Forum Rules & Guidelines

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Beyond the Sidewalks : One Thread

With all the recent hooplah on the CS forum regarding Hoot's posts, I've decided to re-post the rules & guidelines for our forum.

If, after reading the below message, you find our forum not to your standards, you might find the Freedom! self reliance forum more to your liking.

But those who can abide by the rules and guidelines of this forum are more than welcome to participate here.

******************************************

Welcome to Beyond the Sidewalks.

I've noticed lately that the Countryside forum is becoming more and more a haven for religious extremists. It seems that moderate-christians, pagans, liberals, gays and lesbians, environmentalists and others with differing viewpoints from the extremists haven't been posting quite as much lately. Some of this is perhaps because of harassing emails and even computer viruses that were sent to some forum members - possibly as a form of intimidation. I'm concerned that if these sorts of things continue much longer the extremists will win by default and those of us who differ with them will end up giving up the CS forum and scattering to other areas of the Net.

I'd hate to see that happen. So, I created the Beyond the Sidewalks (BTS) forum as an alternative for us "free thinkers". Now don't get the idea that I'm giving up on the Countryside forum, but instead think of this new forum as a lifeboat for a worst-case scenario. It's also my thinking that if all of us with strong opinions can find our own forums to vent at, the Countryside forum will maybe move back to a place of stability for ALL of us to discuss specific homesteading questions.

The rules and guidelines are simple:

RULES
1.) No Spam
2.) No Porn
3.) No Proselytizing or Witnessing

If you violate any of the above rules you will be asked to stop. If you continue to harass the forum your posts will be deleted and your ISP will also be contacted.

GUIDELINES
1.) Be Civil & Follow the Golden Rule - treat others as you would like to be treated.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2001

Answers

Way to go, you guys. (Here and on OTF chat) Had to go and make me look, didn't ya? ;o)

Well, it just gives me another chance to say how much I appreciate this forum and y'all - LOVE YA!! DON'T EVER CHANGE!

What makes me sad, is all the people threatening to drop their subscriptions to the mag, because they are angry at the so called censoring. For performing a valuable FREE service; that is, providing the CS forum - the publishers of the mag are being punished. I don't get it. I think it's what Granny used to call "biting the hand that feed you". I wonder which way the tide is flowing - are they losing or gaining more subs as a result? If it's a loss, I can't see how any astute businessman could continue to support a venture that is costing him moola.

And now, I think that they're rolling on over into "cutting off your nose to spite your face". I have been the recipient of so much wonderful information and fellowship as a result of the Countryside forum, I wouldn't dream of cutting my support for their other ventures. Besides, I love the mag! Can't leave this computer sitting on the back of the toidy innocently open to an article I'd like someone with a little ruminating time to take a look at!

So, I'm going to go write a check for a renewal of my sub; then I'm gonna call the kid to bring home a ream of paper and head over to the CS archives and start printing out some of the stuff I want to remember, before it's gone the way of the nickle ice cream cone - fondly remembered and impossible to bring back.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2001


Well said,Polly.I have two people I want to give gift subscriptions bc I think they will like it,so looks like it's a good time to whip out the checkbook.Don't know exactly what is going on,but I guess the same as before.I stay away from all that,now.Too much going on familywise to worry abt all that,yet.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2001

Okey Dokey Jim. I'm giving some gift subscriptions to the magazine also. Boy, I need to print. Polly, put your printer on Econo-quick and it won't use as much ink and still you can read it good. What I need ASAP is a CD burner! You know you can save your Favorites to be "Viewed offline" and then print and erase and do it again. I looooove you guuuuys.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2001

Okay Cindy - this here computer says CD Writer Plus on it. Does that mean I can "burn" CDs? If so, tell me what you said again, changing the techno speak to idiot level! I think you said I can do something with my favorites so that I can read them when I'm not online and maybe save them on a CD to look at later? So I wouldn't have to go in and print a hard copy of everything? Just save it sorta on a CD? If that IS what you said, how?! And Bless You for having the knowledge and sharing it!

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2001

I've already copied a LOT of the best threads onto floppy disc, since I don't have a CD burner. Basically all you have to do is highlight what you want to save, right click, copy, then save to a program such as wordpad. Then load in a blank disc and drag the file from where you stored it to the floppy or CD drive. You can fit a whole lot on a floppy that way, and many time that on a CD. I mostly lurk because that's all I've got the time for, but it's quick and easy to save what I want and come back to it at my leisure, plus if anything gets deleted later I've still got my copy.

