I know there are a lot of you who are in grad school, thinking about grad school, or about to start grad school. Are you nuts? Do you have a plan? Do you feel like you're doing the right thing? Do you ever want to quit?

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

Answers

I'm probably as afraid of debt as you are, Beth. In the past year I've managed to pay off my car (which is still on the other coast, unregistered), pay off my computer, pay off a bunch of back bills from when I had a freeloading roommate, and knock a few grand off my credit card debt. Hopefully by the end of the summer or at latest the end of the year I'll be debt free.

However, going back into debt to go to grad school scares the hell out of me. Luckily I work at a university, but their grad programs are only the professional types.. law school, school of education, school of business. I could take a class or two for free a year, I think, but I'm not sure how many years that would take to complete a degree and I'm not sure how long I want to be here. Even then, the only two degrees I could even think of going for are a Masters of Software Engineering (my undergrad degree is in Anthropology and all I know are some scripting languages I taught myself - could I even get in here?) or a Masters of Education in Teaching.

I'm still not sure what I want to do when I grow up. The thought of spending years of my life working full time and going to school on top of it is difficult, especially when the outcome is so murky. The thought of going back into debt is scary. So I do what I always do in these situations... avoid the decision.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

I'll be starting my third year of grad in the fall, and I still feel like I'm approximately 13 years old, and possibly mentally defective. But honestly, the hardest part is getting started. You take classes for the first two years, and then it's research city (at least that's what it's like in my program). Also, as far as the money issue: most programs will pay for your tuition, through teaching stipends or what have you. There are also grants you can get or if you have some kind of psychotically high GRE scores, there are scholarships. The teaching thing is your best bet, though.

Um, do I have a plan? Sort of. Mainly it's to get out in a timely fashion without having a nervous breakdown. Is it the right thing? For me, I think it is. It's the best place to be if you want to know 'why', if that makes any kind of sense. However, I do find the environment to be a little hostile at times. There's never enough space in the room to accomodate all the egos, and that can become really problematic, but I imagine that's the case out in the workforce (real world) as well. I've actually only thought about quitting once, but it was only half-heartedly, and after I'd really had a bad meeting with my thesis committee. Mostly, that kind of thing makes me want to be incredibly stubborn and stick it out. The 'I'll show them!' mentality at work.

Anyway. I don't know. I think there are definite benefits to graduate education, but I think you have to really want to dedicate that large chunk of your life to it. If it doesn't kill you, you might come out of it stronger or tempered, or something like that. At least that's what I'm hoping will happen. :)

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

Due to a million small life circumstances that added up to big delays, I find myself at age 29 with 9 classes left to go...in my *undergrad* degree. Luckily this hasn't hurt me careerwise - I have a very good job in non-profit arts marketing (well, good for non- profit). However - what I really want to be is a children's branch or school librarian. The plan has always been to go on to grad school as soon as I'm done my undergrad, which should be in a couple of years.

In order to get a good library job I need to go to an ALA accredited school. The closest one to me is Drexel University, in Philly.

That program currently costs about $28000, before you consider book and material costs.

That's almost a year's salary for me.

The idea is terrifying. Beth, I wish you all the luck in the world with the decision - and I wish I could tell you it's an easy one! Maybe after you make it you can tell me that.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

I would like to get another graduate degree. And like Beth, I'd want it to be academic, not practical (I already have a practical degree).

I met someone who did it at my workplace. Part time and it took her 6 years. Its hard for me to imagine doing anything for 6 years.

I think that the desire for a purely academic degree is a little nutty. I heard on "Marketplace" that all education is a good investment financially, as you will have a higher salary over your lifetime, with the exception of academic PHDs. I wonder about masters.

I also can't get around thinking that I must have a little academic snobbery about it. What is wrong with educating yourself? but there it is. I'd like another degree.

P.s. to melissa: drexel is a good library school, and they give some fellowships. But try not to pay for library school at all. See about being a research assistant or something.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

I'm in kind of a weird position financially. There is no way I can quit my job and still pay our mortgage. Jeremy and I are suddenly making nearly the same base salary, but he's going to switch to part- time so he can finish up *his* undergrad degree. Meanwhile, I have to work full time and go to school part-time. There's no way we could get by on a teaching stipend, unfortunately. Even a non-profit lawyer makes more than that.

I'm going to an inexpensive state school so it's not expensive at all -- more expensive than my undergraduate work (also a state university, but back in the 80s before California schools got to be expensive) but about half what I paid in law school. What's scaring me, I guess, is that now the registration fees are just coming out of my "spare" money. You know, all that extra money you have lying around that you're not doing anything with. That money.

