Hi, Can anyone tell me which lenses are considered lengendary and unsurpassed in performance in Leica's current M-mount lineup?

Jack

-- Jack (jack1@earthlink.net), July 06, 2001

Answers

All the current summicrons, all the current elmarits,the 75mm summilux and the 135 apo. Up to 11/14, and all things being equal, it is hard to see any difference in resolution between current leica lenses of the same focal length. To see a difference, you need a slow film and a tripod. Since most Leica M users, including me, do not use a tripod, the difference is irrelevant.

-- pedro lastra (plastra@bellsouth.net), July 06, 2001.

"Legendary" and "current" both together kind of threw me off. There isn't a lens in the current line that isn't at or near the top of its class. That would include the 21, 24, 28 f2.0, 35 f1.4 and 2.0, 50mm f1.0, 1.4, and 2.0, 75 f1.4, 90mm f2.0 and 2.8 , and 135mm f3.4.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), July 06, 2001.

Focal length for focal length, I believe that none of the current Leica lenses is surpassed in price, which is legendary.

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), July 06, 2001.

Nikon lovers discuss which lenses are "killers" and which are "dogs". Even Hasselblad lovers bicker over T* vs non-T* and FLE vs non-FLE, in terms of good and bad. Only Leica lovers discuss which generation of each lens is more superlative than another.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), July 06, 2001.

What are you going to shoot? Sharpness might be one thing that is "unsurpassed" in the new lenses, but there are intangibles that don't show up on MTF graphs. My 90mm Elmarit M is simply too sharp for close-up portraits of the woman in my age group, so would it make sense to "upgrade" to the optically superior 90mm APO / Asph Summicron? Superior doesn't always mean better depending on the intended use.

Some of the photos submitted on this forum are being produced with lenses written off as obsolete by the "new is better" crowd, (look at the terrific shots that Mike Dixon has presented made with very old 50mm and 90mm Summicrons). Everything is subjective about words like "unsurpassed" and "legendary." All of my lenses were "the best" 20 years ago, and they still keep on giving me great images, so I think I'll keep them. They may have been surpassed (on-paper), but they're still legendary.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), July 06, 2001.

"Legendary" may not equal "unsurpassed in performance". Legendary Leica lenses outside the current generation include the 21/3.4 Super-Angulon, the 50/2.0 Dual-Range Summicron, the first 50/2.0 Rigid Summicron, the fourth version 35/2.0 Summicron (the pre-Asph that people talk about so much) and the 90/2.8 fat Tele-Elmarit.

I'd consider the "legendary" lenses from the current generation to include the 21/2.8, the 24/2.8 the 35/1.4, the 50/1.0 and 50/2.0, the 75/1.4 the 90/2.8 and the 90/2.0AA. To be considered a legend, a lens has to be not only very good, but also widely used. This latter is th only thing standing in the way of lenses like the 28/2.0 and the 135/3.4 which are at the pinnacle of 35mm optical excellence, but not widely used. Of course the 50/1.0 isn't widely used either, but it's just such an outrageous lens that its status was assured when the first glass hit the molds.

-- Paul Chefurka (chefurka@home.com), July 06, 2001.

I consider only 14 of the current M lenses to be unsurpassed, each within its particular specialty and purpose. Maybe you can figue out which 14.

I also consider a number of older lenses unsurpassed, too, for their ability to render a softer image, when called for. Happily, Leica is unique in its long heriage of tools to choose from, that are forward and backward compatible, unsurpassed for individuals according to his/her own standards.

-- Ken Shipman (kennyshipman@aol.com), July 06, 2001.

Hello Jack,

Sitting here in front of me is the reason I have a Leica Camera and lens. I was browsing through some books in the public library and happened across "Eisenstaedt's Guide to Photography." c1978 I found my copy in a used book store the other day. The minute I saw his pictures I wanted a Leica.

Alfred Eisenstaedt is, of course, a legend. In this book are countless examples of his work taken with the 35mm Leica lens. He used a Nikon F and other Leica lenses to be sure. Yet the 35 is his confessed favorite. "I find the 35-mm lens best suited for the majority of pictures that I take."

