All,

I'm interested to know if any one of you have ever purchased a HUD home, or know of anyone that did. I'm wanting to know the good, the bad, and the ugly about it.

I am thinking about making a purchase of one, ON some acreage that is as close to the dream house that I and my husband have been wanting. I'm thinking about making an bid THIS week, early next week at the latest.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Answers

I don't know if anyone I know bought one.

Ours is a Babcock home. A popular builder from the sixties around Miami. don't know if they are still in business.

The houses held up well in Andrew, as long as the homeowner has kept it in good condition. Some of the rat traps around here were totaled.

We have a couple house in our neighborhood that are built as 'kit' homes. the walls and roof are sections that connect together. Each is a finished piece, and placed together on the slab [foundation] and anchored. I believe the wiring is also already inside the panels.

Very small homes, from the outside. One was rebuilt with concrete block after Andrew because it was situated out of line with the surrounding homes and therefore took more of the brunt of the wind.

there are lots of plans available in magazines, on line, and through local builders. Are HUD homes lower in price, or is there some benefit such as a tax break connected to them?

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Barefoot,

HUD homes are FHA homes that have been foreclosed on and now are owned by HUD (Dept. of Housing and Urban Development).

I know that this specific home has a few problems (crack in the slab), but I am willing to fix it (and it is required for purchase of this home).

We know that we can spend around 10K to fix this place up (and that 10K will be included in the mortgage) and have a home that is a good home at a good price. Currently, they are asking 83,700 for the home, so I know that I'll have to borrow around 90K to have all the required problems fixed. Still, once these items are fixed, the home will be worth at least 120K. I know in some areas, 120K isn't that much, but for out in the country OK, that is a higher end home. There are over 2000 sq ft in the house.

The house is a rock home, with some Tudor accents. We have fallen in love with the layout, and that of the property. (One thing that 'spoke' to me was when seeing the driveway, there are two massive rock retaining walls with built in stair step type of levels - INSTANT FLOWER BEDS!!!) The overall home is impressive.

There is also a two story 'tree house' attached to about 4 trees in the back yard. My son has been wanting a tree house, and well, this is his tree castle. It has double pane windows, eletrical outlets, lights, and even two beds upstairs in the treehouse. Oh yeah, it is even carpeted!

The back yard is enclosed behind a 9 foot high wooden fence. So, my mommy dog won't be able to jump it. (She has taken a habit lately of jumping the chain link fence where I currently live.) There will be more room for both dogs.

Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Sheeps, it sounds wonderful!

I don't have any experience with HUD homes, but I would imagine that they have been inspected rather closely (as is evidenced by their requirement that the crack be fixed). Have you been able to find out if there was a thorough inspection and are you able to look at it? That's something I'd definitely do, if you haven't already.

I've always understood that you really can get some bargains by buying a HUD home, and it sounds like this is the case for y'alls. Everything sounds great, and *I'd* like a tree castle, too! :-)

Keeping our fingers crossed for ya'!

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Brooke,

I can't see the official inspection UNTIL I puts my money where my mouth is (ie earnest money), and start the paperwork.

I have my eyes on the tree castle as well... heck with my son, as it can become my sewing studio! :) But alas, I'll give it to him.

I am having a foundation repair person go out to look at it early next week and give me an estimate as to the costs of the foundation repair. From what I have told the ones I have spoken to, they estimate between 2k and 4k for the foundation. (That isn't really that bad!) I know that there is a problem with the well, just not sure if a new one needs to be dug or the old one just cleaned out. If a new one needs to be dug, that'll be between 2.5 and 3K. Things like carpet and wall paper.... heck I'll do that myself! It'll be MY home and I'll get exactly what I want.

My fear is that something is lurking there that I don't know about yet, that will make it not work the effort. Am I willing to risk the loss of 1K just to find out what that thing is, if indeed there is something? That is the question.....

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Ah, I see now.

Some of the homes in our area were such, both before and after the storm.

this house sounds like a winner. You say it is out in the country, a rural setting. I wonder about the well, and if it and the grounds have been checked for pollutants and such. I wonder how much it would cost for such a test/study and whether it would benecessary...

if I was in your shoes, I would jump at it just on your discription! Although I am partial to having a two car garage for the cars, not for storage. I really want a two car garage. We have a carport now, and it was fine for our two small cars in bad weather, but now we can only get one in because the other is a truck, and takes too much room. course we let the back of the truck stickout, but if something happens to it, then it blocks the other car from getting out, so a two car garage would be preferable. One day, maybe...

good luck on the house. How is the chi?

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Barefoot,

The house has a two car attached garage. Drive in and walk thru a door and unload the preps in the kitchen. Speaking of kitchens, this kitchen has PLENTY of cabinets. Cabinet space has been the main killer in the houses we have been looking at, or maybe I should say lack of cabinet space. There is also a pantry that is huger than huge.

The only thing that would be a nice to have that this house doesn't is a basement. Don't know why, but basements aren't that common around here.

About the well, even if the water isn't potable, I wouldn't mind to have bottled water delivered. I could use whatever water was there for washing and such. Oh, and it has a water softener as well.

My brain hurts from thinking about his. However, this would make a wonderful birthday present for my husband. He just left for deployment, and doesn't know what I'll do. We have made the determination that I will purchase the home, since he still has the house in Maryland. He is thinking that if he is on the mortgage, with an existing mortgage, that will put the interest rates WAY up.

If I do buy it, wonder what he'll do next year to top it for me? LOL!!!!!

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Sheeple. . .

Do you know if you are allowed to have an independent inspection? I know that would cost extra bucks, but it also might be peace of mind, too. And . . .I'm wondering if the independent inspection found things that the "official" inspection did not, if that would give you any 'leverage' if you did have things go wrong you did not expect? I'm not at all familiar how this stuff works.

