alternative energy (impact of additional drilling in Alaska)

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alternative energy (impact of additional drilling in Alaska)

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At first blush this forwarded thread may not seem related to homesteading, but if you think about it, if the Arctic Refuge is drilled, it will set back any momentum now present for the development of energy independence such as fuel cells. The response requested in the forwarded email takes only a minute.Dear BioGems Defender,I wanted to pass along to you the following message describing my feelings about President Bush's plan to drill the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and the urgent need for us to fight back. I know you've visited the SaveBioGems.org website and, most likely, already taken action on behalf of our priceless Arctic wilderness -- and I thank you. Now, please do me the great favor of forwarding my message to everyone you know -- your friends, family, co-workers, discussion groups -- encouraging them to join us in thiscritical battle. Sincerely yours,Robert Redford=====Dear Friend, I've never circulated this kind of email before. But I am so appalled by President Bush's plan to open up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to massive oil development that I feel I must do whatever I can to help stop it. To me, the Arctic Refuge represents everything spectacular and everything endangered about America's natural heritage: a million years of ecological serenity . . . vast expanses of untouched wilderness . . . an irreplaceable sanctuary for polar bears, white wolves and 130,000 caribou that return here each year to give birth and rear their young. For 20,000 years -- literally hundreds of generations -- the native Gwich'in people have inhabited this sacred place, following the caribou herd and leaving the awe-inspiring landscape just as they found it. Our own presidents going back to Eisenhower have kept a bipartisan promise to safeguard this world-class natural treasure. But not THIS president. It is a sad day indeed when our president and congressional leaders would sacrifice America's largest wildlife refuge for the sake of a possible six-month supply of national energy. A six-month supply! We could save that little oil by improving the fuel efficiency of cars and light trucks by a mere one mile per gallon. Only one group of Americans will benefit from the destruction of the Arctic Wildlife Refuge: the oil giants. Everyone else loses. Arctic wildlife populations will decline, the Gwich'in people will see their land marred by pipelines and poisoned by oil spills, you and I will become even more dependent on oil, and the planet will suffer catastrophic global warming from the burning of even morefossil fuel. Unless we get millions of Americans to lodge a protest right now, this nightmarish scenario may well come to pass in the next two months. The Republican energy bill, which would fulfill the president's promise to drill the Arctic Refuge, is moving through Congress today. House and Senate leaders may also try to sneak through the Arctic drilling provision by attaching it to a "must-pass" appropriations bill. These votes will be decided by the moderates in both parties. We must reach those moderates and hold them accountable. Here's what you can do: go tohttp://www.savebiogems.org/arctic The Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) has set up this new website to make it extremely easy for you to send messages of protest to your senators and represenative. It will take you only a minute. I've been on NRDC's board for 25 years, so I know how effective they are at waging and winning environmental campaigns. Last year, NRDC used web activism to help generate a million messages of protest to Mitsubishi and stopped the company from destroying the last unspoiled birthing ground of the Pacific gray whale. We'll win this time too if each of us does our part for the Arctic Refuge. Please visit http://www.savebiogems.org/arctic right now. And forward my message to your family, friends and colleagues. Congress cannot ignore millions of us. If we let them plunder our greatest wildlife refuge for the sake of oil company profits, then no piece of our natural heritage is safe from destruction. Please go to http://www.savebiogems.org/arctic and help keep the Arcticwild and free. Sincerely yours,Robert Redford=====

-- John Fritz (aeon30@hotmail.com), May 05, 2001

Answers

Response to alternative energy

John,

You are absolutely right. This post does not seem to have much to do with homesteading.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), May 05, 2001.

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Response to alternative energy

Careful Ed, remember the last time you agreed with someone on this forum.

-- Lynn Goltz (lynngoltz@aol.com), May 05, 2001.

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Response to alternative energy

Gee, I think it is extremely appropo....as homesteaders we try to "walk lightly" on this earth....this is a way to let our opinions be known supporting that philosophy. The time is long past when you can hide away and not be affected by what goes on in the world. Thanks for the post.

-- Deborah (bearwaoman@Yahoo.com), May 05, 2001.

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Response to alternative energy

Hello John, It is so unfortunate that others like yourself do not take a stand on this matter. A homesteader is also an enviromentalist whether he wants to be or not.....to some degree aleast. I do not agree with expolotation of our widerness areas but, I think it has come to past that we have not spent enough time exploring other alternatives for fuel and now we have no choice but, to use our well protected reserves. The affects on drilling for oil in that region will be short termed. Eventually nature will return and everything will be back to its pre drilling state. Nature has a way of coming back dispite man's attempts to spoil it. Sincerely, Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), May 05, 2001.

