Mr. Tuna, I feel your pain!

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Unk's Wild Wild West : One Thread

Great piece by Rick Reilly, Sports Illustrated.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) has new billboards out that claim fishing is cruel. I totally agree. The last time I went, all I caught was a sunburn, three hooks in the back of my thigh and hell from my pals for forgetting the Off.

Unfortunately, this is not what PETA means. PETA means fishing is cruel to the fish. Seriously. PETA plans to put up billboards across the U.S. and in Canada that show a Labrador retriever with a hook in his bloody lip. IF YOU WOULDN'T DO IT TO A DOG, the signs say, WHY DO IT TO A FISH?

And, of course, the answer is: Because fish do not bring me my slippers.

Look, I wailed for the whales. I fumed over fur. I emotionally clubbed myself over the baby seals. But I'll be damned if I'm going to weep over a walleye.

PETA says fish feel pain and that to snag one with a steel hook, drag it along for 50 yards or so and then haul it out of the water so it suffocates is sick. "Why do we throw a Frisbee to some animals and a barbed hook to others?" PETA asks on its website.

And, of course, the answer is: Because fish really suck at catching Frisbees.

PETA thinks it's evil to eat fish, too. But why should we stop eating them when they eat each other? Besides, they had their chance to evolve. They could've crawled out of the primordial ooze with us, but they didn't. They decided to stay behind and swim in the water they pee in and go around never blinking. When fish lift their scaly butts past us in the food chain, they can eat us. Until then, pass the tartar sauce.

PETA even says catch-and-release is cruel. They say the harm and stress caused by being caught and released is sometimes enough to kill the fish later on. As if the fish go straight into therapy after being caught.

Fish: I'm telling you, Doc, I was just minding my own business when I got hauled into the sky, examined by some weird beings and then thrown back!

Fish psychiatrist: Lemme guess. A UFO, right?

I mean, what's PETA going to do? You'll be sitting at the counter in the deli, and suddenly, the PETA police will come running in, shouting, "All right, back away from the tuna melt and nobody gets hurt!" My God, we're talking about fish here. Fish have a brain the size of a corn kernel.

Professor James Rose, a University of Wyoming neuroscientist, studied fish for years and determined that they lack a neocortex (parts of which process the brain's response to pain), much like Cubs fans. Besides, if fish are so smart, why can you catch a fish, throw it back and then, two hours later, catch the same fish? I mean, do you really want to save something dumber than Robert Downey Jr.?

Didn't Jesus fish? He seemed like a pretty sensitive guy. When He zapped up all those fishes for 5,000 people, what do you think He did with them, throw them back?

I know, I know -- I hate hunting. But sitting in the back of a pickup, taking a rifle with an infrared scope and killing a deer from 1,000 yards away is not nearly the same thing as standing up to your spleen in icy rushing river water, trying to cast the perfectly tied fly into the perfect eddy to catch a rainbow trout. Is it our fault that the trout falls for it? Tell you what: I will get behind hunting when hunters come up with a shoot-and-release program.

Why does PETA stop at fish? Where does PETA stand on the plight of the worm? And plankton? And the 1,000,000 micro-organisms that are crushed by your boots every time you go on a nature hike? Have these PETA vegetarians ever gotten close to a broccoli to hear its screams as it's violently yanked from its birthplace and boiled to death?

Fishing is cruel? I always thought fishing was one of the most peaceful things you could do. What are fathers and sons supposed to do together, knit sweaters out of each other's navel lint? What are we supposed to read, Hemingway's Old Man and the Parking Lot?

I'll tell you one thing. Before I agree to this whole fish-human truce, somebody had better have a long face-to-face with the sharks about it. I say we send a bunch of PETA members down right away.



-- So (cr@t.es), July 05, 2001

Answers

There is a world of difference between the sensible idea that it is not good to cause animals needless pain and the idea that animals are exempt from human interference.

Animals themselves do not act in a way PETA would find ethical. Just two days ago I saw an osprey catch a fish in its talons and fly up to a tree where it clearly planned to rip it apart and eat the quivering flesh. Where does PETA stand on intra-animal cruelty?

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), July 05, 2001.


So:

The real point is; what kind of animals are we. Let's take one case.