Being a cautious sort, I always try to find out the "worst case" about anything, just so I don't have ugly surprises later. Some things might not make a difference to you, ever, and others might be a consideration now, or at some point down the road (like the well).

But, no matter what, there is NO such thing as a hassle-free home! Even if everything 'looks' A-OK, there almost always is something that could be listed as a problem on most inspections, and who is doing the inspection.

I sure do think this place sounds like a winner.

Just wondering out loud . . .

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Brooke,

I can have an independent inspection, and it'll cost between 450 and 750. There is one problem with this, as the utilities have to be on! Currently the utilities are off, as I know that the house has been vacant since at least October 26th last year. I know that the realtor will have then turned on (at FHA/HUD's expense) for their inspection, which must occur again just before closing. I don't think they'll do it just so that I can get it inspected, but it is worth asking.

What I find most strange is that, and I quote, "it is against the law for me to tell you what the previous inspection showed or to show you the paperwork for that inspection". Why? Why is it illegal, when I will pays my money and see it anyway? I'm just trying to do the cost benefit analysis on this property.

The realtor asked me how much I would be willing to pay for a property (not this specific property but a property in general). My response was, "What does it matter if this is the property that I want?" She didn't know what to say. I wonder if their $$$$ isn't as much on a HUD home as it would be on a non-Hud home? I'm willing to put 20% down, but she doesn't know that. Think she'd drool at the possibilities of getting me into a much more expensive property if she did? I won't be pushed into buying something that I don't want...

Hard headed Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

GET THE INDEPENDENT INSPECTION!!!!

And be sure that your inspector is an expert on plumbing, electrical, roofing, and foundation repairs.

If I had more time, I'll fill up several pages with horror stories from folks who "fell in love" with a HUD home and cut corners with inspections. That cracked slab you mentioned is particularly worrisome. In some cases, the house needs to be jacked up before the crack can be fixed, which can run into some major bucks.

Please take a deep breath, step back, and bring in an expert to look it over.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Meemur,

The man that is going to inspect the foundation next week is an expert at foundation repair. His estimates for one of two options (each around 2K) or a combination of the both (the 4K). He did talk to me about having the plumbing inspected with the camera to see if by chance there was a crack in any of the plumbing that caused the foundation crack. I have since found a plumbing contractor which will perform this inspection free of charge for me. Normally, they cost about 350/hr.

By looking at the surrounding land, I think that the problem was caused because a retaining wall was not installed around the back and side of the home. That is what my husband thinks as well. We will see. The land is sloped, gently but it is sloped. It appears that they had to build up the land to have the flat spot for the foundation. Thus, any water moving across the land could cause erosion, and there is some evidence of it. A retaining wall should fix this problem, if that is what caused the problem.

Before anything is final, rest assured that I will have the house AND land inspected to MY satisfaction.

Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Sheeple, we bought a HUD home. At least it was a HUD home when we put our non-refundable escrow on the home and started the bidding process. Then suddenly the home was dropped from the HUD financing program and we had to scramble to get a bank to lend us the mortgage. We were never given a clear reason why.

After we acquired the home we discovered some VERY bad plumbing layout -- it was illegally hooked up. When we needed some work done on it, we hired a plumber friend who helped us get the basic problem fixed without involving a permit process.

The wiring was weird too. We had a huge breaker box with lots of switches, and for some unknown reason, the entire load was attached to two breakers. We were able to separate the wiring junctions ourselves.

The foundation in the back room was an addition. When I crawled under the house to look at it, I discovered that the foundation wall was built across the lip of an underground water cistern that had been built outside of the original house floorplan. Also the blocks in that foundation addition weren't even filled with concrete. They were hollow blocks stacked empty with some concrete stucco over chicken wire on the outside surface to make it look solid.

When we sold the house, we discovered that the "clear" title we had been given when we bought the house from the government was suddenly no longer "clear". Someone who owned the house five transfers back had his name spelled two different ways on the title. We had to find a slumlord willing to buy it in spite of the title difficulty.

I'm not trying to talk you out of buying this house. If this house is inspected by someone NOT working for HUD and it sounds ok, then it probably will work out. I do want to caution you that wanting something badly may blind you to serious faults or cause you to underestimate the amount of rehab work needed.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

Helen,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Before you wrote, I had already made the determination to have at least one more inspection done, maybe even two. (two sets of eyes are better than one!) One will be a structural engineer.

I have been informed that I'll be responsible for the utilities for when I have my own inspections done, and that I have 15 days from the acceptance of my bid for my inspections and for me to back out.

I'll be making the phone calls in the AM to set them up. (I'll get them up for two to three weeks from the beginning of next week, with the knowledge that I may change the date before then)

I'm going to have a full title search performed, so that I will know that my title is clear.

I have never bought a house before, although my husband owns one in another state. He is currently away, and thusly won't be able to tell me what to look for/do. I've been doing my research. Let's just say that it'll be hard for them to pull the wool over this Sheeple's eyes. It is possible, but I'm going to have everything inspected and double checked. Heck, I may do this before I even submit the bid! I do know that the house doesn't have to be brought down to the ground and rebuilt. From what I saw, the only thing I'm worried about is the foundation crack. It isn't that bad, but I want to take the steps necessary to make sure it is taken care of once and for all.

The other items that they had listed were what I consider to be small items, and items that I would have had done with our without them (before I moved into the house). Things like remove the vines from the house... You've seen them Tudor (or rock) houses with vines growing up them... Gutters installed, the garage door needs to be replaced. Some of the windows need to be weather stripped.