I plan to stick with a part-time schedule for most of the program, but they're making me take an undergraduate writing course (don't even get me started on that subject) and there is one other writing course I want to take for myself, and since neither of those courses have textbooks, I really don't want to waste a whole semester on them. In that sense I *might* truly be nuts. We'll see.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

Melissa, are you anywhere near Rutger's New Brunswick campus? They have a phenomenal Library studies program, in a number of disciplines. They're famous for their library programs.

But as for my own grad school studies: completely stupid, wildly impractical, just another way to delay real life/get out of real life/avoid real-life responsibilities/dunk yourself head-deep in debt until you're drowned-ed. At least, that's what they're telling me.

And for the most part, I completely agree with them. But in my case, it's paying for the privilige of being immersed in a hippie kind of writer's commune (whether I manage to get into Columbia or make it over to the West Coast), and to have the absolute luxury of having two or three years dedicated entirely to my writing.

(This, professional writers have said, is probably the stupidest thing you can do, and also doesn't make you a good writer, and also, if you're dedicated, you should be able to bang out a novel or thirty at the very same time you're working full-time and having a family and presumably keeping the majority of your friends. This may be true for some people. For me, I am tired of writing in fits and spurts, and the sound of huge chunks of writing time that get to be all mine is just lovely. Also, I don't want to work any more.)

- A quick aside - thank you, to everyone who gave me that great advice about Personal Statements. Hugely appreciated. Big shout out to Shmuel who metaphorically came rushing to my side and patted my hand and whispered soothingly to me until I stopped panicking.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

I've been in grad school for going on forever. There are definitely times I've thought I was nuts or considered quitting. But there are also times I love it. For most people, it's the first time they really get to learn what they're interested in, and learn it in depth. If you focus on this rather than the hoops to jump through and egos to avoid, it can be fun.

In my experience, it is important to know why you are going to grad school. Have a better reason than "It was the logical next step after college." Now, let that goal guide your degree, not what the school and professors tell you. Often in grad degrees, grades don't matter so long as they aren't awful, so focus on what you want to get out of your classes. Think before you take a class because someone says everyone should take it. Do things on your schedule in the order that makes sense for you.

When you get discouraged (and you will get discouraged), think about why you are in grad school. Think about whether that reason is still compelling. It is possible that your frustration will be due to letting the details of the graduate program push aside the goals that you are working towards.

Something that also hits is the feeling that if you're still in school you don't have a "real life" yet, particularly if you go to school full time. Friends who are entirely out of school will sometimes make comments to this effect. That's garbage - educating oneself is "real".

To give a piece of advice that's less abstract, when you're building your class/work/sleep schedule, try to leave a bit of "free" time after each class. Classes, particularly grad classes, run late. Conversations with the professor or other students often crop up after class. These interactions are at least as educational as the class itself. Adding 15 or 20 minutes after each class will be a small time committment with a potentially big payoff.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

Jen - after I move to PA on Saturday, I'll be about an hour and a half from Rutgers NB. They have the very, very best program in the country for what I want - Drexel is, however, in the top ten. I'd prefer to go to Rutgers, but that will depend on where I am when I can finally go - am I married, am I a mommy, am I still living where I'm living, am I in a two-income family?

Rutgers is, however, just about as expensive as Drexel - plus I'll no longer be a NJ resident which will make it worse. Sigh. I was supposed to be independently wealthy. I got mixed up with someone else.

And Beth - the idea of that undergrad writing course must be driving you nuts. I just found out I HAVE to take something called "Introduction to Literary Studies" or I can't graduate. Originally I was told that my AP English score from 10 years ago would let me skip it. It's the VERY first class English majors at this school take. Me, and a bunch of 18 year olds. Please shoot me.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

I've just finished my first year of grad school, and god knows it's occurred to me sometimes that I'm crazy. It occurs to my mother on a daily basis. But mostly I love what I'm doing, and so far that's been making it all work out okay. I'm actually looking forward to my dissertation.

The thing is, I do see this as a career thing for me. The plan as it stands is to start making a name for myself in the community now, in the next few years--my field is smallish, so that's not as hard as it sounds--and go the serious academic job route when I get my degree. The part where I think I'm most crazy is when I realize this might mean ending up somewhere like Oklahoma or Indiana, somewhere where (no offense) I'd never choose to live if the choice were mine. The choice might not be mine.

All that aside, I've never felt this good about anything in my life. I really enjoy grad school, and my research, and that makes it easier to get past the lack of disposable income and the lack of free time.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

It took me 7.5 years to get my Ph.D. (Normally it is a 5-6 year program. I had one slow year when dealing with depression, and also did a lot of course teaching, very unusual at my school, because I love it and I'm interested in getting a job at a small college.) Luckily, I'm in the sciences and got tuition waivers and a stipend - I was poor but at least I only have debt from needing more money each year, not having to pay the tuition. I had taken 2 years after college to decide on going to grad school so that I wouldn't just being doing it because I'm good in school and was scared of getting a real job. I knew I really wanted to go when I got frustrated reading articles about experiments that I thought I could have done better, or interestingly, myself.

