Ugh. I've never used BidPay before, and I'm sure some of you have, so I'm asking for advice.

I bid on an item last week from an overseas seller. The listed payment options included cash (well concealed, sent via airmail), international money order, Western Union, cashier's check, or BidPay. The first four options are completely unacceptable to me, but I went ahead and bid because BidPay was an option and I knew I could do that. The seller had a newish Ebay account but no negative feedback, so I figured it was okay.

BidPay, however, cancelled the transaction and sent me a note that they could not complete it because they had had too many complaints about the seller in the past. The seller, however, only got a form e-mail saying there was a technical problem with the transaction (i.e., my credit card, or something like that). He seems to be implying that I faked the e-mail from BidPay (which I forwarded to him) and he's now insisting that I send him cash or a money order.

As far as I'm concerned he's breached the Ebay contract because one of his listed payment methods isn't available, and it's his own fault. I don't really care about negative feedback -- if worse comes to worse, I don't need a damn Ebay account, anyway -- but I've never had a situation like this and I'm not sure what to do. No way in hell am I sending him cash, not after what BidPay said.

I did write to BidPay to ask for verification. Any other suggestions?

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Answers

Bumping to the new answers list, because it's all about me.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

I am not an Ebay expert, but....

If the seller's Bidpay account has been suspended, and you don't want to pay them any other way, you really don't have to. The Seller can fill out a Non-Paying bidder form to recoup their listing fees - and you end up with a warning if you are a first time offender. You can contact them, thru Rules and Safety: http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-RS.html and get their expert advice on what to do in this situation.

It would seem though, that you attempted to pay them and they were unable to accept your payment, which makes them 'a "Non-Selling Seller" - Refusing payment and failing to deliver an item at the end of a successful listing.' If I were you, I would probably take the offensive instead of defensive, and report them as such to Ebay, especially since they probably already have reports against them from other people if their Bidpay account was suspended. Have you sent Ebay a copy of the Bidpay email yet?

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

The best way to handle this would be to retract your bid. I'm not sure if you can do this after an auction closes, however. Let us know?

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Kristin makes a very good proposal. Take the position that the unavailability of BidPay when it was listed as an acceptable means of payment is a breach of the seller's duties, and report him to Ebay. I can't think of any cancellable form of payment you can arrange -- unless the item is expensive enough to warrant a formal escrow agreement. I suppose you could suggest to him that if he wants to send the item to you first, you're happy to send him a cashier's check same day the item arrives (he can verify with the bank that the check was cut). Heh. No. Kristin's right.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

I don't have anything to add to what has already been said, except to say that if you are an Ebayer, you should turn *on* your email header option if it is not already.

My husband had a tiff with a seller that started because the seller was trying to pass on his paypal costs (which is against Ebay rules.) Hubby forwarded the relevant email to Ebay and was told that they couldn't accept it as evidence without the header info included.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be something you can acquire retroactively.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2001

Thanks for the advice, guys -- thought I'd give you the follow-up.

First, I got another response from BidPay regarding the problem with the seller. Apparently he has been banned from Ebay under multiple accounts, and BidPay has had nothing but complaints. So right now, I don't even care about negative Ebay feedback ... no way am I sending this guy his $80 or whatever.

I did write to Ebay about the problem. They were 100 percent unhelpful -- the response they sent me was a cut-and-pasted form letter advising me to talk to the seller on the phone to see if we could reach a resolution. (Fortunately I also got a survey from Ebay regarding the quality of their response to my query, and boy was that fun to fill out. "How could we have been more helpful?" Well, you could have read my fucking e-mail, for one.)

Then today, the seller wrote to me again, telling me that he had a *new* BidPay account and asking me to pay him there. I told him no way. And then I forwarded his e-mail to BidPay. The least I can do is make sure no one else gets screwed, especially since Ebay won't do anything about it.