I'm going to be changing the carpet, a complete referb of the master bathroom, and possibly the kitchen before I move in. While I love the kitchen (I'll keep cabinets where they have them), the existing ones are way to dark for my taste. I have found out today, that the well indeed has water. I'll have to do my own tests (and of the septic system as well), but I have no problem with that. I may have another well dug to reach into another aquifer (sp), as there appear to be numerous ones here and it depends on how far you go down is to which one you are on. I'll be able to have the lawn to go with the house that way! :)

I'm going to sleep on it until at least Monday. Hopefully by then my husband will be somewhere in the world where he'll be able to call me. I'll tell him everything I found out and we'll make the decision together on if I should 'try' to do it or not.

Currently, he doesn't know that I'm already prequalified for the house (did that today, but he left this morning). They are awaiting on me. If we make the determination not to purchase, maybe I'll be looking for another home like this, just not a HUD home. I haven't seen one quite like this, so that is why I'm wanting it so badly. Oh, but this too shall pass if it isn't the right thing.

If I do indeed go ahead with the bid/purchase, I'm thinking about telling him that we'll make the choice when he returns home. When he returns home, I could say HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

A woman's gotta keep a birthday present a surprise now and again!

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2001

You need a lawyer! Seriously, Sheeps, talk to a real estate attorney, don't rely on the one the real estate agent is using. Your offer will contain the words, "contingent upon satisfactory inspection." That leaves you a lot of wiggle room, since "satisfactory" is very subective. But do talk to a lawyer, who will be up on your state's and even county's real estate contract requirements and will know where They can trip you up (you know, Them, the real estate agents and so on).

I have to tell you that in my experience, being involved in the purchase and/or sale of three homes, real estate agents are not high on my list of Most Respected Persons. Their ethics make Bill Clinton look like Ghandi, generally speaking.

I can't imagine why it's against the law for you to see the previous inspection report. Tells me that the owner of it (the bank?) doesn't want you to see it. Agents have always asked me if I had an inspection report from when we bought the house and we've made it available to prospective buyers--with nothing signed on my part, just handed over a copy.

And you have to ask yourself--if it's such a great house, why hasn't someone else made a bid? It's well within the price range for the average investment property--that's well under what rental houses sell for around here.

I do hope it works out, though, it sounds like a lovely house.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

Old Git,

Your questions are very good ones. I've personally always thought of Real Estate brokers as lower than shark food, thus lawyers wouldn't even touch them. But that aside...

Getting a lawyer (see comment above) is a good idea. I'll check into locating one today, but won't make a full commitment to them at this moment. I haven't made up my mind 100% that I am going to purchase this home. I don't believe that this home is currently open for investors, as HUD prefers owner/occupants over any other kinds of sales. I do know that there have been two contracts on the house in the past (around March), but they busted. I can't find out why, but I'm wondering if it is because they couldn't gain financing. Who knows.

I do know that I am tired of renting this house. My hubby has rented it since 95, and I have lived in it since 96. It is time that I get the benefits of home ownership, along with some of the hassles that go along with it.

I guess I need to sleep on it some more.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

Just one more peek from the peanut gallery. . .

Sheeple, if I read correctly that this is your first house, let me suggest continuing to look around for a structure that doesn't need quite as much work. I'm speaking from personal experience. When I was in my late 20s, I purchased (with cash) a moble home on its own land. I rebuilt the moble home from the inside out and sold it for a profit. Sounds cool, right? The reality was that I lived with a constant state of stuff under repair or stuff needing repair. I have a lot of patience, but I finally got fed up with the mess. My next purchase, an actual house, only needed new windows all around, a project I contracted out that was finished in a week. What a relief to live in a place without problems!!

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

peek = peep

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

Update,

Well, since the realtor couldn't (by law) or wouldn't tell me what was needing to be fixed, I contacted the people that foreclosed on the home and hold this property for HUD. The nice gentleman understands my questions, and while he could not show me the apprasial, he did tell me everything on there that is noted as needing to be fixed.

There are two items (both plumbing) that I am concerned with. The first is that one of the showers (which one???) doesn't work. If it is the shower in the master bath, no big deal, cause we were planning on ditching the one that was in there anyway. The second item that causes me concern is that the kitchen sink doesn't work. I was wondering what 'doesn't work' means. He said that he didn't know. (My guess is that it isn't getting any water.) So, now I am wondering if the plumbing under the foundation is what is causing these two items not to work. I don't know. But from all of this, I have made the determination that there is water in the well, or how else would/could they know what didn't work? Oh, and there is a leak under one of the sinks.

I am so hoping that my husband calls tonight, so that I may relay everything to him to see how he feels. I'd hate to pass on this house for him to say that those were relatively minor things and that he thought the house was still a great deal.

I took my MIL over last evening to show her. She fell in love with the house as well. She thinks that I'm getting a bargain. I know that she has frequently in the past purchased homes and refurbished them to sell them for a profit. She does most of her work herself, with the exception of items like foundation repair.

Sheeple - who is thinking of flipping a coin at this moment!

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

Aaaaaaargh! Plumbers! Those people charge more than heart surgeons! We had a shower leak and a sink leak fixed. A new basin and faucets (which I bought) were put in one bathroom, new basin and toilet (which HE bought, plain vanilla, low end of scale) in the other bath--2-1/2 days, 1500 bucks.

I'm thinking that crack might be caused by water pipes in the slab which have busted.

Have learned not to buy a house built before about 1960-65 cos things started to get really crappy after that.

I'm with Meemur on this--it sounds like a bit too much work. Very suspicious that two contracts fell through. Generally speaking, realtors don't do all that paperwork unless they've done some preliminary checking about the buyer's finances. Could be the prospective buyers had inspection reports they couldn't live with.

Hope you're looking at other houses so you won't be too disappointed if this one falls through.

How are the puppies? Pictures?

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

if someone told me "The sink doesn't work" the first thing that comes to mind is drain. Otherwise it would be The faucet doesn't work.

or so it seems to me.

I wonder how the kitchen sink, and shower, and the cracked foundation are in relation to each other? Sink and shower on same water/sewer feed? shower above sink? Crack in foundation very close, as opposed to foundation crack on opposite side of house?

