Dear Forum:

Very often, I scratch my head pondering which 50mm M lens to buy. There are many choices, and I slowly evaluate the cost-benefit of each alternatives. Perhaps the forum can help, of course it will.

I have been a 50mm user for all my 3-years photographic journey with the Canon EOS. It is my favorite focal length. But surprisingly, it is not the first lens with my M6. You have guessed it, I got the 35summicron pre-asph. This turns out to be a good choice, as I begin to appreciate the 35mm, which I once considered as a cheap P&S focal length for mindless shooting. Secondly, it gives me time to think about which 50 to get.

The 50summicron is obviously a very sensible choice, as it is lightweight, sharp, and budgetable. No regrets if bought, I can tell without actually bought it.

The Noctilux is the tempting evil that kills many braincells of mine. The first thing to notice is that Leica did not put a Leica premium on the price, which is comparable to the sub-par-performance Canon EOS equivalent. I have never used an f/1 lens before and I dream that it might give me new excitment for my favorite focal length. There is also a good chance that the f/1 is not that exciting, while the size and weight corrupt the purpose of using Leica in the first place.

Summilux is something in between but overpriced IMHO. Surprise, I like the Elmar too. Whatelse are to like about it other than its collapsed size? I am sure that I won't complain about its sharpness for not being good enough for my amateur-level photographs.

I like the discussions in this forum. Many thanks.

-- Jackson Loi (jsloi@hotmail.com), June 27, 2001

Answers

50mm Summicron is the lens I take most of my Leica photos with. I shoot with an M3 however, which is an ideal 50mm camera due to the .91 viewfinder mag. The Elmar isn't much more compact than the Summicron, and it is not much less expensive. I shoot probably 1/3 of the time at f2.0 when using my 50 Summicron, and would miss the very sharp wide open performance of that lens. Leica has a big rebate on the lenses right now, making a new 50mm f2.0 very reasonably priced by Leica standards.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), June 27, 2001.

Well maybe I should wait for some ´noctilux or elmar´s defenders to come in, any way, I like my latest ´cron, it is small, easy to handle and gives beautifull images wide open, but only goes to f/2, the ´lux has the 1.4 option but not as good as the ´cron at f/2, the elmar I´ve read is very soft wich can also be a reason to chosse it, the noctilux is a very specialiced lens; I mean you must need f/1 often to worth carring it, it must make leica heavy.I still like the summilux and the latest is just beautifull, if it just would equal the f/2 quality of the ´cron, would be my choice. My two cents.

-- r watson (AL1231234@HOTMAIL.COM), June 27, 2001.

The 50mm end of the Tri-Elmar is as good as a current 50/2 at f/4 onward, and better than the predecessor (I have all 3 lenses, I've tested them a lot). The 35mm setting on the Tri-Elmar is as good as the 35/2 pre-ASPH from f/4. Plus, you've got 28mm if/when needed. The DOF at f/1.4 or f/1 with a 50mm lens is exceedingly shallow especially at closer distances, and it is something you have to have a very vivid imagination to deal with using a rangefinder camera. I almost never use my 50/2 lenses anymore. The 35/1.4ASPH is my fast lens, the performance wide open is a quantum leap over either the 50/1.4 or 50/1, and I can handhold it 1 speed slower than a 50 so it is usable in the same light as the Noctilux. I would have no hesitation, in your situation, to sell the 35/2 pre-ASPH, buy a Tri- Elmar 1st version and a 35/1.4ASPH.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), June 27, 2001.

I have the 50mm summicron f2 and love it. It is the one produced right before the current model with separate hood and focus tab which I really like since most of my lenses have the tab. I had an old elmar which was OK but as others have mentioned is not much smaller than the cron. I have friends who own and swear by the Noctilux. I have used it and it's like carrying a rock around your neck but no doubt produces unique beautiful images. IMHO the summicron is a choice you wont regret.

T. Gallagher

-- T. Gallagher (tgallagher10@yahoo.com), June 27, 2001.

I would vote for the Summicron, and as others have stated, I like the next to last model with the tab and snap on hood.

One thing to consider with the Leica M (or any RF camera), the problem with using either a super fast or longer lens is the inability to visualize the narrow depth of field. Yes the Noctilux is a great lens, but unless you really use it a lot, the results you get back won't be what you saw in the finder. The same is true with the telephoto lenses also. Sometimes I just can't believe the slides get back from my 90mm lens. The images are terrific to be sure, but they are not even close to what I saw at the time of taking them. Consequently, I am using my SLR for those times when I want lenses longer that 50mm or when I want to do extreme selective focus at the widest apertures. There are less surprises when the film comes back.

