not any single sin that has ever been committed since our parents sinned in the Garden of Eden will go unpunished. For God must and God will punish all sin and absolutely no amount of work, acts or deeds will persuade him to forgive our sins without punishing them. And unless we accept the punishment of Christ for our sins we will bear the punishment for them and nothing that we do, believe or say will prevent it. The choice is ours. Whether we, in humble submission to God’s will, seek for God to impute the righteousness of Christ to us. That His punishment might be acceptable to God as our punishment and the shedding of His blood can be acceptable to God in the place of our eternal damnation as the punishment for our sins.

The unbiased can see this truth if they will but think about it. For this reason Christ was vicariously punished for the sins of the entire world (1 John 2:1,2) so that only those who obey him will appropriate the benefits of the imputed righteousness of Christ to their souls. A righteousness that comes from God’s accepting that our sins have been punished in the vicarious suffering of Christ and we are thus forgiven of our sins and pardoned and released from the consequences of them. For this reason Christ is called, "the author of eternal salvation to all them that obey Him." (Heb. 5:8,9).

If there were not conditions of pardon that were required of God then the fact that Christ died for all men would automatically have saved all men without faith, repentance, confession, baptism or any other requirements related to the "obedience of faith". (Romans 16:26,27). And the result would be that God would have merely forgiven those who remain in and continue to be unbelievers and rebellious servants of Satan without requiring that they leave the service of Satan, surrender their rebellion against Him and yield themselves to become His servants. And if anyone thinks that such was God’s plan he is miserably and woefully mistaken! There would have been no change of masters but only an elimination of consequences for sins and a breaking of his promise to punish them.

If this were God’s plan he would have been the justifier of all men. But he would not have been just in the process of doing it. For there would have been no justice for the cruel vicious evils committed by vile and wicked men in this life in rebellion to God. And those who think that the "finished work of Christ" wrought the salvation of the human race without any conditions whatsoever for their pardon are guilty of making God to appear unjust not to mention unwise. For this reason, those who seek to benefit from the sacrifice of Christ must meet God’s conditions that require a belief in Christ and a submission to Christ as the absolute LORD of their lives. Beginning with the their obedience to the gospel by their dying to sin being buried with him in baptism and raised with him to walk a new life. (Romans 6:3-6,17,18).

And we shall see in our examination of Romans the fourth chapter and James the second chapter that this is the truth taught by Paul and James. And that when we combine them both together with the teachings of Paul in Galatians, Hebrews, and various other passages in his other epistles we see a clear picture. We see through those inspired words how that God is not only the justifier of those who believe in Christ but he is also "just" in doing so. (Romans 3:26). And we will be able to comprehend just what belief in Christ really means and how we are "justified by belief" but not by belief only. It shall be abundantly clear that we are saved by "obedience of faith" (Romans 16; 26,27) which is demonstrated by our obedience to the gospel but not by obedience only. And that Paul and James taken together harmoniously teach this principal truth.

As you can see this effort to discuss this important theme is going to be detailed and lengthy. But it is my prayer that all of you will find it beneficial, instructive, and that it will increase your faith in Christ and your dedication and total submission to Him as your Lord so that he can justifiably be your savior.

We shall in our next post commence our discussion of the matters concerning justification by belief as we promised Brother David Prentice in particular and everyone else in general at this outset of the thread. We will follow the outline given above to compare the teachings of both the apostle Paul and James, the brother of our Lord, concerning the subject of justification by belief. We invite your attention to it and ask that you allow us to complete our discussion of each point as we have designed. After which we invite and would appreciate greatly any sincere attempts to correct us if we are found by anyone to be in error concerning this important matter related to the salvation of our souls from sin by the precious blood of Christ our Lord.

It is our purpose to show that the Holy Spirit inspired both Paul and James to write consistently concerning this subject in order to correct two separate errors concerning it. We shall show that Paul wrote to compare the condemnation of the Jew by the Law of Moses and the condemnation of the gentile by the Law of nature with the justification of all men by faith in obedience to the gospel of Christ. We shall demonstrate that one was condemning justification by "works alone" and the other was condemning justification by "faith alone".