If sink and shower are together, and crack is below them, then I would take that to mean they are connected as one problem. And when you fix the crack, the water and sewer lines would have to be fixed as well, which would be cheaper than having to do separate excavations. Definitely something to think about.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

OG,

Maybe you are correct, but this is something only my husband and I can determine. (Plus any input from an inspector that I hire).

As for the puppies, I have 3 left. We got their shots on Tuesday and 4 of them were gone by that evening. I got another one gone last night and one this morning. I'm holding one until Tuesday, as the girl that is getting it is having a house full of relatives from all over the country. I only have two unspoken for, but have some maybe's on them. I'm figuring that I can find them homes in a couple more weeks. Heck, they've already had their first round of shots now.

I haven't really taken many more pictures as of late, as they won't stay still long enough to get their picture taken. When you walk into their room or the backyard, they pack all around you. They made it so hard to walk. Weren't smart enough to realize that if they just let me walk to where I was going that I'd sit and pet/play with them.

I'll check to see if I can find a few more recent.

Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

Barefoot,

You are correct about the sink vs faucet thing, at least in my thinking. Why didn't I think of that before? We have a snake, think it would fix the drain problem?

As to the location, the kitchen is on one side of the house, and the bathrooms on the other. The foundation crack is about 1/3 of the way from the bathrooms going toward the kitchen. As far as are they on the same feed, tough to tell, and I doubt that I'll know unless I can get my hands on the origional blueprints for the home.

Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

Okay, my educated guess is that the water line comes from the well into the house and shoots straight to the furthest fixture, with a branch to the others.

The sewer line will be similar, with the outgo throught the foundation nearest where the septic tank is. Since it is rural I am assuming the septic tank.

if you know where the septic tank is, the shortest distance to the house is the norm for running the pipe. if that corresponds to the crack, then I think it would be a safe assumption that the 'doesn't work' description refers to the sewer line, and thus the drains.

Most likely the sewer line, or soil pipe as that black pipe is called, has started to leak under the house. The pieces are slipped together, and the joins are sealed with lead. The lead is tamped into the joins, and can come out over time. We had a plumber snake ours and he ripped out the lead seal from a join and told us that was what was causing the backing up, the lead was blocking the pipe, and the solids where getting congested there. Now of course it leaks right into the ground and is probably letting sand in as well. We stopped using the toilet on that line, and the washer machine drains outside on the nanas, so the volume is lower, and only water from a shower and sinks.

If the crack corresponds to where your best guess is for the septic tank, I think you can come to a logical conclusion as to what it will cost. If the soil pipe is constructed differently than ours, then I am probably sounding like I am full of sh;;;;; LOL

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

Sheeple, if the foundation is a concrete slab, RUN AWAY. Plumbing problems embedded inside or running underneath a concrete slab will make your life an expensive living hell.

If two contracts have fallen through, don't hurry. You may be able to get the house later after more inspection and reflection. You should keep looking at other properties so this particular one doesn't look like the only one in your mind.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

Sheeple,

Here are a couple of other things. See if your state is one that has title insurance, if so and if you buy the house, buy title insurance. This will help to make sure the title is clear and if something shows up later, it won't be at your expense.

Secondly, go to the courthouse and get the history of this house. This will tell you how much it has been sold for (and how many times) and it should tell you the amount left on the mortgage when it was forclosed on (and tell you if the realtor has jacked up the price). You may have to go to a couple of different departments to get all of this info, but it would be worth it. Also check for any building permits so you know what might have been done to the house.

In Iowa a realtor MUST tell you anything they know is wrong with the house or it is fraud. I can't believe the law would be the other way where you are.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

Beckie, we have that disclosure law too, but it only came into being two years ago. The way realtors get around it is they give the homeowner a form to sign, which says ain't nuthin wrong with this here house to the best of my knowledge. That gets the realtor off the hook and, often, the homeowner too.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

beckie,

I have done some research last night and this morning after reading your reply. This state does indeed have a disclosure law. I'm not sure how it relates or if it relates to a HUD home, since it is the federal government that owns the property. We all know that the feds outrule the state anytime. I will be checking on that today, and if they indeed have to give me disclosure, I will ask once more. If after asking and they do not provide for whatever reason, I will run away.

That being said, I went to the county commissioner's web site and did a lookup on the property. We can see the taxes and deed information for the last 10 years. I know before the house was taken, it was owned by the same people for the duration of the 90's. I'm thinking that maybe they owned the house since it was new. Maybe if I go to the courthouse I'll be able to verify.

We do have title insurance in this state, and I was already planning on having title insurance taken out above and beyond what the lender takes out.

That being said, I spoke with my husband last night. I still don't know what part of the world he is in. (Lucky guy!) Anyway, I told him that we could get the house if we wanted it. I also told him what I had found out was wrong with the house. He didn't seem to think that anything was a show stopper, and that the majority of the 10K that they are requiring be done is on the foundation. We already had plans to do more to the foundation than was required. We were wanting to get the piers as well as the mudjacking. We also discussed not getting into too much of a rush, as we both want to go over the house completely without them being there looking over our shoulders. The day that the realtor met us there the first time, she left us alone with the house, but we were unprepared. We want to get some lights and go into the attic and look for any termite damage. We're gonna bring some water in and see if the toilets work, and exactly which sinks have the leak. Plus there are the things like measuring each and every room to determine the pricing of the flooring we want to lay down. We want to spend the time to determine which light fixtures we want to have replaced. Those types of items.

We would like to have the master bathroom expanded, as it is a little small for us. It currently has a shower (that is a disaster), and would like to have a jetted tub and seperate shower installed. The room isn't that large, so we want to determine exactly what we want, so we can get estimates on that work as well.