This is a great forum and I hope it stays that way. I'll do my best to follow the rules when I do post. See ya.

Rick

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2001



Polly, go to the page with the info you want, like a thread. Click on Favorites, then ADD, then when the box comes up to name it what you want and put it in a folder, click the little box that says "Make available offline". You will see the little papers flying into your computer. Then later, open up Explorer, and "work offline" when it asks you to connect to the internet. Open your Favorites again, and there it is! I do this allot with graphic tutorials. What make of computer is it and I'll see what your Writer is.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2001

Gosh, go away for a day and you miss the hoopla. I generally hate missing anything, even hooplas. Oh, well. See you guys here I guess!

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

The computer is an HP Pavilion mx50. AKA: cheap Wally-World computer about 2 months old. I'll see what I can do with it when I get caught up.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

Oh my goodness, saving to a disk to read off line is a lot quicker than the cutting and pasting into a blank document that I was trying to do. Thanks for the info. There is too much incredible, amazing information in the CS archives to loose it to the foolishness of some people who I won't miss if they leave.

Namaste,

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001


Hey guys!

This is my first time on BTS, but I've been on the CS forum for several weeks and was also concerned with the current hoopla. I think it's pretty well run the course now. I posted a response to Ken's admonition and then sent a personal e-mail to Dave. My sense from thier responses is things are getting back to normal.

As to losing business Polly, many of the peolpe responding to Ken's post have pledged new subscriptions to the point that CS may actually MAKE money on the deal!!! *mischevious grin* Guess it goes to show...

I'm looking forward to learning more and sharing here at BTS!

Thanks!!!

Randle

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001



Polly, try this site for any help you need:

http://peripherals.about.com/compute/peripherals/cs/cddvdcdwriters/ind ex.htm

copy and paste, and if there is a space in the link, backspace it out. Should have no spaces.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001


OK, I know that Jim is off-line right now and won't be available to give final approval to this, but a thought has flown into my head and I'm afraid if I don't write it down now it's just going to fly back out again!

I was wondering if we could brainstorm a way to reword rule #3 (No Proselytizing or Witnessing) without opening up a can of worms. Maybe add a disclaimer to the effect of "Discussion of personal spiritual experience in a non-judgemental manner is fine. Threatening people with hellfire and damnation if they do not believe exactly the way you do is NOT."

I believe that reuniting the spiritual and the mundane is our best hope for the future. I love hearing people's stories; how their beliefs and philosophies have brought them to homesteading and made them who they are today. I think that it's important for all of us to feel comfortable sharing, I love hearing other points of view. But my feeling is that the current wording of rule #3 reflects a subtle bias against our Christian forum members. Now we all know why Jim made that rule in the first place, and as I said earlier I don't want to open a can of worms, especially after what's being going on over at CS.

What do you guys think?

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001


Sweet thought Sherri..........I think that those of us here who are Christians understand what his intention was. I for one don't feel discriminated against at all and we seem to be doing pretty good here.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

I'm a Christian and I don't feel particularly discriminated against. If I do, I'll let you guys know.

I've been out of town. What's the Hoot and Countryside controversy about?

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001


Never mind... I just popped over to CS and read several threads, plus added my old $.02.

My goodness.....what a tempest in a teapot!

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001



It doesen't bother me either, Sherri. To me there are 2 kinds of witnessing. One is the way I live my life and how I treat others, that is my witness, and the second is "witnessing", talking at others with the intent of making them believe what you believe.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

I went over to the freedom forum to see what they were saying about the deleted post of Hoot, et al, well, Hoot's post is over there and lots of comments from the freedom group. Personally I am glad that CS is nixing that kind of topic and the comments that go on with it. There are some lovely and wonderful christians on this forum that impart their christ like behavior in an inspiring way, but the doom and gloom crap is not for me, don't believe it and don't want to read it or hear it.

Thanks again Jim for providing a sanctuary for the touchy feelie group.

Namaste,

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001


I too LOVE this forum and the folks that congregate here.