But both taught the principle of justification by faith, which requires obedience to God as much as did the Law of Moses. By the Law of Moses salvation was impossible but by the "law of faith" (Romans 3:27;Romans 4:16; Romans 9:32; Galatians 3:11) it was finally a reality because of the vicarious suffering of Christ and his bearing our sins in his body on the tree. The Law of Moses was not designed to "justify" but to condemn the disobedient and keep the children of Israel in line or from destroying themselves until Christ should come to redeem us. It was like the "school master" (Gal. 3;24,25) whose task it was to control the child until he reached adulthood. The word, "schoolmaster" is the English translation of the Greek term "paidagogos {pahee-dag-o-gos'}" which was a term applied to " a tutor i.e. a guardian and guide of boys. Among the Greeks and the Romans the name was applied to trustworthy slaves who were charged with the duty of supervising the life and morals of boys belonging to the better class. The boys were not allowed so much as to step out of the house without them before arriving at the age of manhood." Thus the Law of Moses was served to guide, control, and instruct the disobedient and rebellious Israelites until they could be brought to Christ. Thus, there was no justification found in the Law of Moses, short of meritoriously complying with it various requirements. There was, therefore, in reality only condemnation for all had "sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

The Law of Christ, as found in the gospel of Christ (Romans 8:2;Galatians 6:2; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4), was designed not to condemn but to justify, those who believed it, by the "obedience of faith". For Paul said," But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith" (Romans 16:26). And obedience to the faith, " By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:" (Romans 5:1).

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

And we shall show that Paul was dealing with the Jewish misconceptions of the Law, it purpose and its final result of failing to make anyone through it righteous, or justified. For they held the view that one might, through meritoriously following the law they could place themselves in a position before God wherein they could boast that they had become righteous by their own deeds or works.

We shall demonstrate that James, on the other hand, was dealing with a people who misunderstood justification found in the gospel of Christ. For they had rightly understood that justification was not to be reached by meritorious achievements of their own righteous deeds in keeping the Law of Moses. And they therefore had come to think that justification was a simple matter of merely believing, or having faith in Christ and that it did not matter in the least if they did any works of righteousness in obedience to God. They thought that faith existing alone in their hearts would justify them apart from any works or actions prompted by it. They completely misunderstood justification by faith through obedience to the gospel in much the same way as some men do today. This attitude was in itself an affront to God. It was in essence "antinomianism" or Lawlessness. It was in its very concept a continuation of the same rebellious spirit, which had caused the Law of Moses to be given in the first place, which was because of disobedience. And any doctrine that leads us to expect to be justified without a complete surrender of our rebellious spirit against God by submitting our will entirely in subjection to His is a doctrine of rebellion. Thus, if we desire to be justified" we must first surrender in response to the gospel of Christ being moved by our faith in Him. We must begin a new life in service to Him with a spirit of faithful obedience that ends forever our rebellion against His will. And the beginning of this new life is at the point of our initial faithful submission and obedience to the commands of the gospel. Any person who claims that because he "believes in Christ" he will be saved even if he does not serve and obey Christ is guilty of the very error that James wrote to dispel.

And when we complete this task. We are certain that the unbiased reader and sincere inquirer will be provided with ample evidence that Both Paul and James taught consistently, when touching upon the subject of salvation by faith, the absolute truth that it is by "works a man is justified and NOT BY FAITH ONLY". (James 2:24).

It is our sincere Prayer that you will be edified and come to a greater understanding of justification by faith as a result of our efforts.

For Christ and those who love the truth in Him,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Lee Saffold wrote:

Any person who claims that because he "believes in Christ" he will be saved even if he does not serve and obey Christ is guilty of the very error that James wrote to dispel.

Not to play devil's advocate, but rather peacemaker, because I can see both sides of this argument: Lee, I think everyone on Barry's side of this debate would agree with you one hundred percent on this point. Although they use words like "faith only", I don't think anyone is really saying that all you have to do is believe and then you can sit on your butt or go out and sin all you want and still be saved. They will agree with you that baptism is a commandment of Christ that should and will be obeyed by a true believer, they merely disagree on where it falls in the spectrum of the salvation process. And they would also say, with you, that anyone who behaves as if all they have to do is "believe" and not obey is not truly saved, that such a position is folly. Again, I say that you are both closer on this than either of you realizes, and your disagreement is largely a problem of semantics, a communication gulf.

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

John,

You have said, "Again, I say that you are both closer on this than either of you realizes, and your disagreement is largely a problem of semantics, a communication gulf." I don't think this is the case.... One believes that baptism is essential for salvation... one doesn't.

You also said, "...they merely disagree on where it falls in the spectrum of the salvation process." Can you explain what this "salvation process" is? Can one 'be saved' (have salvation) without COMPLETING the process?? Salvation is a state one arrives at... rather than a process, isn't it? Can one be 'a little bit saved'???

-- Anonymous, July 10, 2001

Brother John:

You have accurately quoted my words as follows:

“Lee Saffold wrote: Any person who claims that because he "believes in Christ" he will be saved even if he does not serve and obey Christ is guilty of the very error that James wrote to dispel.”