If they are forcing me to get the rehab money up front, why not get the total rehab money. I know that I can do it, so why not? That way I won't initially drain my bank accounts, so that if anything does pop up we'll have the reserve funds to fix it.

I have been looking at other properties, both before and after we found this house. We haven't seen anything that we like as much. I don't want to settle for something that I don't really like or want. Who knows, maybe today I'll find something that I like better.

It isn't a done deal yet, and I haven't signed anything and won't until I know that I will like the finished results.

Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2001

Just in case anyone wanted to see what it looked like...

the good, the bad, and the ugly

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2001

Boy, Sheeple, you're right -- there is an awful lot to like about this house! I can easily see why you think so highly of it.

Still, there are some issues that would bother me. I'm speaking as a midwestern buyer -- maybe things are done much differently in your area.

1. NO GUTTERS and vines up around your roof. How is the water draining off when it rains? From the pictures, it looks like there is roof leakage, perhaps all the way down to the foundation. Does it smell damp and mildewy at all? Is the water draining away from the foundation? I remember reading about you having to build a retaining wall to keep water out.

2. Big trees close to the house. That means potential root problems with the septic tank. Also, badly overgrown tree branches that could come lose in a windstorm. I estimate about $1500 worth of tree trimming by my area's prices.

3. What's under that carpet? What are the floors like?

4. In several of the photos, I see places where it looks like there were long cracks in the wall and ceiling that were covered -- that says check the level of the house on the foundation.

This is a tough call, Sheeple! Lots of potential for a great house here. I, myself, would take a deep breath and walk away because there's too much work for me. I'd be willing to address remodeling the bath and the kitchen, but added to that are at least a dozen other projects, both indoor and outdoor. It would take me about two years and probably close to $20,000 to address all of the problems I saw in your photos. But your milage is going to vary! I'm sure there are things that you can live with that would annoy me and vice-versa.

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

Sheeple,

It looks like it could be a very lovely property. I can see why you are excited.

From the water spots on the ceiling in one room and possible because of the brick facing coming off (definitely have that checked all over), I wonder if there isn't a roof problem as well.

Good luck!

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

is there any possibility that you could afford to raze the house and rebuild?

I'll tell ya up front that I love looking at houses like that, empty, with no history known. Sometimes I can make guesses about past occupants that turn out to be close to the truth. But I get a bad vibe from those photos.

Can you guys afford to do all that may be needed? For instance, in one photo of the back patio there is a tree top showing which is full of that vine. It appears to be ill and may need to be removed.

Also, that fireplace seems to be an 'add-on' from the looks of the outside and even from the inside. The side of the chimney facing the roof pitch definitely needs to be check. Potential for major rot there if it was not installed correctly with flashing, etc. ideally, there should be a new ridge that directs water to either side of the chimney, with the new ridge centered on the upslope face of the chimney box. I'm sure the whole thing is just decorative as the fireplace only needs the pipe stack similar to what is nearer the peak of the main house roof.

I'll try to give my impression via each photo # later, after I get a few things done this morning. I agree completly with your kitchen re-fit strategy. Whew!

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

Oh, forgot to mention I love the rock walls out at the drive entrance, but I think you may need those rocks to repair the house facade later...

What area of the country is this in? is there a lot of snow? Which way does the property slope for drainage? Does it follow the natural slope of the area? some builders will add back fill to make the land more 'user-friendly' when in actuality the user will find that the land erodes over time and reverts to a more natural slope as it was originally. Are any of the neighboring properties sloped in such a way to cause yours to flood?

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

Sheeps, wold I be correct in assuming that you took these photos in the morning, say about tenish?

If so, then I would say that the front faces west, the back faces east.

Also, to help with picturing the overall layout, the kitchen and pantry are behind the garage, the breakfast room is behind the dining room, and the family room is behind the living room. which would put the bedrooms on the far side of the front door, with the master bedroom at the back of the house, i.e. that rock wall with no windows to the left of the chimney? the bathrooms are between the master and the others, along with the closets, as sound buffers?

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

All,

The pictures were taken in the afternoon, and the front of the house faces east. But it doesn't matter anymore.

My husband has rented this house we are currently in since 96, so we know the property manager really well. Nice lady. She was the one that I called about the disclosure laws. She went out and walked the house for me. Her words to me were "You couldn't give that house to me". I have since forgotten about it. There are way to many foundation cracks that are not exposed. She knows her stuff.

We sat for about 2 1/2 hours this morning looking at the MLS listings and I selected 29 that I wanted to see. Went to the first couple, and they didn't 'call out to me', even though they were perfectly wonderful homes.

The third home that we went to, I almost died. The disclosure has already come back, and nothing is known to be wrong with it, but I'll determine more when/if I go forward and have the house inspected. The new house is brick with some siding. Not my favorite, but hey can't have everything. The home is 3758 sf, has an inground pool. The kitchen is at least 500 sf. Absolutely beautiful!

While the owners have already moved (AF transfer - musta been brass instead of grunt to afford that home) and utilities weren't on, the temperature in the home was around 70. Lots of tile floor, has 5 bedrooms, 3 1/2 baths and seems to go on forever. They are willing to eat a bunch of money to sell the home, and it is going for about 50 grand below 'market value'. Still, this home is 140K. Don't worry, I'll have this one checked out really well to determine if it is just too good to be true. I know the pool still holds water, as it was full and green!

With only 1/2 acre, it isn't as much as we wanted, but my husband says he'll accept 1/2 acre. Wish he was here to see it, but he will be in just under 3 weeks.

I'm meeting the realtor (my landlord) back out there at 3pm my time today, so that I can take pictures. The page above will go away sometime Monday or Tuesday, so that I can update it with the pictures of the new house. That way, when my hubby gets to a place where he can surf, he'll be able to see it and say yeah or nay. Somehow I figure that after he picks up his jaw, that he'll only be able to nod.

