Is it all possible that someday soon we may see a Leica M with aperture priority? If it is something to realistically hope for, would it appear only around Photokina tim

-- Jack Belen (jbelen@aol.com), July 08, 2001

Answers

If you want an aperture priority Leica M get a Konica Hexar RF.

I have used both and I MUCH prefer the Leica M maual mode. For example when shooting in low light with a 35/1.4 lens I set the shutter speed to 1/30 sec. Then I move the aperture ring to get the middle dot to light. This is like "shutter priority". I can't do the same thing with the Hexar RF's "automatic" mode....

-- Mike Foster (mike567@acgecorp.com), July 09, 2001.

This is always rumor no. 1 on the list. If it exists it's either an M6E or an M7.

The real question is: can Leica economical produce two significantly different M-mount cameras at the same time? The last time they tried it (M5/CL) they almost went under, because the CL cannibalized sales away from the unpopularly-sized M5 and neither made a profit.

I think that IF Leica can figure out how to fit an electronic shutter into the existing body they may well produce it, because there will be enough commonality of parts (body shell, rangefinder, wind mechanism) with the regular M6 to keep both economical. But that means they probably can't use a ready-made Copal or Seiko shutter - they will have to build one from scratch to fit in a predetermined space.

Next question: What would you be willing to pay for an auto-shutter M6?

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), July 09, 2001.

"I have used both and I MUCH prefer the Leica M maual mode. For example when shooting in low light with a 35/1.4 lens I set the shutter speed to 1/30 sec. Then I move the aperture ring to get the middle dot to light. This is like "shutter priority". I can't do the same thing with the Hexar RF's "automatic" mode.... "

But presumably you can do it with the Hexar's Manual mode? (RF, I mean).

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), July 09, 2001.

> What would you be willing to pay for an auto-shutter M6?

about $250. it's called a Canon Rebel 2000.

-- daniel taylor (lightsmythe@agalis.net), July 09, 2001.

To me, this is like asking when the Porsche will be manufactured with a trailor hitch. It's just a complete, total, 180 degree, 100% change in the philosophy of the M series Leica. Actually, it was a stretch for Leitz to add the exposure meter, but I gladly accept that because the meter is a useful tool that still allows my being to have 100% total control 100% of the time, always. Like others have stated, if you want a pickup truck, buy a pickup truck. If you want a race car, then, well, get a Leica.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), July 09, 2001.

Tony, surely if you want a race car, you get an EOS 1-V or whatever it's called? ;-)

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), July 09, 2001.

In this month's Australian Camera magazine an interview with Leica CEO Hanns-Peter Cohn (I think that's the spelling?) gave the impression a new M camera would be released in 2002. His comments summarise to Leica producing 2 lines, one that would continue to cater to the "traditionalists" and a modern line. He also showed the journalist priliminary drawings for a digital camera that utilises M mount lens.

-- Simon Wong (drsimonwong@hotmail.com), July 09, 2001.

Rob:

You can do it manually on the Hexar, but IMO it is a real PITA and not worth the effort. On the Hexar, as you turn the aperture ring you try to align a blinking shutter speed digit with a continuously lit one. It is a MUCH simpler and quicker process on the M to center the LED -- again, IMO.

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), July 09, 2001.

Also, after using aperture priority on the Hexar, I'm not even sure I miss it on my M. Furhtermore, the M's metering pattern is a semi-spot and unless they gave it some kind of centerweighting, I'm not sure I'd trust it for AE. AND if they took away the current semi-spot, I think I'd miss it terribly now that I know how to use it so effectively! For me, they'd have to give the new M-AE a selectable metering pattern switch along with the AE --

Of course, then we'd all scream because we'd want a matrix meter in it; and why not shutter priority while you're at it; and oh yeah, higher flash synch; and don't forget faster top shutter speeds; and quicker loading. Hell, why not make it a selectable RF/SLR while your at it! (Oh yeah, they do make the R8!) :-)))

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), July 09, 2001.

Jack is probably right--once Leica starts down the road to automation and battery dependance, where do you stop? How about a built in pop up flash? Yuk, the idea makes me cringe! Seriously, Maybe they could incorporate a new feature like AE exposure without changing too many other intangeable attributes of the Leica M system-and maybe not. What would likely happen is somehow the camera would get bigger, bulkier, more expensive, have more finder flare, etc, and all the same people who have been crying out for a AE version of the M6 would end up finding fault with the new camera and bad mouthing Leica for not producing what they had hoped for. Then they would buy it anyway after the $500 rebate came through.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), July 09, 2001.