It's the hardest thing I've done so far, especially finishing up my dissertation having just moved to where I'm doing my postdoc, with no friends, no home (I was staying in my new advisor's house), very little of my stuff, and an overwhelming feeling of loss and anxiety.

Given the number of times I had doubts about myself and what I was doing in grad school, and the troubles I had at times keeping my productivity consistent, while I was doing school full-time, I am amazed by people who can do a graduate degree while working, or with a family. I'm not sure I could do it. Although, when I was teaching a course and insanely busy I didn't have the luxury to think about whether I liked doing my research or not, I just had to get it done along with everything else. So maybe being busy already makes people better able to just add in something else that keeps them busy. Or they want it so much, despite how hard it is to fit in school, that they will put in the extra effort required.

Most of the friends and colleagues whom I greatly respect and admire will admit to the imposter feeling - they don't think that they are smart enough to do what they do, or they think that people's compliments and interest must not be genuine because those people can't possibly know about all the doubts and laziness and stupidity in their own heads. I feel that way all the time, and my dissertation was really well received, I have some publications, lots of people were excited by the last talk I gave, and I was awarded an extremely competitive postdoctoral fellowship grant from the government. In my weaker moments I still fear that someone will figure out that I don't know anything, and that they should take back all their money and not listen to me anymore.

I think that one way to get through is to keep remembering why you started in the first place, what it is that you love about what you are studying and doing on a daily basis, and try to focus on that and not how smart you feel or not. It's a lesson I'm learning slowly - trying to just do things, and enjoy the doing, instead of thinking too much all the time about how good or bad I am at those things. And I think that is probably even more important when doing the degree mainly for yourself, as opposed to wanting it in order to have an academic career.

And one thing that I would remind myself of when I was hopelessly confused and unsure what it was exactly that I was supposed to be learning, is how often do you get the privilege and freedom to be confused about something for quite awhile before having to make any sense out of it? In my case, I was getting paid to sit around thinking and figuring stuff out, and that was pretty cool.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

anyone doing an (primarily) online program? i have a life and a profession that i can't (and don't want to) leave but would like to stretch the gray matter a little bit... currently looking into an MBA through athabasca university in alberta... but (and perhaps this should go into another forum topic) i am spending more time second guessing myself then getting an application ready for this program...

comments? experience with online education?

thanks cathy

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

Argh. Graduate School. I'm green with envy that you are actually starting, Beth.

I want so much to go back to school and yet there are so many things that get in my way. I am old. I am married to a even older and very high-maintenance man. If it is Tuesday, I'm moving to England, if it is Thursday, I'm buying a too-expensive house at the top of a declining market in Los Angeles.

I was accepted into grad school in England, then we decided to stay here. Now I'm thinking about UCLA and suddenly we're going to England again.

I work more-than-full-time at a demanding deadline-driven job that often leaves me exhausted and drained by the end of the day. I spend all my time running to keep up with house/work/marriage/social life and don't even have time to update my journal very often any more.

Grad school? Am I nuts?

But I want to do it. I'm going to try. And I'm going to have to fight those feelings of stupidity and lack of ability and being behind everyone else that Beth talked about, too. I got all drama- queenly just over having to take the GRE, for chrissake.

Meanwhile, am I moving to England, or not? What day is it again?

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

Cathy, Athabasca is great! When I took a course from them, they didn't have the online option yet, but I was so impressed with how easy it was to get my courses set up, get a tutor session, and generally all the stuff you have to do to get the course credit.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2001

I completely agree with Amanda that grad school should *not* be the default road you take after college. A friend who graduated from Berkeley at the same time I did decided to go for his Ph.D. and ended up becoming so burned out that he dropped out with a master's. Meanwhile, I screwed around for eight years--a year of independent graduate work in the UK, two unpublished novels, a three-year part-time degree through the University of Wales--and now I'm going into a Ph.D. program with an extremely clear idea of not only what I want to do, but why. I am also more clear-sighted about being in debt than I would have been in my early twenties. If I'd wanted nothing more than to be a university professor, though, the time out might have really screwed me over. As it is, I have no belief that the degree will do anything for my future "career"--though as I'm a writer, I'm not looking to parlay the Ph.D. into any specific goal.

I highly recommend a New York Times article from the 24th, I think; online it's at http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/24/living/24CRIS.html. Discusses people in their twenties who are having midlife crises (or quarterlife crises). It certainly made me feel better about choosing grad school over corporate America.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2001

An online master's degree? Sounds good to me. How does it work? Do you just sign up or is it an admissions program?

Heck, if it was online I might be more likely to do it.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2001

online mba check out: http://www.athabascau.ca

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2001