Hi there,

I need a workable developer for getting SUPER FINE GRAIN from Pan F. So far I've been using ID-11/D76 1:1 at 20 C for 8.5 minutes but I thing my grain structure could be tighter. Perhaps its the agitation that has me all agitated? Is Pan F one of those films (like Delta series) that is VERY sensitive to the agitation protocol used when developing?

Does anyone have a died-in-the-wool protocol for developing Pan F and getting negs that you could blow up to 16x20 and still get beautiful essentially grainless free texture? I know its out there cause I've seen it done before.

Muchos gracias!

-- John Chan (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), June 26, 2001

Answers

John I have not used Pan F, but have used D76 at dilutions up to 1:4 with other films. From past experience, longer developing times at lower dilution ratios tends to lower contrast but improves grain structure. If you would like to try alternate dilution ratios, e- mail me and I will send you my formula for computing different dilution rates. Also, temperatures between the chemicals and wash is critical. 1/4 of a degree C is acceptable, but not much more.

Good luck.

-- Mark A. Johnson (logic@gci.net), June 26, 2001.

XTOL or Microdol-X are possibilities. I'd try XTOL first. It can be used 1:1 if desired. Microdol, as I recall, can be used straight or at 1 : 3; but I think the diluted form may actually increase grain, though it also increases acutance.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), June 26, 2001.

I've used both X-tol and Ilford DD-X with Ilford "traditional emulsion" films (Pan F, HP5, about to try FP4). They've given me the finest grain I'VE seen recently. DD-X is a one-shot liquid, therefore more consistent and easier to mix, has some of the best highlight/ shadow tonality I've seen, but is not quite as fine-grain as Xtol. I run all my films at Ilford's suggested times minus 10% (to account for extra contrast of Leica glass, I suppose - it seems to work), and using Ilford's recommended agitation: 10 seconds to start and 10 seconds every minute thereafter.

My darkroom is digital now, but I've made 2700 dpi scans from Pan F/ DDX negatives (equivalent when viewed on-screen at 72 dpi to a 57" x 35" print) in which the grain is just beginning to appear.

Pan F should not be as touchy as the delta/Tmax films - it's a 30- to 40-year-old emulsion (with updates of course). But it does have a little higher inherent contrast like any slower film (viz. Velvia, Kodachrome, Tech Pan)

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), June 27, 2001.

i think you should try photographers formulary tfx-2 film developer. i have used it for about two years with pan f and find it to be the finest yet when compared to id-11/d-76, rodinal and unitol which i use exclusively now with neopan 400. you will need to experiment with dilution, time and ei, with tfx-2, but if diligent, will find it to be unsurpassed. for 35mm try 15ml a, 20ml b, and add 300ml distilled water. my agitation was one inversion at seven minutes of a 14 minute total time. i used no agitation immediately after pouring the developer, but used a two minute pre-soak. i settled on an ei of 100. it is probably best to use a water stop instead of acid and an alkaline fixer (tf4) as well. enjoy!!

-- kenneth (n.lat@lycos.com), June 27, 2001.

I did extensive testing two years ago with many film/developer combinations. The best developer I found for Pan F with fine grain and good sharpness was Ilfosol-S 1+9. I have recently decided that it is unsatisfactory for enlargements greater than 8x12. If you really need sharp, grainless 16x20s from 35mm, I believe that Tech Pan is the only way to go.

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), June 28, 2001.

Rate Pan F at ISO 32 and develop in Perceptol. Diluted developers seem to produce better tonal range; concentrated more contrast.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), June 28, 2001.

You might try PMK or some other staining developer. The stain tends to mask grain.

-- Ed Buffaloe (edb@unblinkingeye.com), June 28, 2001.

I just picked up Ilford's product book...their recommendation for finest possible grain with Pan F is:

Powder: Perceptol stock (ISO 25) 9 minutes at 68 degrees.

Perceptol is similar to Kodak Microdol - it physically makes the grain smaller by dissolving the edges of the silver grains during development. This may affect edge sharpness, and you have to overexpose a stop to create more exposed silver, since some of it will be eaten away (The process is much subtler than it sounds).

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), July 02, 2001.

I tried a bunch of different film/developer combinations a couple of years ago. The best I came up with for Pan F was Ilfosol-S 1+9. For better sharpness and fine grain I finally had to go to Technical Pan.

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), July 03, 2001.

Bill, John:

Bill is on target, too. The Ilfosol-S 1:9 is Ilford's other recommendation for finest grain - a liquid concentrate 'sted powder.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), July 03, 2001.