Sherri: I know what you mean and actually sympathize with the sentiment but I'm afraid the distinction you make is lost on those who are bound and determined to "wittness" in the way we've become accustomed to. We've had a few GOOD spiritual discussions here and there were no flame wars, no name calling, no condemnation of any kind---just honest discussion.

Some of the conservative Christians seem to take the dislike of the sermonizing and preaching as a rejection of them personally or a rejection of Christ and its neither tho I doubt they'd ever be convinced of it.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001


Okay, I want to growl just a little. Here is what Hoot posted on FSR about being censored:

"Hey Deena! YES!!!! I WAS AND AM CENSORED!!!! Too much Christianity according to Ken and Dave!! I am invited to continue posting there if I don't promote my Faith. I'm so mad I could bite nails right now. I don't know why I can't promote Jesus Christ on there when pagens, heathens and witches can promote their beliefs."

Then, on another post on FRS, another gentleman points out that hoot had over 350 posts on CS. As anyone who has read hoot's posts knows, most if not all of his posts made some reference to Christianity.

How many pagan, heathen and witch posts do you remember on CS? There may well have been more, but I remember only one major thread where Raven asked about it in reference to a survey. Hoot just asked in his deleted post for Christians to stand up and be counted. No reason, like for starting another forum or how it relates to you homesteading or a survey or anything. In a later post at FSR, he stated that He (Christ) had told him to post it.

I liked Hoot's posts when he began posting about the good old days, but he no longer tells stories, he simply witnesses. No one has asked him to deny his faith. There are other forums more appropriate to such witnessing. We took our "pagans, heathens and witches" to another forum, and there is a Christian forum also. Hoot states that he does not "preach to the choir" - so saying that he does not need to witness to Christians on the Christian forum because they are already Christian. He wished for 1,000 converts for every post he made. His style of witnessing pushes away far more than it draws in. I am much more drawn to the style of witnessing of Cindy, Diane and Sheepish. Gosh, even the Jehovah Witness folks go away if you ask them to!

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001


I'm sorry, I usually keep outa these things, but I cant help myself tonite. He said he wanted one thousand converts for every post?? He really said that?? Talk about a HOOT~!!!

Why are images of certain individuals from recent history floating thru my mind.......could be I'm crazy of course.....jim jones.....david koresh.......billy graham? {no offense to him directly ---I was brought up on him, but some people DO have a saviour complex.........}...sun young moon......

Some of us just were born wanting to be super-stars!! Who ends up really being the 'star' of these kinda posts? Somethin tells me it aint Jesus....but what do I know?

Having a good time, and love you guys,

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001


Rrrrrthmama---yer a Hoot! and I know what you mean.

The whole thing is kinda sad really and I think the shrinks would call this a double bind, a common occurrence in Schizoid mindsets. But I'm talking a societal double bind.

Here we are, at BTS, a mixed group of people from a wide variety of faiths, peacefully and respectfully, discussing and sharing alot of things and getting along and caring about one another.

There "they" are, doing approximately the same thing amongst themselves on the Christian forum.

So, what are the differences and whats the problem?

We don't feel compelled or commanded to preach that our way is the only way and some of "them" do. I think most of us here at BTS are content to assume responsibility for our own souls and tend to our own souls in the way that best suits our nature and makes sense to us, to find peace, contentment, love and satisfaction from life while at the same time "helping" and giving back to life by the choices we consciously make. That comes in different ways for different people (viva la difference!) but the common thread that SHOULD unite us all, regardless of "faith", is our common human experience and mutual compassion and respect.

That shouldn't be taken to mean that those of us who call ourselves something other than Christian are without a moral compass tho or that we lack spiritual ideals that we aspire to.

We don't need "saving" because we've enlisted the aid of THE higher power who dwells within us ALL as WE individually relate to it. I personally call that the Christos and other people call the same thing by a different name. That spirit is universal and it goes by many different names.

The people who need saving Hoot, if you're listening, are the ones without a moral compass, without a "Higher purpose", without Love and compassion in their heart and life, and not necessarily those who are a different kind of Christian than you or even a "different" kind of person than you. For you to think otherwise is presumptous and arrogant IMO.

Like it or not we are ALL subject to how we, individually, determine the ultimate meaning of this or that bible verse or whatever. Even if the bible is inerrant,(and I'm not personally suggesting it is) is that any guarantee OUR interpretation of it is also? I think not!---- and that fact alone should give anyone pause, and create in us at least a germ of humility when facing something or someone who believes differently than us.

