If given the opportunity of buying a black paint M4 that is in E++ condition vs buying an M3 in approx. same condition (apart from the aesthetic or nostalgic appeal of either), which camera would be more desirable from a technical, or photographic perspective, and why?

-- Max Wall (mtwall@earthlink.net), June 06, 2001

Answers

Of those two, my choice would be the M4. It can take a wider range of lenses (the 35 is a very important FL for use on a Leica), and the loading is much faster. However, at the price that black paint M4's fetch these days, you should be able to buy an M6, and that would be the best choice of all, given that it has a meter.

-- Paul Chefurka (chefurka@home.com), June 06, 2001.

You said from a technical standpoint, right? Ok, then go with the M4, because it is newer, and has an easier film rewind knob, and does not need "eyes" for the 35mm lens. My 2 cents worth.

-- Paul Nelson (clrfarm@comswest.net.au), June 06, 2001.

The M4 for the same reasons wrote before by both Pauls.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), June 06, 2001.

First,if the M4 Black Paint and M3 are offered at the same price, then you've either got a great buy on the M4 or are being robbed on the M3, so economically in either scenario the M4 is the better buy. Technically I agree with the above posts. I especially agree with Paul C--(unless you're getting the M4 BP for the price of an Ex++ M3) the M6 is a lot less expensive and has more framelines and a meter. I have an M4 (chrome)and I'll never part with it but I haven't used it regularly since I got the second M6, and that's been a few years now.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), June 06, 2001.

Hmmm. Cost no object (M4s are about twice as expensive as M3s, as there were only 58,000 M4s made as opposed to 220,000+ M3s.), the M4 has faster loading and rewinding, and 4 frames (35, 50, 90, 135) as opposed to the M3's 3 frames (50, 90, 135). Early M3s had less eye relief than the M4, a consideration for all of us eyeglass wearers.

What the M3 has that makes it my favorite M is it's 0.92x finder, which allows you to keep both eyes open when shooting, and it's rangefinder is just that more accurate.

They are both superbly built machines, and with proper care will outlast our generation.

-- Tom Bryant (boffin@gis.net), June 07, 2001.

I vote the same way Tom did and because of the same main reason: viewfinder. I haven't tried a M4 but I have owned and used not less than 10 different cameras and the M3's viewfinder is really something else. Not only that its magnification makes things look "natural" but the way it is installed in the camera allows you to keep both eyes open (provided you use your right eye to aim through it)which is a great help in much more situations than one can easily summarize (streets, action, portraiture,. . . you name it). It all comes to composition and opportunity which are main issues at making pictures,right? Just this morning I took my R4 to the street with me after a couple of months using only the M3s and it was a painful experience: I felt like putting a brick in front of my face instead of a photo instument. I'm taking it back home now until I have time allowable to get used to it again.

-- Iván Barrientos (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), June 12, 2001.

Ivan, I recomend you start using your R4, and stop using the M3 for a wile, otherwise you better forget how you used to like that R4, rangefinder can be a positive adictive experience, on the other hand there is no finder like the M finder, and since I never use any lens longer than 90mm,I now only use my SLR´s to copy work or macro photography; or when I need to lend a camera.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), June 12, 2001.

I have a M3 purchased new in 1967.I prefer the larger image and longer rangefinder base.Also my 135mm lens still works well 'cause the larger viewfinder.I am now using my new M6.Quiter,smoother and wow ! the built in meter which nearly always agrees with my own guess. Go for M3 if lots cheaper.My shutter needed replacement.Quite afew rolls thru it.Not burned !The drum and roller were worn out. Guess about 4~5000 rolls thru it all over the world.The viewfinder the Big difference.Try them out.I prefer the 50mm lens to anything else.

-- jason gold (jason1155234@webtv.net), June 14, 2001.

Max:

I don't believe anyone asked whether you wish to shoot with the 35mm focal length. If so, get the M4. Do you wear eyeglasses? The M4 will make it easier to see the 50mm frame.

Then Again, do you favor a telephoto lens? The M3 has the advantage here, especially with the 135mm, or the 90mm f/2.

The M4 has rapid loading, M3 not. Important?

Is back paint important? If not important by itself, does it incline you to the M4 in view of M4's other strengths?

Regards,

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), June 14, 2001.