I was wondering how you can tell the difference between the pool type of DE and the garden/livestock kind? I know the garden kind is not toxic while the pool kind is. Thanks in advance. Regards, Kris W Vista, CA

-- Kris Weimer (KrisWmr@SoftHome.net), June 14, 2001

Answers

Hi Kris.. you must use the kind that's labeled "food grade". I use DE on the ground in my goat pens, and add it to their loose mineral mix, and they haven't had a positive fecal test for worms since I've been doing that! :)patty Prairie Oak Miniatures http://www.minifarm.com/prairie_oak

-- Patty Putnam (littlegoats@wi.rr.com), June 14, 2001.

Yeah, but I talked to the local Co-op and they said that what I actually needed was bentonite. They said it was the same thing and that it is used to keep feed from clumping. The stuff they sold me looks like kitty litter. Is that what I need? I am so confused. I am about to the point where I don't even WANT to bother with bentonite/diatomaceous earth.

-- Gailann Schrader (gtschrader@aol.com), June 14, 2001.

Hope there's an answer here. I'm just as confused with all this!! I'm living in "Hooterville, USA" (might become an island soon with ALL this @**! RAIN) I'll probably have to order the stuff on-line. I've have heard GR-rrreat things about it though. Any one know where to order it at???

Debb

-- Debb (fly45@bellsouth.net), June 15, 2001.

Try www.groworganic.com. They seem to have all the interesting stuff.

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), June 15, 2001.

What you're looking for is NON-heat treated diatomaceous earth as opposed to heat treated DE which is used for filtering material. I haven't bought any in a while (bought twenty five pounds several years ago) but I used to find it in lawn and garden stores around town while the pool filter DE was always confined to the pool supply area and generally only from pool chemical suppliers. It's hard to get them confused if they're still in their original packaging.

A lot of folks talk about "food grade" DE when they really mean non-heat treated DE. The USDA and FDA are pretty particular about what they mean by the term "food grade". I've never seen a package of DE that actually said "food grade" on the package labeling though perhaps by now someone has gone to the trouble to take their source through the approval process and actually get it approved.

Unless there is some form of chemical contamination involved neither type is toxic, it's just that the heat treated type has a sufficiently high silicate content to make it a greater breathing and eye hazard above and beyond what non-heat treated DE is. Both types should be used carefully because you don't want to be breating a lot of it nor getting a lot of it into your eyes or mouth.

={(Oak)-

-- Live Oak (oneliveoak@yahoo.com), June 15, 2001.

Hey Kris, Thanks for the URL that is a great place to check out. Just wish a neighbor had the stuff so I could see it and be for sure I would be getting the right stuff. I also found on a web site that I use a LOT for all kinds natural- organic health for self and my pets and found info about this bentonite. I just hadn't been there for a while, but it is just loaded with good FREE help

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/clay.htm

Hope this helps some one else too, Every one Have a Great One, Debb

-- Debb (fly45@bellsouth.net), June 15, 2001.

Kris, harmoney farms in calif carrys it, there phone # is 707 - 823 - 9125 and 1lb is i.oo and 50lbs is 17.75.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), June 15, 2001.

I bought a DE product called Concern to take care of my carpenter ants. I called the company since my chickens free range and they were the first ones to tell me that organic farmers feed it to their stock for worm control. I found it in both the health food store and garden nursery. Got rid of the carpenter ants, nest and all in no time. I also got rid of the lice on my goats.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), June 15, 2001.

I got my DE at Pioneer Organics in Waterville, Nova Scotia. Its beige with a consistency that reminds me of cornstarch..not pebbly at all. They also carry bentonite in their catalogue. Since I got a sheep with loose stools that I can't catch yet I have been adding DE to the ration and to the mineral mix. As soon as I can catch her she's getting a dusting with a 50/50 mix sulphur and DE for pest control (it was a recommendation in the Pioneer Organics catalogue). Until I found Pioneer I couldn't find things like greensand and DE locally at all. So called experts in the stores would look at me like I was insane. You could try emailing them to see if they can give you the name of their supplier. pioneer.organics@ns.sympatico.ca

-- Alison in N.S. (aproteau@istar.ca), June 16, 2001.

In response to DE. one person was told that Bentonite was the same thing. WRONG, Bentonite is Clay, DE is Diomatious Earth,from a little critter called a Diatom, from thousands of years ago, and is mined from old planet Earth. DE is used to filter the finest of wines and many other purposes, Bentonnite is uised to seal off oil wells and stop leak around foundations as it claim to fame is that it SWELLS up many times its original size. Please investigate thjese claims

This is to the person who was told that Bentonite was the same as DE. Well DearHeart you were lied to! DE came from a little critter called a Diatom, which swam in the oceans so long ago that the oceans have dried up, they were very plentiful and we can now mine them. DE is used as filtering agent, primarily for wine. Bentonite is clay, and it's claim to fame is that is swells up many time its size and will seal off whatever is leaking, bottoms of ponds, basements perimiters, but mainly to seal off wells to keep them from leaking. I hope that this will clear up this misconception.

-- Wayne & (LYN) Roach (R-Way@msn.com), June 17, 2001.

SORRY about the double answer, but I hit a button and everything dissapeared. I thought I had to start over, thus saying the same thing differently. I'm not too stupid, just have fat fingers on this keyboard.

-- Wayne & (LYN) Roach (R-Way@msn.com), June 17, 2001.

ROFL @Wayne. I have fat fingers too. :o) But that answer was really informative so I don't think anyone would mind it! Bentonite is also used as a supplement to increase milk fat levels, increased feed consumption, and more rapid weight gains when fed at 2% of the total feed ration (I am quoting Pioneer's catalogue). It says its also known as montmorillonite. It is so sad that the feed store person didn't know DE from bentonite (poor expert advice) but its not a total lost cause I guess. Regarding the difference between the two DE's...I was under the false impression for a long time that the two were one and the same! Some gardening book I read a while back recommended going to the pool supply store and buying it in bulk rather than the specialty mixtures from various companies for insect control. Am I ever glad that I didn't get around to buying a bag then!!! This forum is an invaluable source of practical knowledge!!!

-- Alison in N.S. (aproteau@istar.ca), June 18, 2001.

Kris, So glad that you asked this I had been wondering too. Every one final broke through my pea brain and I think? I get it now. Also I found these sites, they might help. http://www.invisiblegardener.com/magazine/online_magazine/pages/de_tip .htm

http://www.biconet.com/crawlers/DE.html The above place seems fairly reasonable for those of us that have to order this on line. Though I haven't the foggest idea if it is or not?

Thanks, Have a'good'en Debb

-- Debb (fly45@bellsouth.net), June 18, 2001.