No intellectually honest and sincere person could say that is not so without claiming inerrancy for themselves in the same breath. Yet thats is how "they" come across to me sometimes.

To do otherwise seems arrogant and presumptous to me. I don't doubt the sincerity of many "born agains" but I think their efforts are misguided. Help and wittness to those who ask you to or those without the moral compass, or higher purpose mentioned earlier and if you must judge, then judge by the works. Are we kind, constructive, well meaning, compassionate etc? If so then consider you're among friends that its not necessary to preach to or at.

"They" sadly will see this as Christian bashing however and some will whine "persecution" when its just good sense to me.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001


Well, I just *knew* that had to be John posting by the time I had read a few paragraphs. And I was right. Here I go, being a touchy- feely, but I do have to say, John, that I frequently read your posts and appreciate them, even if I never say anything. I don't get to the computer until it is wee small hours, and am already physically and often mentally exhausted and spend time wrestling with wrapping my brain around some of the concepts imparted....

So I may not say things folks, but I AM reading them and trying to assimilate (oh no, it's the BORG again!).

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001


Polly.John,and Earthmamma.Thank you for those comments.I'm almost afraid to post on this topic.Whenever someone would "pick on" the chosen ones over on CS,that person would seem to get sent viruses or porno or hacked.Didn't matter if you were Christian or nice or anything.Lesley,Sheepish and diane come to my mind.That kinda behavior is ,after all,what started all this and what brought most over here. What will be the backlash this time? And,yepper,Polly you said a mouthful.We are here, bc we didn't feel particularly free to post our thoughts,there.

I had really believed noone else saw that particular side of hoot.I've had the wonderful fortune,having purposely lived in the country my entire life,of knowing a number of old country gentlemen of kind heart and wise council.My father in law came to mind as I wrote this.I never thought hoot quite measured up,even tho everyone else seemed to think he was.I hope this isn't taken as any sort of disparaging remark. Just think he still needs some work before he qualifies for the position.

I had started to see another side a while back,confirmed for me by some early posts on FRS.I think E.M has summed that up.People get too big for their britches sometimes. He has displayed his flawed humanity.I can only hope he is humble enough to recognize that.I'm OK with people having faults,I sure do.Not particularly OK with people who get so full of themselves that they start to act like they don't have any.Yepper,E.M.,you said a mouthful. And diane said many won't recognize their Savior when he sits down beside them. She sure has her thinking cap on,too.

John,I too judge people by their works.And give them the benefit of the doubt when I first meet them,unless and until they prove me wrong.When I had this discussion with one of my born again friends,having been saved is what was their guiding principle.That is a difference. We could not really understand each other's position,so we simply accepted the difference.That's what friends do.

I found out my born again friends would not be able to come to my funeral,bc I am not.Part of their belief.Surprised me,but I accepted it,specifically bc my born again friends do not try to convert me.We accept each other as we are.That's why they are my FRIENDS.Someone who keeps trying to witness on me when I haven't asked for it,is obviously not my friend.So,yepper,John,you said a mouthful.

I've said too much.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001


Forgive me, I can not find my dictionary since I re-arranged the living room, what does "inerrant" mean? You guys are teaching me new words. I have to find that dictionary! Is it like inherant?

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001

From FSR: Did anyone get an invite to the leftist forum thread:

"353? Wow! Thank God that His Word has gone out!!!! I hope for a THOUSAND souls to be saved for EACH ONE OF THOSE 353 posts! He is STILL in control! Matt.24:44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), June 21, 2001."

Nope, I wasn't seeing things, or making it up. Took me a while, but I found it again. Those of you who e-mailed me can go look over there, and satisfy your own eyes. Next time, if you REALLY want an answer, use a valid e-mail addy.

Cindy, inerrant or inerrent means without errors.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001


I'm glad to have this forum to come over and read, and occasionally post. I so seldom read any possibly irritating posts on C.S. that I hadn't even realized what was going on, even when I read the warning yesterday. (I guess I should read a little more now and then)

Jim, Thanks for starting this forum, and I appreciate what YOU AND EVERYONE DOES to keep this a peaceful place forrr discussion or digression.

Peace to all, in whatever form it takes for you...

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001


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