We capture and form an organism. We raise it in large numbers just to eat its unborn young. Disgusting.

Then nobody gives a shit about wheat.

Noone

-- Noone (Noone@nowhere.xyz), July 05, 2001.


Humorous article, Soc. I REALLY enjoyed fishing during the years I engaged. I even had dreams of the bobber going under the water. Of course I'm a Hannibal Lecter type of person. I've never met anyone who was a PETA member. Even the supposed vegetarians I know eat fish.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 05, 2001.

ROTFLMAO! Only one thing in this article I'd question: Are you sure the fish are dumber than Robert Downey, Jr.?

-- (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), July 05, 2001.


Question Soc...

If you were to see someone stomping a fish to death with their shoe, (I have seen this) would this bother you?

Also, I remember some fishing boats, forget the ones, that were cutting the dorsal fins off of sharks and then throwing them back in to die slowly. Does this bother you and if so,why?

Where exactly does one draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable death?

-- (cin@cin.cin), July 05, 2001.



Good questions cin!

I’d like to go on record that I am violently opposed to fish stomping and fin hacking of any kind.

I’m an ‘eat what you keep’ sort of guy and 80% of my ocean catches swim away to see another day. They get a hell of a lot more respect from me then from their fellow swimmers.

Unfortunately, during my 3 years of residence down at beach row, I knew of some commercial fishermen out of DP that did ugly things to their catches.

But I’m a sportsman whereas they were in it strictly for the money. No excuses, just the way it is.

BTW, is there anything tastier than smoked Albacore? Yum!

-- So (cr@t.es), July 05, 2001.


Salmon maybe but albacore would be just fine!

cin, eating what I shoot or catch isn't really a concern. That the big "we" harvest the oceans to the point of lifelessness is only a problem because their are too damned many of us.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), July 06, 2001.


RAISE YOUR OWN FOOD,CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), July 06, 2001.

Cin,

The person you saw stomping on the fish....

What kind of fish was it? If it was a catfish it might have needed stompin', it is a common thing to do to stun them, (so you can put them on a stringer or in a live well)lord knows that wouldn't kill'em.

And if that catfish had just finned the poor bugger you could understand why that catfish got his ass kicked.

Or were they just stompin' Japanese goldfish for shits and giggles?

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), July 06, 2001.


Say ah, Al old buddy……how’s them dogs?

-- So (cr@t.es), July 06, 2001.


No ocean fish can compare to the fresh water species mentioned in this article - Walleye. It is flakey, light, almost buttery in taste. The best tasting fish in the world, in my opinion. When fresh, fried up on the shore right after catching, it's a piece of heaven.

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), July 06, 2001.

Good mornin Cap

um...this was on the san clemente pier several years ago, they were some older teens and probably a mackerel. There was no reason for it, shits and giggles maybe. yknow, like boswell and his frogs, ack. It was disturbing, I said something to them and they stopped and looked embarassed.

And Cap, if someone had a hook through your mouth and was pulling you to your certain death, you'd probably fin them too. It's instinct to fight for survival. =)

-- (cin@cin.cin), July 06, 2001.


Hard to argue with that Bemused. I grew up in Michigan fishin’ for Walleye with my Granddaddy. Freshly pan-fried in butter, those little fighters sure are tasty. As a matter of fact, I’m having dinner tonight at a local seafood joint that serves fresh Walleye………I can taste it now!

-- So (cr@t.es), July 06, 2001.

Better not come to my house if you side with PETA on this one.

We steam live crabs and lobsters quite often.

Yum.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), July 06, 2001.


Do you dip them in hot melted butter, Buddy? We spent a lot of time on the East Coast when my kids were young. I really enjoy lobster, but the lobster huts on the beaches didn't give me any hot melted butter for dipping. It just wasn't the same without the butter. In fact, I sometimes wonder if I enjoy lobster or simply use it as a vehicle to obtain hot melted butter.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 06, 2001.


LOL anita!

-- (cin@cin.cin), July 06, 2001.

Add enough garlic to that butter Anita and a person could make damned near anything taste good. You're right though. "Butter" that's half veggie oil ain't butter and butter is better!

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), July 07, 2001.