There are two rooms that have carpet removed, so I know that the slab there is good, no cracks. The realtor walked all of it and didn't see anything that would make her think there was cracks there.

For all that don't know, I'm just outside Oklahoma City to the east a bit. Wonder if my son will settle for an inground pool instead of a tree house? Whadda bet his answer will be yes? ;)

Gots to go round him up. I'm taking him and his friend this time. Earlier they were at his friends ball game, thus he hasn't seen it yet.

Thank you Everyone for making me stop and think a little. I'd really like to thank my realtor too, and I shall. Hmmmm, wonder if she drinks home-made wine?

Later ,

Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

I think you're moving on a better track now, Sheeple. Just keep getting lots of opinions. I looked at nearly 45 houses before I bought my present one. I "bothered" my realtor to no end because she kept showing me places with "pretty" decor and I wanted a solid basement, no need for a sump pump, plaster walls, and working plumbing. I rejected most of the places for cracked walls in the basement and eventually bought a house that didn't have a basement, since most have major foundation or flooding problems in my area. I've been here six years and am so far delighted with my purchase, but the process was PAINFUL!!

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

back now. My MIL wanted to move in today!

The only thing that may be a concern (that we know of) is one of the central air units, as it is kinda old. There are two of them on the house. If only my husband were here. We'll have to wait a little closer for him to return anyway, as he'll have to sign something before closing saying that the house is mine. We aren't going to have him on this mortgage, due to him being sole owner of the house in Maryland. Thank Goodness his ex-wife finally signed the quit- claim deed for that property.

I took 20 something pictures and will get them on-line at the above address soon. The house has at least 10 rooms, plus there is a work building out back that is at least 500sf. It has power and air as well, although the air to it is two window bangers.

Still, I haven't made up my mind, and will continue looking, but this home has a LOT of potential to be a good investment, as I think I could buy it and sell it later for more than it is being asked for now. There is another huge company that is going to be opening a plant here in the next year to 18 months (Corning making fiber), and the housing for larger homes isn't really that good, unless you start talking in the 2 1/2 to 300K range.

Oh well, I'll let you all see what you think of it when I post the pics of this one. As far as I can tell, other than laying carpet in two rooms, it is move in ready.

Sheeple

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

Honey, if their selling at 50k below market, if you buy it you just made 50k!

Especially if you know there will be a market for it in 18 months!

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

Sheeple, Can I move in with you? I miss the swimming pool we had in AZ so much, but putting one in here in IA is probably going to happen when I win the lottery :)

One thing and I am sure you are aware of it, you are in tornado alley, please if the house you get doesn't have a basement, please put in a storm cellar either under a part of the house or as a root cellar in the back yard.

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

I'll just mention this as food for thought: there is a concept called "aging in place," and that means evaluating your home for your future needs: is there room for a wheel chair? Is there a full bathroom on the main floor? Are there a lot of steep steps between the house and driveway or garage? One problem with a large home is that it will cost a fair amount to heat and cool it. If you are truly buying a large home with the thought of resale soon, that's cool, but if you think this is a home you will live in for awhile, you might want to think about the "aging in place" concept. I know that it's unpleasant, but it kept me from buying a three-bedroom place. With the new windows, it's easy to keep my little house quite warm in the winter and cool in the summer without having to work a lot of OT to keep up with the bills! Swimming pools are wonderful, but be sure to add the monthly costs to your budget. Chemicals aren't cheap! ):

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

New pics are up...

see em here"

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

Sorry I've been absent from here for a while; I kept trying to get ehre but something always came up.

I love the new pics! If the inspection checks out, buy it! My house is worth 150k and isn't nearly as nice--is on 1/4 acre and is less than 1900 sf. I can't think of any place within an hour's drive--more!!!--with that kind of a bargain.

I love all that stained wood. You know what that means? Not as much painting!

AC? How about a geothermal heat pump? The new heat pumps don't blow such "cool" air as the old ones. I think they call 'em geothermal--the installer buries a hose below the frost line, where the temp stays about 55 degrees all year round. The heat pump can take enough heat out of the water in that hose to heat your house. Next time we need a new unit, I'm definitely going with another heat pump--screw this gas heat/electric AC deal. We had a heat pump in Norfolk and it was EXTREMELY economical and comfortable. I'll also go with the hose-in-ground version, which saves even more money. And I'll check back issues of Consunmer Reports for the most reliable unit to buy.

Meemur's notes on "aging in place" are immensely valuable. We could manage a ramp on our house but I'd much rather sell this place eventually and find a house with no or only one or two steps. (We have six or seven.) I know I'm going to need a crip-friendly house since my knees are already shot.

BTW, I am drooling over all those cabinets in the huge kitchen.

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

meemur,

the house would age great, as the master bedroom and bathroom are on the same level as the front door. You could get into the house by either the front door, the garage, or the screened in porch (which I forgot to take pictures of) that runs along the width of the house from the garage side. There are two doors on that side, one going into a small hall way, and the other going into the kitchen.

The house is heated by gas, and I have the fireplace insert which I bought in 98. The insert will heat a home of 2000 sf to about a constant 80 degrees. While the house is larger, I can't help but think that the insert will cut a bunch off the heating bill.

I would buy this house for the kitchen alone! Oh, and it is 360 sf not 500. I can't tell distances very well, but when I looked on the print out, it gave the dimensions.

Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

I'd buy it in a heartbeat!

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

I think you have a winner here. The pool just needs shock treated and it will clean up quickly - didn't look as bad as the one at the house we moved into in Phoenix. Plenty of room to do what ever you want with the house with all those bedrooms.