-- Anonymous, June 17, 2001

Beth,

I've been an eBay member since January 1999 and ABSOLUTELY LOVE your last reply, regarding the follow-up "How'd We Do?!" form letter that you received from eBay's SafeHarbor. eBay does not value its members. Please remember that these are the same people who still "believe that people are basically good." Yeah. They should participate in the "Ride Along" program at my husband's precinct! ;) Of course they believe it... they get paid for their services!

Last week, I encountered a problem similar to yours. Mostly, I sell items on eBay; however, I'm sure that I buy more than I should (laugh). Within our terms of sale, which we include on our "About Me" page, and within each listing, we state:

"Within 24 hours of auction's close, the high bidder will receive our "end-of-auction" message with all information necessary to complete our transaction; please reply within 48 hours of receipt. We receive a high volume of e-mail; for that reason, we kindly request that high bidders wait to contact us until receiving our message. If you do not receive our message, please initiate contact. We can neither correspond with nor accept payment from third parties, and require you to use the e-mail address associated with your User ID for all correspondence."

Last week, a bidder violated both of those terms. An auction closed, and before I could send the high bidder our message, he/she (I do neither know nor care) sent us (my husband and I) a message, stating that they "... just did not have that kind of time." That is, they did not have time to read our auction terms.

I took a deep breath (and a few hours) (laugh), and then replied, as if the bidder hadn't made their comment. After 500+ transactions, you do not truly "accept" "attitude," but it's no longer surprising." ;)

The high bidder's initial message included a name and mailing address. However, when they sent payment via PayPal (a funds transfer -- if they had read our terms, they would have noted that we do not accept fund transfers). We accept Visa and MasterCard via PayPal and Billpoint (eBay's online payment system), as well as personal checks and money orders. We recommend that bidders do not send cash, since their is no "paper trail" (a cancelled check, their portion of a money order, etc.).

PayPal sent us e-mail to "alert" us that the bidder had paid via a funds transfer, and that they had listed an "unconfirmed address." An "unconfirmed address" implies that they have not registered either a savings or checking account. If they do, PayPal makes two deposits (each less than $1.00); once PayPal makes the deposits, the PayPal member receives notification via e-mail to confirm their address. All that is required is to enter the PayPal Web site, click on "Get Verified," and then enter the amounts of each deposit. It takes all of five minutes.

PayPal advised us that if we mailed the item(s) to the bidder at the unconfirmed address, we would not be covered under their Seller's Protection Plan, which prevents "charge backs," etc. Interestingly, the name on the PayPal account differed from the one provided within the bidder's initial e-mail.

I took a few breaths, waited ONE DAY (grin), and then sent a message to the bidder, advising them that we could not accept their PayPal payment. I quoted the applicable portion of our terms, and offered two options to resolve the situation: 1. They could pay with a U.S. Postal Money order, and we would ship to any name/address. 2. We could mutually agree not to complete the transaction, and we would neither leave a negative feedback comment nor request a "Final Auction Value" fee from eBay.

The bidder's response? The next morning, I awoke to find a negative feedback comment. In true "EDP" fashion, it was directed toward me (personally) rather than the transaction... as in, "Seller is nasty." (laugh; I'm sorry).

I replied (you can respond to your feedback, allowing potential bidders to view your "side of the story") to the comment, stating the PayPal alert, the discrepancies in the name, and the unconfirmed address.

Two days later, I received a note from eBay's SafeHarbor (what a joke; my 10-year-old "soon-to-be" nephew could spot fraud better than they do). The message stated that we (our eBay User ID) had posted a member's contact information in a public area. During the more than two years that we have been eBay members, we have never received such a note. However, it was one of their infamous form letter, with "posting a member's contact information..." added.

I took a drink (laugh -- JOKING), waited ONE FULL WEEK (note that with each increasingly stressful incident, I allow more time before responding), (g) and then replied to SafeHarbor, requesting that they furnish us with specific information, including: the exact text that we have allegedly posted, the location of the post, the date and time of the post. I am awaiting a reply.