Both the 35mm and 50mm Summicrons are an Ideal match in my opinion for the Leica M. You can still shoot wide open, but the results are a bit more tame. They also keep that M diminutive, meaning you would be more inclined to have it with you.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), June 27, 2001.

"Real Leicamen shoot Elmars."

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), June 27, 2001.

Al Smith:

"My Mama always sed, 'Shootin' rangefinders is like a boxa choklits. You never know exactly what you're going to get.'" (with apologies to Forrest Gump)

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), June 27, 2001.

My short answer is I'm a fan of the Summilux. My long answer is on my website. Click on "Photographic rules of thumb".

-- Tom Bryant (boffin@gis.net), June 27, 2001.

Jackson, check out this rather similar thread:

CLICK HERE FOR 50mm THREAD

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), June 27, 2001.

And here's another one:

50mm TESTS

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), June 27, 2001.

And would you believe:

MORE INFO

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), June 27, 2001.

I have a M6 with only 2 lenses,35 f2 pre asph & a noct.When i travel i only take the 35mm.This includes assignments in Kalimantan,(Borneo) Vietnam,Pacific islands,Outback Australia & India,My work is published in Vouge ,Marie Claire etc.If i was buying another 50mm i would buy the f2 .I have never realy felt i needed anything faster.The fact that the f2 is suposed to be the sharpest lens ever also apeals.The only reason i have a noct is for fashion photography.I shot the curent "Australian Country Style" magazine cover on this lens set at f1.4 while walking backwards and focusing on a model at the same time.The evening before i shot around dusk at f1 for all the inside fashion shots.The lens has a soft efect with a lot of vignetting & bad corner aberations that are great for fashion,But i won't carry this lump to India at christmas.If i had the f2 maybe, just for portraits. but then again i have shot heaps of portraits on my travels with the 35. I think i like the 1 lens 1 film idea.

-- Tim Robinson Photography (timphoto@ihug.com.au), June 28, 2001.

Tim, reading what you do with a noct makes me understand how helpful such a lens can be, very interesting to see someone else´s point of view.Is there a place to see those pictures?

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), June 28, 2001.

I have just tried the aust country style web sight but it is comming up with an error.If i can work out how to put some shots on this site i will put together several noct shots that show why i like this lens but why i wouldn't say it replaces other 50mm's .It gives a diferent enough shot to want the f2 aswell as the f1 . I have closed the lens down to f16 and it was fine at that but i would bet the f2 was crisper and with both lenses set at f2 i,m not sure which on would be best.The f1 to me is like a controlable "HOLGA" similar sort of feel.The other thing is the size of the lens means that about 1/4 of the lower left of the viewfinder is blocked by the lens, For some reason i never notice this when i'm working . The other thing is you need to use slow film or ND filters to keep the shuter speed down.100 iso film in the sun is not possible at f1 without filters. I use tech pan with great results on this lens and is my film of choise with both lenses when traveling and shooting B&W.Colour is a pain in the ass because everybody thinks we want faster and faster emulsions. The cover i spoke of was shot on 160nc or vc but i'm not totaly happy with these films.I wish kodachrome 25 pro was still available.I should realy try the normal consumer version but the processing times are a problem when shooting a job , every client wants the film back yesterday.I would be very interested to hear what others think is the finest & crispiest colour neg film out there. What happend to ektar 25, is somthing like that still around?

-- Tim Robinson Photography (timphoto@ihug.com.au), June 29, 2001.

I just got back from a 2 month trip with the noctilux. I've yet to print all the negatives yet but I'm tempted by the summilux. Why? Because the depth of field is so damn tight at f1 -- it's really hit or miss. Even at f1.4 it's tight -- but once you use the high speed you get addicted. So I've been telling people to get the summilux and save the weight. Also I'm a bit worried about Mr. Put's assertion that the noctilux has a focus shift at the smaller f stops. Anybody know anything about this?

-- Russell Brooks (russell@ebrooks.org), July 03, 2001.

Oh, and I wanted to mention that I also own a 1960s summicron and 1950s collapsible f2.8 elmar. Forget collapsible because sometimes it's not fully extended and the focus is thrown off. Also changing the f stops with my big fingers often changes the focus ring as well and sometimes even slightly collapses the lens. The summicon is beautiful and many talk about it's sharpness -- but if you ever use a faster lens you get spoiled and its hard to go down to such a slow (f2) lens...

-- Russell Brooks (russell@ebrooks.org), July 03, 2001.

On an overcast day, the collapsible Summicron used with a Fujichrome 100 gives a soft glow that's ard to duplicate. I just make sure it's fully extended and locked. After 40 years, I've got the hang of that. I use my later model 50's too, but that collapsible is special.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), July 04, 2001.