Where exactly does one draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable death?

-- (cin@cin.cin), July 05, 2001

maybe at the abortion clinic, you think????

-- peta sucks (Nunya@business.com), July 08, 2001.


um you really dont want to get me going on this but...no abortion is NOT an acceptable death. Just because I'm from CA doesn't mean I advocate murdering unborn children. Do your homework next time.

-- (cin@cin.cin), July 08, 2001.

Sorry for the confusion cin, but I thought the name tag said it all with *peta sucks*. You just happened to provide the perfect quote that I could use on one of the many groups of eco terrorist that look to devalue human life in any way possible, you know, be a hero, save a whale.... save a baby, go to jail. When groups place esoteric concerns over those facing the human race, I have very little... respect for those groups and peta ranks right up there. FWIW, I belong to the real PETA, People Eating Tasty Animals!!!!

-- peta sucks (Nunya@Business.com), July 09, 2001.

I still want to know if folks on the East Coast typically eat their lobster DRY or if they dip it in SOMETHING [anything.]

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 09, 2001.

Anita

Rest assured that every lobster or crab dinner I've ever eaten have always come with melted butter. I can't imagine what they taste like without it!!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 09, 2001.


(I'm afraid I don’t have time to read all the other replies, so apologies if I’m reiterating s/o else’s point here...)

-All forms of entertainment which call for animal suffering should be banned, *not simply for the sake of animal suffering*, but for the sake of humanity. We are right to be proud to be top of the food chain, an advanced life form, most intelligent on the planet. We can be proud that we are able to deal with complex concepts such as *compassion* and have understand that just because we have the might we do not have the right to abuse other creatures. We are the only species (as far a we know), which has developed ethics. By denying this capability we are insulting humanity, denying our own humanity, even- because what else makes us any better than other creatures? As the dominant species we have a duty to all others. It is this acceptance of behaviour and thinking below humanities ability, status and feeling which I find disgusting in people who tolerate blood sports such as fishing.

- I have never heard of James Rose and don’t know about his work, but all the other research clearly indicated fish do have the capacity for pain.

-I would like to point out that both sport fishing and fishing for food are needlessly cruel (I wont go into detail why here). I have no ethical issues with the eating of fish that have been farmed, and humane fish farms are perfectly possible.

-We know that plankton, plants and microorganisms simply do not have the mechanisms or capacity for pain. No one would logically suggest we worry about their suffering. To put this into your argument mocks and trivialises the serious attempts of animal rights campaigners to be taken seriously.

-Perhaps in this article the writer was simply ‘playing devil’s advocate’ (I doubt it). Or more likely they were trying to get a laugh by criticising a moral argument they know a number of ill- informed people will also perceive dubious. Either way it is highly irresponsible. The campaign for animal rights does not need this kind of trivialisation.

Please, anyone, don’t hesitate to email me about any of the points raised, like i say, i'm pushed for time, perhaps this needs clarifying. And if you’re planning on going fishing soon, please don’t.

-- stavros74 (stavros74@elvislives.co.uk), October 11, 2001.


ElvisLives? The fish should select their lobbyists more carefully. Hook em’ Dano.

-- So (cr@t.es), October 11, 2001.

Actually, idiot, all life forms must have a brain-like structure, or else they can't live. This goes for microorganisms, as well as plants.

The most conductive chemicals in the organism group together to form "the brain", a structure corresponding with the brain in humans.

Since this brain is involved in all life processes that go on in the organism, anything that happens to the organism affects the "brain".

This shows that all forms of life - from the tiniest microorganism you have killed last time you showered, the beans you had last weak, to humans you keep harrassing with your PETA trash - feel pain.

In addition, according to my information, there will be a huge nuclear war in year 2006, involving the USA; and here you are getting all heated over fish. You have to get your priorities straight, motherflowers.

-- Cristal White (isis_nile@go.com), December 13, 2002.


In addition, according to my information, there will be a huge nuclear war in year 2006

Cristal,

Alert the president, post haste. I'm sure your inside knowledge would be most welcome.

Here you know about a future lifechanging event before it even happens and what? You are worried about whether or not the worm I stepped on today feels pain?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeeD@yahoo.com), December 14, 2002.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