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

Ah! Just saw the photos. 100% better than the last place! You'll have a little work to do, but I don't see anything that'll stretch out over months. Good place! If it checks out with the inspector, go for it! (I'll bet it does . . . it looks like it was built with some forethought and care)

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

SAR is going to love that front porch! LOL

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

About the pool--is it near the property line and, if so, are there shrubs for privacy? Down the street from us, some people are building a house on a lot next to an established home with a pool. It's an architect-designed house and most of the windows are on the east side of the house--overlooking the pool next door. There's also a bit on the top--I'd call it a glassed-in widow's walk--which has windows all 'round. First, I think it was ill-mannered of them to design a house with all the windows overlooking the neighbor's pool; second, I can't believe the pool-owner hasn't put in some shrubs to grow and screen her pool. There's quite a bit of space between the two houses and a line of Leyland cypress would be perfect. The existing wall won't do it, not with the "widow's walk" on the second floor.

Also--don't they make a solar-operated pool crawler thingie that keeps the pool clean? And you'll have to get floating pool things so any critters that fall in have a chance of climbing on and surviving--otherwise, their soggy little bodies clog up the filters. Only other solution is to cover it when it's not in use.

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

Old Git,

The pool is situated on the right side of the back yard. There is 20 or 30 feet between it and the property line. Currently, there is a wooden fence on that side. Shrubs would be great. Red tips maybe, as I'm not sure how well a cypress would grow here. On the left side of the property is chain link (as well as the back), and the left side you can look directly down into the neighbors pool. Not sure, but I think most of the houses here have pools, but I agree it's not very nice to watch your neighbor. There is the rope thingie that goes across the pool, it was just on the fence on it's hook and not in the pool. I'm wondering if frogs count as them critters? There are some small frogs having a wonderful time in their own private lake right now!

Hubby saw the pictures, and at first he wasn't sure how he felt about the house. Said it was dark. I agree, but I can see beyond that and see how bright it can be. Cosmetics is all. He wants me to go back and take more pictures, especially of the shop, the screened in porch (which I forgot), the appliances, and the a/c and furnace units. He wants to be able to do a little research on them.

But, after telling him the things I liked about the house, he told me to get the contract on it. I'd love to wait until he returns home to at least be able to eye ball it himself instead of having to have his say based upon pictures on a web page. To me, this place screams "Welcome Home", and I can see myself growing old there. Hell, if it takes me the full 30, I'll be old when it is paid off. LOL Still, I'm thinking about doing a 15 year on it, just gots to check with the calculator. I won't scrimp on my son's schooling just to purchase a home. He said to go ahead and do it, cause if we wait it may be gone. (He's not due back until sometime the first week of July)

Good thing, one of the Chief's he knows does home inspection as a side business. He's gonna contact him about doing the inspection for us.

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

Photinia (red tips) tend to suffer from a fungal disease which not only makes them look unsightly for a long time but also kills them. And Leylands can fall prey to bagworms. The trick you play is plant the Leylands which grow VERY quickly and then plant something more desirable and pest-resistant between or in front of them, since that's the north side. (Plant behind if facing other directions.) Then you cut them down (not during nesting season--best fall or late winter) when the "real" shrubs begin to provide screening. If you water them very well the first year, they should grow by leaps and bounds--they will surprise you. I have some 8 years old and they're probably 40' tall already.

Dark--yes, we have paneling in several rooms and it's dark--but you really get to like it when you don't have to paint it! And of course you lighten it up with pale carpet, big light pictures and wall-hangings. And lamps everywhere. Bright bluish-white ceilings help too.

Mortgage pay-off? LOL! I'm gonna be DEAD when ours is paid off! Maybe not--I was paying extra on the principle for a good while until the finances tightened up a bit. Luckily, with VA there's no penalty for early pay-off.

Oh this house sounds so much better and you're HAPPIER about it, ya know? You just sound more confident about this one. Damn, we have no pool, no porch, no workshop, no garage (carport), no NUTHIN sexy, and our house is worth about the same!

-- Anonymous, June 18, 2001

Someone showed me how to brighten up the pictures, so now they look as close to what they really are, as best as I can remember. You may want to check em out again, as I think you'll be able to see them more clearly.

Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 18, 2001

Hey, Sheeps! David is a tree-man! I know he's up to his armpits in leaves and branches at the moment, peak season for him, but he probably would have some excellent suggestions for you if you need them.

-- Anonymous, June 18, 2001

Sheeple, the kitchen alone is a major selling point. My only concern from looking at the pictures is about the funky v-shaped roof angle in the back. You will need to watch that area closely to make sure leaks don't develop. Do you have access to the underside of the roof?

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001

helen,

Indeed that is an area to be concerned with. Depending upon when you looked at the page, I added a whole lot more pictures this morning of things that my hubby wanted to see, especially inside the shop. Anyway, I took as close up of a picture of that spot of the roof as my camera would allow me from being on the ground.

From the attic you can get to all the roof of the house. I went thru the house again yesterday for about 3 hours looking for every single flaw I could find. There are a few minor things, but nothing that is a show stopper. I was trying to find a reason not to put down an offer.

Anyway, hubby called me last night (his last time he'll be in contact for a while) and told me to put the offer in. He looked at the neighborhood via the satalite photos and saw the house. He liked the neighborhood and he liked what he could see when I lightened the pictures up.

I'm gonna take the gamble, as there are three other offers at the moment, and make the offer. I verified via one of the neighbors that there had indeed been activity at the house, and the three that were really interested have spoken to him (much as I did). He could say without a doubt that two of them have made offers. If two have made offers, I can't see why the third hasn't either. I know that someone was in the house after I left it on Saturday afternoon, as there were some IBC Root Beer caps there that weren't there before. We had locked the house up tight, so I don't think it was kids going in and playing.

Oh well...

Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001

I doubt that anyone offered the full price, Sheeps. But, just in case they did, offer a hundred and fifty over! If you really, really want it, make it $250 over.

Fingers crossed. . .