About the Manual mode on the Hexar RF:-

I agree with Jack. He describes is perfectly. You have to chase the slowly flashing shutter speed to the lit one. A real pain! Almost unusable! No comparision to the M6's two arrows and a dot in the middle.

It is better to shoot the Hexar RF in Auto Aperture Priority because of this poor manual mode.

-- Mike Foster (mike567@acgecorp.com), July 09, 2001.

The procedure you describe is exactly the same as manual mode on an R4,R5,RE. I always have the Hexar set on AE-L(lock). You aim the center at whatever you want to meter, press the shutter halfway to hold the reading, then recompose and shoot. Same thing you need to do with an M except without fiddling with shutter dial and aperture. Also, the stepless shutter and aperture-priority allows you to predetermine the DOF and stick with it, or select a lens' "best" aperture (like f/5.6 on the 15 Heliar!). Since the M6's shutter only goes in full stops many times as the light changes you need to adjust both shutter and aperture, even if only a half stop.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), July 09, 2001.

The nice thing about the blinken shutter speeds is that it is easy to do "zone system" type adjustments with it. Want to be exposing two or three stops over 18% gray? Easy. With the Leica, you have to center the meter and then count stops back.

Of course, the exposure lock, apeture priority and exposure compensation give you finer control over this.

-- Pete Su (psu_13@yahoo.com), July 09, 2001.

Over and Under exposing the film from the meter reading doesn't make it "Zone System."

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), July 09, 2001.

Oh come on Bill, give him a break! After all, exposure selection IS the first -- and many would argue the most important -- step in the zone system process.

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), July 10, 2001.

The Minolta CLE has aperture priority auto, I wouldnt part with it for anything. Minolta electronics were good enough for the R's series so there good enough for me. I dont have any acuracy problems, in fact this thing is so acurate it can adjust the shutter duration while the picture is being taken! The whole battery thing is the most overstated quality of Leica cameras I read on these pages. These cameras have battery checks, you use them before you go on picture taking sessions, and guess what, I have NEVER had the camera stop working. MS76 Batteries are so small there is always a spare pair in my camera bag, just like I keep a spare for my Leica CL in case its battery goes flat and its mechanical. I dare say that M6 users do the same to keep the meters running all the time too, so whats the difference? The 'cant shoot without battery' excuse seems mainly empty retoric for Leica owners to substanciate Leica's lack of modern electronic technologies. I bet if Leica produced a M series with aperture priority that sales would certainly increase not decline.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), July 10, 2001.

Jack is absolutely right. If they want accuracy in aperture priority mode they must change the metering system of Ms. Personally I am not interesting in an auto Leica M. I bought M6 because it is manual and reliable. Perhaps I would buy a revised CL/CLE but only for its size!

Street Photography by Dimitris Kioseoglou

-- Dimitris Kioseoglou (kosefoto@otenet.gr), July 10, 2001.

By the way I am waiting for a new fully manual M3 with the metering system of M6 for my excellent Summicron-M 50/2! Something like M6J but in a reasonable price!

Street Photography by Dimitris Kioseoglou

-- Dimitris Kioseoglou (kosefoto@otenet.gr), July 10, 2001.

The M shutter is unique and the most important attribute of the M camera after the viewfinder/rf. In fact one could argue it is the most important characteristic as the v/f have changed over the years. Leica changes it at their peril. It is a classic - quiet and incredibly reliable and long lived - why change it? If you want an auto camera get a Konica or even a Contax G2. Not all changes are improvements....

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), July 20, 2001.

I don't think Leica will ever REPLACE the mechanical M shutter with a electronic one (nor do we want them to, I'm sure) - the question is, can they produce an aperture-priority camera in ADDITION to the mechanical one, and still sell enough of each to show a profit.

My point was simply that IF they can do it using most of the existing structure, it will be cheaper and more likely to ensure the continued production of parts for both 'E' and M shutters than, say, producing a "Leica" version of the Hexar RF which implies a whole new set of parts to warehouse for future repairs.

The same with a "digital' M. A whole new body with only a lens-mount in common with the M6 would require a lot of extra costly design, manufacturing and parts storage and cataloging. If they do make a digital, my bet is that it will be a nice cast-zinc (or whatever they are now) M6 body with the chip and electronics fitted into the existing shutter-box and swing-open back, and perhaps with a motor- sized extension to the bottom for batteries and stoarge media.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), July 23, 2001.

Just heard the new M6 with aperture priority shutter will be out soon.

-- Almo (Almo@jps.net), October 09, 2001.