Ciara/Syme, I was reading your postings on another thread with great interest, paticulary the information that basketball enrollment was down 28% due to the kids demand for footbaa. DC United were mentioned quite a lot, so tell me if I have read this right. Did they play Colarado Rapids other night, Carlos Valderama debut game ? at Denver, losing I think 3-0 , a hat trick from ex Chelsea/Rangers/Motherwell forward wee John Spencer ?. The point is what took my eye was the attendance at Denver, 65.000 , is that correct? if it is -:

My forcast a couple of years ago on this forum , backed by some others not so sure , and some just plainly dismissive, I said that by 2005 Australia would be a force in World Cup Football , confident on that score, going according to plan, I also stated that the U.S.A would be 5 years behind in the achievment stakes, am I still on course for my prediction ? , the size of the crowd if correct to watch CR has given me great encouragement along with other postings from you.

Floridean may have different views on the commercial side of our great game taking a firm hold over there , personally I think the time has come to give the has been stars playing out their time over there and bring on the native reared talent. Very interested.

-- Anonymous, July 07, 2001

Answers

American Pie

-- Anonymous, July 07, 2001

Buff, I always felt that Sah-cur could be big in the US but was still likely to lag behind the other major games. Until the kids at school decide there is money to be made, the top up and coming athletes will be picked up by the hockey, baseball, basketball and football teams.

There is a ground-swell tho. Indeed, last night while waiting to meet Syme at Chicago airport, I overheard a conversation in a shop between the manager and a customer. Basicaaly about junior sah-cur, but it confirmed my thoughts - the majority of interest over here seems to be in the girls'/women's game. I reckon a few of our ex-players could fit in well with that ;-)

However, if the US does get behind sah-cur, I suspect they could become a major force in world footie. But I think it is still likely to be some time.

-- Anonymous, July 07, 2001

Cheers for reply Screach, Man you spend more time in the air than Wyn Davis. Have a nice day ya`ll

-- Anonymous, July 07, 2001

The prime motivation of the networks is to make money, most of which is derived from advertising -- at the last superbowl I believe it cost 2 mill dollars for a 30 sec spot. Popular sporting activities shown on TV are arranged to provide ample intervals for advertising. Soccer does not lend itself to such breaks in continuity, although if it can be done our American friends will find a way. The popularity of the game as I said a few weeks ago is growing leaps and bounds. The older generations are still hooked on fast moving, violent games, baseball excepted. But I can see the day when soccer on tv will be in demand but not yet. But there are millions of youngsters playing the game now -- and sometime -- not too far away the US will be a force. Even in the last few years tremendous progress has been made.

-- Anonymous, July 07, 2001

Don't think it's likely to happen. There are too many alternatives here for football to become a major sport. There are three major sports here that have a stranglehold on kids, on tv, and on fan interest. And that doesn't even count hockey, which is a fourth major sport in some parts of the country. It's seen as a great sport for kids - both girls and boys - because it's relatively cheap to administer and is great for teaching teamwork and getting suburban kids some exercise, and therefore there's a lot of money in kid's soccer. But the great atheletes here don't play football - they play basketball or american football, because that's where the money is.

-- Anonymous, July 07, 2001

I am encouraged by Florideans reply , can you tell me the difference in wealth between Man Utd and a leading grid- iron outfit ?

Southpaw again thanks, your reply has got the pot boiling at work with my colleagues, we realise that we are pretty much in the dark here so here are a few random comments that were uttered , may be true , may be hearsay, who am I to know, (a) At the age of 11 there is a filtering system in schools on the States, ie you are too short for basketball, find another sport (b) Too light for grid - fas and soforth, (c) Just as many people in the states speak Spanish and with the natural Hispanic love for the game , it will be natural in years to come that they will want a higher level. (d) If the interest and groundswell is in place now at kids level, it is a natural progression for football to prosper in the future. (e) Already an international force, have been for over 20 years since they gubbed England (Scots Nat)

I would class Athletics and Football as purely world games , The Olympics and The World Cup are prestigious events, combining nations from all cultures. Baseball, Basketball, American Football out of the confines of the USA are not seen as major sports, You my friends know more than I about the mentality of the average American , personally I am of the opinion that the majority are not interested in the rest of the world and are happy within themselves. At this early stage I am thinking that there are three options open to further the great game in the States, one being business and the networks although the game does not lend itself to advertising revenue as Floridean points out, I do not know what if anything your Govt can do, the final push itself I feel will come from the kids now playing , amongst the vast numbers I am sure that a firm nucleus of business people will emerge, who will although not good enough to play professionally will retain a passion for the game , and then its back to making money which seems to be the major sticking point.

-- Anonymous, July 07, 2001

You've got it in one re the average American mentality, Buff.

And yes, JOhn Spencer of CO is Scottish. Haven't heard anything else about his background over here though. One notable movement in MLS this season does seem to be the breakthrough of a large number of young players. For once we seem to have more younger ones coming in and making names for themselves which has seemed to stem the tide of brining in older overseas players looking to end their careers with a stroll and easy payday in the US. It is definitely making for a better league, and also vastly improving the national team. OF course the kids going to the games will also be encouraged by seeing players not so much older than them out there. They see that it is possible to make a career playing soccer.