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Response to alternative energy

I agree with Deborah. If people would live lightly, conserve, and simplify we wouldn't even be dicussing defiling our national treasures. You know, just live like us homesteaders. ....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), May 05, 2001.

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Response to alternative energy

Ernest: I know what your saying but I fear that once it starts it opens a floodgate of special interests. First drill for oil then the mining gets in, then the timber industry etc. The goverment never seems to do things temporarily. Very respectfully.....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), May 05, 2001.

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What do you expect with two oil men in the white house. I'd say it will get a lot worse before it gets better. When you consider how short sighted and extreeme all the things they are telling us are,can you immagine what they're not telling us. I hate to be pessimistic but it appears we're doomed. The good news however, is, even at the rate we're going now it will take at least a couple of centuries before we've totally poisoned our planet beyond repair. We'll all be dead and burried so I guess that must me the philosophy of all the bozos in charge. Don't worry, be happy! Global warming and ozone depletion is a myth perpetrated by environmental, communist extremist that want to destroy our American way of life. A house in the suburbs with a chemically treated lawn, an SUV and Lexus in the garage, and a rate of consumption in excess of an entire tribe of aboriginal people. If these thoughts get you angry then I suggest you go to that website and voice your opinion. But don't stop there. Get involved in the process, write letters and speak out against the madness constantly, join the Green party or something. As mentioned earlier, the earth has a way of healing itself and there might be hope for our long term survival if we get real serious, real soon. It's amazing to me that lizards with brains the size of a wallnut ruled the earth for hundreds of millions of years and we're on the brink of destroying it in just 10 thousand. Well that's enough gloom for now, I think I'll just go down to the river and try and think happy thoughts for a while.

-- Carter (chucky@usit.net), May 06, 2001.

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Ernest, I would not call the effects of the oil industry temporary. In Santa Barbara, where there was a spill in the 70's, you can still find little balls of tar on the beach. This may be temporary in the long term, but the effets of these things tend to linger for quite awhile.

-- Elizabeth (Lividia66@aol.com), May 06, 2001.

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Hello folks, I have always "walked lightly on the earth" but, I can not say that I have not been as much a part of the oil consumption as anyone else. Frugality, keeps me from wasting anything! But, we all are the blame for expecting increased consumption on demand for all these years. It is just not gasoline that uses up the oil. Its a bigger and much broader picture than that. 53% of all our electrical power comes from companies that use oil to run their generators. One of the most common packagings that is wrapped around nearly everything we purchase is plastic. That is made from oil. It takes fuel to delivered the goods. Planes, trains, and trucks. They are the ones that bring you the necessities and staples that you get at your local Walmart. We also export oil to other countries. We are under contract with several Asian companies to provide them with oil. Our military needs oil. They use a small chunk of it with transporting troops and training programs, plus existing bases throughout the world that are there to maintain peace. Folks, without oil we as the United States will cease to exist! You are worried about carribou up in the Artic! You are afraid that the government might get carried away and continue drilling after the oil crisis is managed! You are afraid that some oil might get spilled and pollute the environment! You better be worried about the complete stopage of all transportation in America. You better worry about outages of electricity over the whole country. You should worry about getting the goods delivered. You should also think about how you are going to run your tractors, milking machines, lawn mowers, suv, motor boats, and everything else that you have that is not hand operated. I say let them do the drilling and shut up. I say it is too late for us to produce enough alternative energy sources on such a large scale in time to beat this shortage. For about thrity years all of us have been hearing about or using alternative energy sources. Solar unless it is passive is too expensive! Wind, well you have to be where the wind is! Water, I have a creek but, it does not flow enough to use it as a power source! Ethanol, gasahol, etc. We had our chance to mass produce it but, folks did not like it. Steam, then we will have the tree huggers complaining that we are cutting too many trees. Coal, too dirty and requires mining and we know how you feel about mining. So all of you arm chair enviromentalists out there think you can do something about it. Then do it! Folks you can't have your cake and eat it too! If you want alternative fuels you have to create a demand for them. If you want to use the other fuels that may cause enviromental problems you have to quit complaining about the damage that they are doing to the planet. Stop blaming the government. We are the ones that have been sitting back and not doing anything about it. Sure, we recycle, we conserve, we cashed in our coke bottles back in the sixties, we got smaller cars and trucks. We limited our trips to the store. We did all these things to save us money. but, we did not make a demand for alternative energy sources! We were happy driving our internal combustion engines and watching our electric TVs. Now, you have waited until the last minute to do something. You are realizing that your engines with soon not start and your TVs will not turn on! And what are you doing? Complaining to each other! Criticizing each other! Blaming each other! Well, folks look in the mirror and then point your finger at the one who is the blame! Sincerely, Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), May 06, 2001.