Then you say in response:

“Not to play devil's advocate, but rather peacemaker, because I can see both sides of this argument:”

Well, Brother John, you know I have respect for you and love you as a brother in Christ and that you and I have fought so battles together against “British Isrealism” and other false doctrines. And that I greatly appreciate you for such efforts and sincerely expect that we would always stand firm against error when it is being taught. And that no one can condemn the notion of making “peace” and I would not want to ever be opposed to anyone sincerely seeking to make peace. Yet, I am convinced in this case that you are not really understanding both “sides” of this issue nor am I convinced that we can make peace with such a perniciously false doctrine as the false doctrine of “salvation by faith only”. And though peace is a good thing and surely we are commanded to “as much as lieth in us to be at peace with all men”. The scriptures do not teach us to pursue “peace at any price”. For the price of the peace that you seek in this matter is the LOST souls who will be convinced that they can be saved before and completely without obedience to the gospel of Christ. And that price if far too high and it does not really bring the peace that God seeks. You are seeking to make peace with false doctrine. We are seeking to lead men to make PEACE WITH GOD by surrendering their rebellion against God and yielding to Christ as Lord in obedience to the gospel of Christ by faith. And this peace with God comes at the price of total surrender to him in all that he commanded for our salvation. The scriptures do not in any place teach that we are saved by “faith only”. And the scriptures are abundantly clear in teaching that we are NOT SAVED BY FAITH ONLY. For James asked the important question, “What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?” (James 2:14). And his final conclusion or answer to that question was, “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24). But those who teach that we are saved by faith only persist in saying those very words that are without question the direct opposite of God’s words given through James. They cannot bring themselves to say that we are saved by faith. They must say that we are saved by “faith only”. It is that word “only” which they must tag on to what God’s word says that is the issue. And it is clear that what they mean is that a person is saved “the moment that they believe” and before and without “repentance”, (Acts 3:19) and confession of Christ (Romans 10:9,10; Matt. 10:32,33) and baptism (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 1 Peter 3:21; Gal. 3:26,27; John 3:3-5; Titus 3:3-5; Eph. 6:25,26; Heb. 10:22; Acts 22:16; Acts 8:9-40).

Now if you read what they say you will see that they sincerely believe that one can be saved from their sins by faith ONLY without any repentance or confession of Christ. And they are most adamant that one can and will be saved without being baptized for the remission of their sins as Christ commanded us to do (Acts 2:38). Now this should make it abundantly clear to any person who actually understands both sides of this issue that those who teach the false doctrine of salvation by faith only are diametrically opposed to God and his word on this matter. And we are trying to lead them to have peace by being reconciled with Him on this matter. But peace with God cannot be founded on the basis of COMPROMISE. For those who would make peace with God must lay their weapons down and surrender totally and completely to his will and give up their own ways which are counter to his will. So, there is no need for you to seek any “compromise language” in this matter Brother John for it just is not going to happen! And that is the way it is and it will ever be that way until these men yield to God and obey the gospel. And if they fail to do so they will face God in the judgement knowing that when Christ returns he will come in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God and those who obey not the gospel. (2 Thess. 1:8,9). And we are going to remind them of those truths every time they even attempt to teach others their false doctrine of salvation by faith only.

Then you say:

“ Lee, I think everyone on Barry's side of this debate would agree with you one hundred percent on this point.”

Brother John if you have read much of our discussions over the past few months you will find that they have not agreed with what I have about this point even one percent. For they believe that it is impossible for anyone who is outside of Christ to be obedient to Christ. They believe that faith is something that God just gives some people by some miraculous and immediate direct operation of the Holy Spirit on the sinner’s heart. They do not believe that faith is believing in Christ because of the testimony given by the word of God with sufficient strength that they will immediately obey his commands to believe, repent confess and be baptized and continue to obey him throughout life. And if they cease to obey Christ they will be lost. For they believe that one is saved the “moment that they believe” and cannot ever so live as to be eternally lost after that moment! The gap between us on this issue Brother John is as wide as the distance between east and west and between heaven and earth. And I am surprised that one with your ability to reason is blind to that simple and easily understood truth.

Then you say:

“Although they use words like "faith only", I don't think anyone is really saying that all you have to do is believe and then you can sit on your butt or go out and sin all you want and still be saved.”

Now this statement from you, Brother John is clear evidence that you do not understand their position in the least. For they do in fact believe that one is saved the “moment they believe” and that such salvation comes from “FAITH ALONE” without any acts of obedience prompted by faith such as “repentance, confession and baptism”. And they also believe that “once you are so saved you are always saved and cannot so live as to ever lose your salvation or be eternally lost. And all one need do is read their comments on these matters in our discussions over the last several months to see that such is indeed the case.