Since last summer (2000), we have had a ridiculous amount of problems with "Zero-Feedback Bidders." Many had registered with eBay on the day that we listed our item.

After we requested about 25 "End-Of-Auction Value" fee credits, a SafeHarbor representative contacted us, advising us to state within our terms that we, "cannot accept bids from members with zero feedback ratings." Of course, this is their way of saying that they do not like to refund our money. Their suggestion bothered me, since there are many honest people who are new to eBay, and we would greatly value their business. However, we did as they advised.

Since issuing the policy (many sellers have adopted this policy), we have received numerous e-mail... some are nothing but absolute filth.

Since December 2000, I have been undergoing treatment for malignant melanoma. Side effects of the surgical excisions include multiple infections, including ear infections, which have left me with extensive scarring and partial (but, permanent) hearing loss in both ears. I've also had three molars extracted; simply, my immune system cannot fight "normal" issues, such as plaque and tooth decay (sorry). I am losing my hair, have virtually no body fat, etc. My hearing loss, coupled with the loss of my teeth has resulted in my speech being unintelligable at times. In college, I studied English Literature -- academic scholarships (3), Dean's List each semester, 3.98 cumulative GPA (one "B" -- my adviser referred to it as my 'therapeutic B') (g).

Of course, being unable to correctly pronounce words is difficult for me to accept. Next week, I have an appointment with an ENT. I also have an appointment with an Infectious Disease specialist.

Each month, I have a surgical procedure to remove the melanoma. I am very fortunate in that I now (after being undiagnosed; another dermatologist, whom I saw for five years -- he treated many members of my immediate and extended families -- removed a mole from my neck in 1999, but never performed a full body check, despite my family history of malignant melanoma and the removal of a mole, and earlier, a small tumor) have an excellent dermatologist.

The surgery is performed in-hospital (I am ambulatory; if all goes well, I go home right after the procedure, as I only need a local). I have Congestive Heart Failure, and am considered a cardiopulmonary risk.

Now, the "latest thing" (g)... as Gilda Radner said, "It's always something..." is that after having four abnormal Pap smears in the last three years, I need a colposcopy; they've found "atypical squamous (sp) cells of undetermined origin." In August 2000, I first noticed swelling in my right axillary nodes, I scheduled an appointment with my OB/GYN. I am 32; he was my doctor for 16 years! Exactly one week before my appointment, my doctor suffered a massive heart attack (during his morning jog), and died at age 54. He had more than 500 patients, and since opening his practice in 1981, had hired numerous associates, opened two medical centers for women, offering: ultrasound, blood drawing and testing (at the same site -- no waiting for the results to be sent out and then returned), mammography, and more. The first available appointment for a "New Patient" with a reputable OB/GYN was not until January 25.

Sometimes, you have to laugh... about three weeks ago, I received a note from an eBay member (with a zero feedback rating), informing me that by denying her the right to bid, I am denying her "constitutional rights." She asked if I had implemented this policy due to PMS. I'm sorry, but I really had to laugh... there I was, sitting with surgical sutures in my back (in three places); I had not slept during the previous night. My sutures must remain in place for 14 days, and, TA DA (my best trick) (g)... I haven't menstruated since December, and I do not ovulate; I do not get PMS. ;)

The "woman" also informs me that her husband is a lawyer... and her point is? First, I am not violating any laws; second, her husband may be a tax attorney! ;) Regardless, within eBay's User Agreement, they state that they are just a "venue" (they must have this listed in about 500 places on the site) and that sellers have the right to refuse the sale of items to anyone.