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Ernest, the only one I can see critizing or blaming others here is you. You say it is too late, that we must now drill for oil in the last great wilderness in the U.S.? You have forgotten that, even by oil industry "experts" there is only a few months supply in the Refuge, given current U.S. rate of consumption. And this assumes that all oil extracted from the Refuge is used to meet domestic demand. It would not. It would be sold on the world market, as Prudhoe Bay oil is now sold, after promises that it wouldn't. Your information is simply incorrect. Check out the work of Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute: www.rmi.org I believe. He has been advising energy and power producing companies for years, and has sold many of them the concept of "negawatts". That it is cheaper and easier to save energy, and use this saved energy to meet increased demand, than it is to produce new energy and energy producing plants. Of course you will hear little of this on the main stream media. If these facts were widely known the demand for "least cost energy" would embarass elected officials to stumble over each other in attempts to take credit for popularizing the facts. Then we could all live in the kind of world we want, and not be bamboozled into a believing in the necessity of the extreme measures proposed by the oil industry.

-- John Fritz (aeon30@hotmail.com), May 06, 2001.

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For anyone who is interested in corroboration of my point made above, there is a relevant thread in the Alternative Enery database of older messages on the Forum. It is listed under the second to last thread titled "hydrogen fuel cells", by which I mean there is more than one thread titled "hydrogen fuel cells".

-- John Fritz (aeon30@hotmail.com), May 07, 2001.

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Wow, Ernest! Boy are you brave! Daring to question one of the basic tenets here. I agree with you; I'll be amazed if anyone else does. Prepare to be crucified.

-- Firewall Up (nowayjose@nothere.com), May 07, 2001.

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I tend to agree with drilling in the Arctic, but for different reasons. Those folks will get what they deserve. Period. When its gone, they will cry and whine and behave much as they are now, and there will be no more ways out for them. I will enjoy a hearty chuckle.

Nothing we seem to do (as humans) is ever as temporary as those politicians will say. Animals are still dying from the Valdez spill, and they say its all cleaned up. Is the new technology really safe? The pipeline isn't the nemesis some thought it would be, but then the 'safe' rigs in the ocean aren't as SAFE as they thought... Who knows???

Even if those who don't think we should drill would all stand together - which they won't - it wouldn't be stopped. We (yes... me) don't have the money, time, manpower etc. etc. So, all we can do is write, call, and boycott... Some of us can't. My husband still has to get to work (over 50 miles each way), so boycotting fuel is out. And so on, ad nauseum.........

Thanks, but as for me, I find I enjoy breathing, drinking and eating... I'll sign.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), May 07, 2001.

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Hello John, I took a look at Rocky Mountain Institute by your recommendation. Very interesting suggestions they have but, did you know that most of us are already doing the "caulking the windows", "building our houses in the shade", etc., that they are suggesting. Most of us are very frugal with energy! That is all well and good but, it still does not convince me that we have time to explore and manufacture alternative energy resources. I stated that we should have started this in the sixties. Here it is 40 years later and we are still using electricity and we are still driving gasoline automobiles. In the sixties no one paid much attention to the energy crisis. Now that it is in vogue......everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon.....even Robert Redford! Sincerely, Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), May 07, 2001.

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Robert Redford 'jumped on the bandwagon'? Well, yeah, but that was about 30+ YEARS ago!!! And he's been there ever since.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), May 08, 2001.

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I wish we were more conservative with our resourses but do not want to rely on the middle east for anything! I think some of Californias will conserve. My parents are in Northern Ca. and my bother in S. Ca., I know without gas my brother has no job. (He is a State building inspector). Now my parents are retired and I have preached on conseration for along time, now they are trying. I live OK. and have naturally conserve. I think middle America can because culture or whatever do. I to hate destroying the beauty of America with drilling but think it is necessary. Now mind you I have 300 acres and the oil companies have drilled on the back of my property which makes me sick they get the gas and I get a pipe. The gas goes someplace else and I still pay a bill. So, I can open my mouth because I do pay a higher price for the lost of beauty.

-- Debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), May 08, 2001.

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Actually, if you read the thread in the Alternative Energy database named "hydrogen fuel cells" you would remember that drilling for new sources of oil is the slow fix. If the Arctic Refuge is drilled for oil it will be at least ten years before any of it reached market. But this would not create energy security. It would make us more enery insecure than we already are. The current pipeline from Prudhoe Bay is a terroists' dream. It would be very simple to blow this up in the middle of winter and have the resulting crude harden in the subzero temperatures. To add another such pipeline just increases the vulnerability of the energy supply. Also, it is all fine and well to cauk your windows and plant shade trees, but the biggest users of energy are heavy industries, and these can be made vastly more efficient with low tech solutions that are already known by organizatins such as RMI. But Governor Bush does not appear too keen on popularizing these solutions, as a true statesman would, because it would not benefit Big Oil that put him in office.