Oddly enough a few weeks ago when we played Costa Rica, CR had 5 or 6 MLS players in their squad, as did the US. The rest of the US squad was made up of European-based players. We've been doing very well in qualifying, but in Mexico recently also showed we still have a lot of work to do. So yes, Buff, I think you're still on the right track in predicting world success for the US. Not sure how we'll do in the WC next summer. We shouldn't be as embarrassing as last time, but I'd be surprised if we get beyond the quarter finals. Just getting to the QF would probably be considered successful. ;-)

As for working in commercial breaks, I can't see that happening. Though they do manage to throw up enough graphics and mentions of products during matches to drive you to distraction! The soccer purists in this country are extremely vocal and would go nuts at the mere suggestion of stopping the game. It was a big victory to finally convince the league to drop the hated shootout as a way of deciding games. It took about 4 years, but the league finally realized that Americans really are capable of understanding the game (and results) as it's done in the rest of the world. Plus the non-stop action is one of the biggest attractions for most people I've talked to that discovered the sport as adults. It's what makes soccer so different from anything else over here. :-)

There's also quite a bit of grassroots efforts to get advertisers and networks to start taking it seriously. Email campaigns to get highlights shown on sports shows, and just to thank networks for showing games. It has encouraged ESPN/ABC to show more matches than ever before. Slowly, but surely...... :-)

-- Anonymous, July 07, 2001

Cheers pet , the words I take out of your post are the last three, `slowly but surely`, Did ask tho in my roundabout way was 65.000 the norm for Colorado Rapids? or was this boosted by the debut of the Ginger Columbian?

-- Anonymous, July 07, 2001

for my sins I travel to the USA about two or three times a month at the moment and what is noticeable is that when you fly into any airport Chicago, Dallas, Orlando, Miami, New York (all three), San Francisco, Washington and LA is all of the soccer pitches which have become increasingly apparent over the last two years or so even to the extent that where there are baseball diamonds in parks or schools those diaminds are having to give over turf to soccer pitches and are having to share space or even be squeezed out....

This is noticeable when you are in the approach to landing for about the last five miles or so and my scientific (!!!!!!) analysis is that soccer is at last starting to take-off and it will soon move into a very well structured professional sport soon as soon as the USA kids come through rather than the has-been pros....

-- Anonymous, July 08, 2001

Ciara said - "For once we seem to have more younger ones (ie. players) coming in and making names for themselves which has seemed to stem the tide of bringing in older overseas players looking to end their careers with a stroll and easy payday. It is definitely making for a better league, and also vastly improving the national team".

Anyone notice any parallels there that we could perhaps learn from in the home of 'soccer'?

-- Anonymous, July 08, 2001

Sorry, Buff, dunno the answer to teh CO attendance. I doubt they regularly get 65,000. I don't know of any team (male or female) capable of that on a regular basis. That could well have been partly due to Valderrama. He was a shock transfer. Well, it sure shocked those of us when the Rapids walked past in the halls under RFK a few days earlier. Found out later he'd only transfered the day before, along with 2 other players. It was a funny moment actually because the players all had their game faces on as they headed for the tunnel, and the staff were all whispering to each other "When did HE move there?", "and HIM", "Wait...HE moved too? Eh??". Have I mentioned how poor footy coverage is over here? ;-)

Last I heard, average attendances around MLS are around the 15,000 mark. WUSA has set a target of 6,000 avg for their first season. The biggest attendances are usually when there's a double-header featuring an international match-up. Or when a team gets to the play-offs, or has a big signing.

BTW Roly, interesting observation. I had no idea. Certainly sounds promising for the future of the game here! Additonally, LA is planning to build the country's second purpose-built soccer stadium. Columbus having the first, which has been a resounding success. :-)

-- Anonymous, July 08, 2001

Footy is taking off in a big way over here, it's not being noticed right now because the majority of people playing are still in school. Football fields are everywhere, beautiful flat pitches with grass on 'em. I remember playing footy for my school back in Newcastle that hadn't seen grass in years, on the side of a hill!! Last year a second teams of mexico and argentina played in front of 75000 in chicago.

I think the average attendance for the chicago fire is about 19000, not bad considering they they share the city with 6 other professional teams.

-- Anonymous, July 09, 2001

What about a Tivo-like broadcast? Fox could show the first 10 minutes and then break for 2 minutes, then show the next 10 minutes from the point they broke? The match would extend to about an average NBA game (2:20-2:30) and nobody here would care about integrity issues because it just doesn't matter yet.

-- Anonymous, July 09, 2001

While we're on the subject, let me ask my annual ch5/MLS question- do we have any closet MLS observers on here?

-- Anonymous, July 09, 2001

nobody here would care about integrity issues because it just doesn't matter yet.

You've already forgotten the 'Ban the Shootout' campaign? Can't see them ever introducing stoppages for commercial breaks. As it is, we get very little half-time analysis because they spend most of that time showing commercials.

Actually I wouldn't mind if they'd introduce some of the drugged-out animations Univision uses at the bottom of the screen. Kinda cute, and definitely attention getting, without being overly annoying.

-- Anonymous, July 09, 2001