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001

Hubby called me today, he was about to leave for exotic ports untold. (I daydream about the exotic locations and sometimes I wish I could go with him.)

Anyway, he was drooling ALL over himself at the work shop. He had told me last night to do the offer, but he confirmed it again today. He looked the area up on the terra server and saw the neighborhood. He liked what he saw and said he could pic out the house. I tried it, and you could see the house. LOL Guess since they may be snapping pictures from way up there I better not lay out in the nude. SNORT! But if I did, they'd send a sky writer to spell out "please put it back on".

Anyway, I'm getting my letter of pre-qualificaiton tomorrow. I'm having estimates on the carpet done tomorrow evening, and my formal offer goes in on Thursday (Friday at the latest). My Realtor called the selling agent, and no decision has been made as of yet, so I have a good chance. Everybody, please keep everything crossed that you can cause I really want this house. (Eyes, fingers, legs, arms, toes... any and all will be appreciated.) When I submit my offer, my odds will be 25%... I figure if they are waiting that long, they haven't gotten the numbers they were looking for. Hey, I'm just the gal to offer them!

Giving the lady the sizes of the rooms, she comes up with a rough estimate of 6800.00 + tax for the carpet. But, heck they tore it up when they were going to replace it for someone that couldn't get financing, they can replace it for one that can!

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001

Sheeps, there was an article about houses on the other side of the golf course from us (the more desirable side) going for over the asking price and people were saying, "Duh--you can offer more than the asking price???" Well, yes, you can and it could be that those other folks you're bidding against don't know that! Also, if they do, they may have added only a hundred. I think I'd offer $250, maybe more depending on circumstances. I mean, when you're putting out that kinda moolah, what's another couple or three hundred?

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001

Update? I've been traveling. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, Sheeple.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

Well, offer is in full price. They must replace the carpet in the two rooms which they took it up in.

They still haven't said anything about the offers that were turned in 2 1/2 weeks ago. Don't know why they are being so slow on a 7 day turn around time.

But alas, if they should accept another offer, I'm still looking at MLS listings and getting the numbers of others I might be interested in looking at. Alas, after seeing that house, somehow I think the other rooms will be small. But that's okay!

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

Did those other two offers specify 7 days also? In this state the turnaround time is up to the individual.

We shall all have our breaths well and truly bated, I know.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001

Old Git,

It is the mortgage company that is supposed to turn it around within 7 days. It is a "short sale", and that is what they said their turnaround time would be.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001

Any news? I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for you.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2001

not yet! just heard from my Realtor late yesterday afternoon saying she hadn't heard anything yet! :(

Hubby is due to return early afternoon on the 3rd (or so he says it'll be early afternoon), and we have scheduled time for him to go and see the house that evening. I would let him go alone, but I really want to see the look on his face! Who knows what will happen between now and next Tuesday. My offer is good until 6pm on the 9th.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2001

Sheeple, I'm just catching up on this thread now. It's good to see what you have been so exciting about. (I was confused for a bit, because the link to the first house shows the pix of the one now under consideration.)

It doesn't seem nearly as important for this house, but I would also stress the importance of your own attorney (the realtor represents FOR THE SELLER, NOT you), and doing as much due diligence as you can. I learned a tremendous amount about the house I now have, and the one I fortunately passed on, by pulling EVERYTHING I could find at the town hall offices. It's one of the reasons I'm a strong advocate for the building permit/building inspector program. I have carefully obtained all the permits I needed since I purchased, and I think somehow it will add to the value of the house when I resell it, because there will be fewer unknowns. Also, it helped my home inspector to be able to see those documents prior to his inspection.

Looking forward vicariously to helping you create a garden (so much less dirt under my fingernails this way).

The neighbor's house looks swell as well, is it available?? ;^)

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2001

Brooks,

I have a buyers agent (my Realtor), and she is working for me in dealing with the selling agent. She has been great thus far, and she is the property manager of the house that hubby has rented for the past 6+ years. It is time we own something of our own, besides the house in Maryland that I'll never get to live in.

If they (the mortgage company) accepts my offer, I'll have 15 days to have the house inspected. I already have my inspector lined up and he is awaiting my phone call.

Sorry to say that the house next door is owned and isn't for sale. Nice older couple.

We've got the property tax records for the past decade thus far. Good idea about getting a copy of all of the previous permits on the house, as I know that the kitchen and den were added later. We've got the market analysis, and I'm trying to get my hands on the last appraisal, but not sure if I can get that document or not. My one file folder on this house is so huge that I'm about to have to start another one. :)

My Realtor knows that I want to purchase a home, and she has continued to send me information on other homes, just in case they accept one of the other offers which have been made. She'll earn her money on this deal, as I've had her running all over town!

Sheeps

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2001

Good to hear it is a buyer's realtor.

I have worked in the legal field for some time, mostly transactional work (as opposed to litigation). I feel very strongly that it is important to get all understandings up front IN WRITING. Nothing to do with trust. It simply protects what you thought you already had, given that enough things can still go wrong even if both sides are trying to cooperate.

My particular area is environmental. As an example of why building jacket records can be important... A house is currently fueled by natural gas. Doesn't mean it was always that way. The original application materials might be the only clue that the house was ever heated by fuel oil. If the tank is still in the ground, there could be a HUGE issue looming. I'm thinking you are probably natural gas all the way (that is what I would expect in your part of the country), but there might be other red flags that show up if you can assemble all the paperwork. If you can determine that the town has honest, competent inspectors, then any permits should give you that much more comfort that the house was built right.

One of the reasons I passed on the first house I really liked was that there was a really "interesting" zoning history. I decided I wanted a house with no history of special zoning issues (in this case, it needed a variance because it lacked frontage). The thinner the town files, sometimes the better.

Sounds like you're doing a very thorough job. Thanks for letting those of us in the peanut gallery have our crack at it too!

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2001