-- John Fritz (aeon30@hotmail.com), May 09, 2001.

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It is not governments job to micromanage the energy situation in this country. Government is probably the least efficient way to cause people to conserve which is what needs to be done to drive prices down. If big business wishes to institute energy conservation methods to make themselves more profitable, so be it, but they should not be rewarded with tax breaks or govt. kickbacks to ensure that they do what is in their best interest anyway. It may sound harsh, but people and businesses will finally start truly conserving and turning to alternative energy sources when it really starts to hurt. It might be draconian, but higher energy prices are better for everyone in the long run. Artificially low prices only serve to increase consumption. Do you think we'd have as many SUV's on the roads if gas had been $3-$4/gal for the last 10 years, or would we already have true alternative fuel vehicles available at reasonable prices?

-- ray s. (mmoetc@yahoo.com), May 09, 2001.

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Hey Ernest- Could you please list oh say a half dozen places in the world where oil has been drilled for but has now reverted to unspoiled nature? I'd really be interested as I can't think of any places like that.

-- debra in ks (solid-dkn@msn.com), May 09, 2001.

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I must agree with the position ray takes. During the 70's when we were paying 50-60 cents per gallon for gasoline, it was costing $2.50 per gallon in Europe. People drove small, 3-cylinder cars and mopeds. Energy was expensive. So home refrigerators were about 7-12 cu ft and had no freezers. They shopped daily for parishables. And as a result, they lived life in a slower, simplified mannor. Grocery stores did not have isles of refrigeration or freezers. Many foods we purchase cold were sold at room temperature. And as a student, I asked and soon learned that the reason people lived this way was because they cound not afford to exceed this level of consumption. And it was among the best years of my life. I returned to the states with a new appreciation of conservation. And honestly, I was shocked at the gross consumption of energy everywhere I turned after coming home. But I soon re-adjusted, and eventually accepted the American short-sighted view that our energy stream was endless, (read "affordable"). Well, the party is over.

-- Dwight (summit1762@aol.com), May 09, 2001.

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Concerning Ray's point that businesses should not be rewarded with kickbacks or tax credits for doing what is in there best interest anyway, I would agree, as long as we could also agree to stop subsidizing ALL businesses. This is supposed to be a free market where the competent and efficient flourish and those that aren't find other ways to make a living. So, no bailouts for Chrysler when they make bad business decisions, and no subsidies for Big Business while the little guy has to fend for himself. Tim Robbins put it cogently: "Corporations are capitalist when they make a profit, and socialists when they lose money". Anyway, my main point is, that if Governor Bush was truly a statesman, he would be making the symbolic gestures that Jimmy Carter did by making the White House as efficient as the state of the art would allow. Which, by the way, Reagan rolled back when he moven in,along with the tax credits that were helping solar and other alternatives to be on a even playing field with con- ventional energy sources.

-- John Fritz (aeon30@hotmail.com), May 10, 2001.

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John- I'd love to stop subsidizing all business, including agriculture, but the reality of the situation is is that it is much easier to stop the govt. from starting something than to eliminate it once it begins. Thus my objection to new programs. As for the Carter era subsidies for alternative energy- I still feel they did more harm than good by attracting get rich quick artists to easy money rather than fostering sustainable growth in the industry. Many more people got turned off to solar water heating, etc., because they got stuck with cheap, substandard products and no follow up service, than ever got truley converted to sustainable power by viable options.

-- ray s (mmoetc@yahoo.com), May 11, 2001.

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Hi Folks. Just thought I would put in my 2 cents worth. When I helped collect signatures against the nuclear power plant in Fulton MO I thought I was doing a noble thing. I was doing the right thing but I finally realized the noble thing would be not to use their power at all. I love to see people complain and moan about nuclear, coal, price of gas, but the whole time their supporting the very things that they are complaining about. That's alot like the animal rights people. I know several here that let it be known far a wide about the poor animals being trapped, raised for burger's, etc. but the whole time they eat meat, wear leather shoe's, drive a $40,000 dollar SUV. Physician heal thyself. If you don't have alternative energy don't complain about drilling in Alaska because you are voting with your dollars that that is what you want. Rick

-- Rick Scarlet (rscarlet@townsqr.com), May 12, 2001.



-- (animalwaitress@excite.com), June 23, 2001


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