From Jackie O to the Tah Mahal AE defines legendary with this 35mm Leica lens.

-- David S Smith (dssmith3@rmci.net), July 06, 2001.

Summicron 50, Summilux 35, 50 Telyt-180 are legendary lenses, designed by legendary Walter Mandler, who put Leitz into the forefront of lens design

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), July 07, 2001.

Summar 50

-- Simon Wong (drsimonwong@hotmail.com), July 07, 2001.

Legends are good and bad. In my opinion the greatest legendary lens was the 50mm Summar. Brand new, unscratched, and un poilished (user polishing) it will match a Summicron. Front element haze affects the image in most versions you can find now but it was the lens that really gave Leica lenses that extra something.

-- Anthony Brokes (gdz00@lineone.net), July 07, 2001.

Erwin Puts on the three generations of Leica lens design. Fairly new article.

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/magazine/threegen.html

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), July 07, 2001.

Elmar 50/3.5, can be the first legendaty lens, is the lens on wich all leica quality is well founded, also the summicrons 25 years latter, and the rest of them for particular reasons.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), July 07, 2001.

Excerpt from Alfred Breull's Leica Diary:

The story ...

Leica didn't have the funds in the 1920's and 1930's to design lenses which would blow the doors off of Zeiss and Voigtlander products - they were, after all, the 'new kids' on the block, a small microscope works which had moved only lately into photography.

Their lens designer, Max Berek, used a trick to make Leica lenses 'seem' to perform better than they actually do, by emphasizing out-of-focus softness. Thus, the in-focus portion of the image pops out at the viewer, producing the 'Leica glow', as Gianni Rogliatti calls it.

This was seen as a cheap trick by the larger houses, but it built a foundation for the magical effect of Leica lenses. And it also explains why older designs do not test well, but produce images which stand out from those of other houses.

This changed following Berek's death in the early 1950's. Certainly, Leica lenses produced today test competitively and, in many cases, blow the competition away. But such was not always the case - and the Leica 'glow' of 1930 has become the 'bokeh' of today.

... and additional information

Actually, the Summar shows a very high resolution (but low contrast) in high-end tests. And, even in today, it belongs to the small group of Leitz and Leica lenses with the most beautiful rendition (up to f 4.5).

Other characteristics: corners are dark at f 2.0, no increase in performance above f 6.3, low or moderate color saturation, little shadow details, over-pronounciation of bright parts, hood required in sun shine pictures. Also, its front element is rather soft - most Summars show serious marks and signs from cleanings.

Cheers.

link: http://members.aol.com/abreull/index.htm

-- Simon Wong (drsimonwong@hotmail.com), July 07, 2001.

According to the dictionary, a legend is a story which is handed down and retold, and generally accepted as true, even if it isn't. Like Paul Bunyan. I wonder which Leica lenses come to mind from this point of view? Like maybe a belief that the pre-war Elmar is still better than anything made since. You know, the old they-don't-make- em-like-they-usta thing. At any rate, I guess the current lenses haven't been around long enough to become legends. A contradiction in terms, you might say.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), July 08, 2001.

I think Bob has hit the proverbial nail on the head.

-- Simon Wong (drsimonwong@hotmail.com), July 08, 2001.

I would equate "legendary" in this case to those well-know photogs who have used Leica M's and its lenses. They all have their favorite lenses: Eisenstaedt and D.A. Harvey with the 35mm, and H. Cartier- Bresson with the 50mm. Which lens version? It doesn't really matter since they didn't seem to place too much emphasis on that matter anyways.

-- Ron Gregorio (rongregorio@hotmail.com), July 11, 2001.

Legendary, that is a tough one. I suggest the 50mm 3.5 Elmar, the 50mm Summicron, the 100 Macro-Elmarit-R, and the 180 f3.4 Apo Telyt-R. All of these lenses are talked about with reverence. Some of the modern M and R lenses may well become legends but are probably not yet - the Summilux-Asph 35mm comes to mind.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), July 20, 2001.