Then you say:

“They will agree with you that baptism is a commandment of Christ that should and will be obeyed by a true believer, they merely disagree on where it falls in the spectrum of the salvation process.”

Brother John, I have never said that they do not believe that baptism is a command of Christ. But they believe that a person can ignore that command and be saved. Even though they claim that if one is truly saved he will not ignore Christ commands. But the fact is that no one can be saved until they obey Christ commands in response to the gospel. (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38). And they do not believe that baptism falls anywhere along the “spectrum of the salvation process”! For they have stated many times over and over and over again that baptism has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH OUR SALVATION! So, you again demonstrate a complete failure to understand their position. They have repeatedly said that baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation even though Jesus Christ said, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: he that believeth not shall be condemned”. (Mark 16:16) And Peter Said, “the like figure whereunto even baptism doeth also now save us (Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Christ.” (1 Peter 3:21).

Then you say:

“And they would also say, with you, that anyone who behaves as if all they have to do is "believe" and not obey is not truly saved, that such a position is folly.”

But they never say this until they are pressed very hard in the heat of argument and they do so to avoid the truth that they are diametrically opposed to the doctrine of Christ that constantly stresses the importance of obedience to our salvation. For Christ is the author of eternal salvation to them that OBEY HIM. (Heb. 5:8,9). For they will not say with us that if a person does not obey Christ will be lost because he fails to obey Christ. For Christ said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. “ (Matt. 7:21). And He also said, “why call ye me Lord, Lord and do not the things, which I say?” (Luke 6:46).

For they say that once a person is “saved he is always saved” and that baptism, though it is a command of Christ has nothing to do with his salvation. In other words there is a wide difference between those who believes that obedience to the gospel is essential to salvation as the scriptures teach and that without obedience to Christ they will not be saved. (Heb. 5:8,9; 2 Thess. 1:8,9. And those who say that "obedience" is not essential to salvation but "salvation" is essential to obedience. And the difference between those two doctrines is as clearly different as NIGHT AND DAY, darkness and Light and truth and lies! And you should know these things, brother John. Who hath “bewitched you” that you have been so easily deceived about these matters?

Then you say but cannot prove the following:

“Again, I say that you are both closer on this than either of you realizes, and your disagreement is largely a problem of semantics, a communication gulf.”

No, Brother John, there is a “gulf fixed between us in this life and on this issue that is as wide as the gulf that was fixed between the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16: 19-28). And if it is not closed in this life it will be eternally fixed in the next! This is not a “matter of semantics”. The word “semantics” means as you are using it, “the language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings”. God does not use words with “novel or dual meanings” in the gospel of Christ or the doctrine of Christ. But these false teachers who teach “salvation by faith only” are ever using words twisted into double meanings and when you pin them down they cry, “oh, this is just a matter of semantics”. And we expect that from those false teachers, Brother John. But we do not expect such nonsense from a Christian who knows the doctrine of Christ and therefore should know better!

No, Brother John the difference between this Calvinistic doctrine of men taken from their Creeds and the doctrine of Christ in God’s inspired word is as diverse as God and Satan. It is indeed a battle between the servants of God who teach and follow the doctrine of Christ and the servants of Satan who oppose the doctrine of Christ with the cheap, deceptive and counterfeit doctrines of devils.

It is indeed, on occasion, Brother John, very difficult to see the distinct differences between a real twenty-Dollar bill and one that is a counterfeit. But you can rest assured that one who counterfeits the real Twenty Dollar Bill and is caught spending it will go to Jail for having done so not matter how “close" his counterfeit came to the real one, now won’t he. And one could tell the judge all day long that the difference between the two was small and a mere matter of “semantics” or a “gulf in communication” but the judge will not be swayed by such nonsense now will he? And the Judge of all the earth will not be persuaded to accept any counterfeits of the gospel of Christ. For this very reason Paul said to the Galatians, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” (Gal. 1:8,9).

And for that reason, Brother John you will find absolutely no chance to broker a peace where there is not peace. You will not find in faithful Christians the slightest desire to allow you to “broker a compromise” with those who pervert the gospel of Christ. As I used to say in the Navy, “It just ain’t gonna happen”!

For we follow the inspire command of Christ given through our other Brother John who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to say, “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2 John 9-11).

Now, Brother John we will not partake of their EVIL deeds and we urge you to not bid them Godspeed and become a partaker in there evil deeds either.

Your Brother in Christ who loves you,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001