The next day, after I did not reply, the same woman sent another note, stating that she hadn't taken her "medication." As Jim Carrey would say, "Allrighty then!" ;)

eBay does not value their members. They attempt to classify us as either "buyers" or "sellers." However, most eBay members do both. They require "sellers" to register with a credit card (they automatically deduct the "end-of-auction value" fee -- why don't they just say it -- C-O-M-M-I-S-S-I-O-N)?! ;) It takes approximately 17 days to receive a credit, and your listing fee is NOT refunded. I feel that eBay should require all members to register with verifiable ID. They will never do such a thing, since they are paid regardless of whether a seller is paid.

Last week, I changed our contact information, PayPal account, Billpoint account, etc., to my Mom's name. My husband and I had a checking account solely for eBay (it simplifies our bookkeeping, and our accountant's job); my Mom opened a checking account for that purpose.

I had verified my identity (there was a little red "ID Verify" icon next to our feedback rating) on eBay, and will do the same for my Mom. We provide personal information, which is evaluated by Equifax, and they verify that we are, in fact, who we claim to be. We voluntarily verify our ID, and pay for this "service." However, we feel that it provides an added measure of security for prospective customers.

At the beginning of each "end-of-auction message," I include a personal note. I try (that is, until they go "EDP" on me) (g) to treat each customers as I would like to me treated. My husband purchases new packing supplies (at our cost; we do not charge a "handing fee;" high bidders always pay either the exact postage or a bit less). I include a personal note with their item(s) and also add free full-size products and/or samples, if they purchase cosmetics.

My husband's work schedule is not "regular." My Mom and I agreed to "go into business together." ;) I cannot drive, and rarely go out unless I have a day without pain (few and far between -- I also have incredible joint pain and daily fevers). My Mom will fulfill my husband's duties: banking, mailing, purchasing packing supplies, etc.

We are not poor; however, the extra money helps. While we have better health insurance than many people (we have learned through discusssions) (g), there are always co-payments for doctors, diagnostic testing and medications, and there are doctors who do not accept our insurance. Our dental plan is not a good plan, since it is through the PBA, not the City. Given my current condition, our dental bills our extensive. Fortunately, our medical insurance will soon be picking up my dental expenses, as they are related to a medical condition.

Obviously, eBay's "people are basically good" belief isn't realistic, concerning business.

I use voice-recognition software, since my fingers are usually too swollen to type. However, given my speech difficulties, the software does not eliminate all problems. It now takes me several DAYS (instead of hours) to create a listing. Then, I must wonder if the item will be a "true" sale. Despite our clear terms, I still receive: international bids, bid retractions, bids from those with zero/negative/private/hidden feedback ratings, non-paying bidders, late payments, etc. I don't want to give in to intimidation and stop selling, but my eBay endeavors are beginning to take too much time.

My apologies for the rant, but I want you to know that you are not alone. I feel badly about your poor experience with eBay. Read their community boards and usenet groups and know that you are NOT alone! :)

Beth, I've reached a decision that I'd rather take the negative feedback, than deal with a dishonest person (such as the one whom you've described). It won't be long before the person with whom you've had the displeasure of encountering is "NARU'D" -- No Longer A Registered User -- although, nothing prevents them from creative another ID! ;)

Best of luck to you; don't give up on eBay; it's a great resource for discontinued linen patterns, out-of-print books, and other assorted wild items. I've found some great gifts! Last Christmas, I think that my brother enjoyed his $10 eBay stocking stuffer, as much as he did his $175 cashmere Burberry muffler/scarf! ;)

Sincerely, Elaine

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001

My experiences with e-bay have all been good. I've sold a few things that I probably couldn't have unloaded any other way, bought a couple of things that I couldn't have gotten for three times the money otherwise, and have encountered uniformly honest and prompt people, whether buyers or sellers.

But even considering that, it seems that the potential for fraud and headache is significant, and when I do use the service, I do so understanding that this may be the transaction where I get cheated or have a glitch. It hasn't happened yet, but I'm sure it's going to.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001

I feel the same way. I've had uniformly great experiences with ebay, but you never know when something will go wrong.

-- Anonymous, June 19, 2001