local incident- gov't routed by homeshoolced kids!

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Children hold police at bay in Idaho

SANDPOINT, Idaho (AP) - Six children, believed to be armed, refused to leave their rural home and instead released a pack of dogs on sheriff's deputies who had arrested their mother, authorities said.

Deputies retreated from the house after a two-hour standoff Tuesday and planned to peacefully wait out the children, Sheriff Phil Jarvis said Wednesday.

"I told them, 'We're just going to defuse it, we're leaving,"' Jarvis said. "I'm not going to get into a Randy Weaver thing."

In 1992, at nearby Ruby Ridge, the wife and son of white separatist Randy Weaver were killed during a standoff with federal agents.

Officers on Wednesday were concerned about a boy who has taken a leadership role.

"It's not worth a confrontation with a 15-year-old who believes he is protecting his family," Jarvis said. "We are trying to talk him down."

The children, ages 8 to 16, would not respond to calls from social workers or law enforcement officers. A 19-year-old sister who left home has been assisting authorities.

"We know there are six children in there and guns in the house. The kids are trained to use the guns," Jarvis said.

More than 20 dogs have been running free at the scene, he said.

"They hunt. They pack like wild animals," he said. "They took down a moose a little while ago."

The home lacks power, water and heat. The children have essentially been caring for themselves for the past year, Jarvis said.

The incident was triggered by Tuesday's arrest of the children's mother, Joann McGuckin, on a warrant charging felony injury to a child.

Authorities believe McGuckin, 46, is mentally ill. Her husband died more than a week ago, Jarvis said.

Deputies returned to the home to get the children and put them in the state custody, but one of the boys ran to the house and yelled, "'Get the guns,"' the sheriff said. "They let all the dogs out of the basement."

The home is located about a mile from the community of Garfield Bay, down a dirt road just past a county dump.

Garfield Bay resident Lloyd Wyatt, 84, said the children were sometimes seen around town dressed in ragged clothing. He said he wasn't surprised they were holed up in the house.

"We are a breed of people who say, 'This is our home and we are entitled to protect it,"' Wyatt said.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2001

Answers

Isn't it funny that there have been several versions of this out... Each one making the Mother look more and more guilty. First it was 5 - 7 dogs. Now they claim there are 27. At first there was no power, running water or electric. Now it comes out that there was electric running up until at least a few days ago, that yes, the well pump was broken, but that another was purchased and didn't function properly within the past few weeks. Gee... but they didn't have the money to have it professionally installed at the time. Go figure.

They said that this family has been completely cut off from 'the world' for many years. Yet, all of the children knew the Pastor, and displayed a great fondness. It was NOT that pastor who was interviewed for the news. How could even the youngest (8) have known him well enough to hug and kiss him if they were so completely cut off for so many years? They say now that all the trouble started when one of the dogs severely injured one of the neighbors... First it was simply child abuse. Then it was child neglect. Now its a dog bite. Hmmmm....Everyone reports that the kids are armed. According to the news, there is no evidence of this... Sure, the eldest yelled 'get the guns' and I am sure there would be one - if for no other reason than for hunting - but not even a warning shot has been fired.

Now they are also saying that these kids never bathe "only in summer when the lake is warm enough", that they only wash their clothes once in a great while "in the frozen lake".

I don't have any answers, but it sure seems from the outside like this is yet another case of nosy neighbors more than anything else. When are people going to learn to keep their noses in their own damned business and get their own lives??? Right or wrong - these kids sure seem to want to go back to the way they were, have their mother returned, and go on. That certainly doesn't sound as if THEY feel they have been abused.

The thing that bothers me the most is that when the sheriff was asked if it was his case or the FBI, he stated that it was his, and that the FBI was not involved YET.

I'm in BIG trouble in this 'most free' of our United States. While I have all these things, I live without turning on lights most of the time (though the computer, radio or TV is on quite a bit), I wash my clothes in the kitchen sink because I don't want to work the hours required to buy a washing machine (would rather purchase food and have time for my family), and my husband and I together don't make $18,00 per year.

They lied to the Mother to get her to come out, and then arrested her. The neighbor turned in the 15 year old son who had gone to her for help. They are doing EXACTLY what this Mother feared!!! Its no wonder the kids are holed up in that house - after all... They were told this very thing would happen, and now it has.

I can't condone not feeding a family properly, but I think this whole thing is morbid and rediculous.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001


Boy i better watch out! my kids look like mud monsters at the end of the day,i hand wash the cloths in a small pool and use a wringer washer sometimes.We go outside and pick our dinner and yes we have a gun,wonder how many chickens make you mentally ill?

I avoid most of the people in this area because I think they are nuts,my kids do not go to school or hang out at the local mall {hmm wonder if that is abuse}. Boy the way the news is talking these folks had a pretty good home life ,they {the media}is just wording it all wronge.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001


I don't see how we can possibly know what is the full, true story there. Perhaps there is collusion against a family that is a bit different. Perhaps there is genuine risk to the children. One story reports that the father, though diagnosed with MS, died of malnutrition and dehydration, according to a coroner's report.

With what little we can "know" from reports, any speculation is just that, speculation. I see over on CS that many people are reporting different "facts" -- pretty hard to say who has the right story and who does not.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001


It really comes down to, "What do we do about these minor children that are alone at home now?". Regardless of the Mother's guilt, or not, IF something happens to these children, AND we do NOTHING, who is to blame? We are, that's who!!!

Where is the extended family that normally would have stepped in to take care of these children? If they are not willing to care for these children, then the State has the RIGHT and the RESPONSIBILITY to care for these kids!!! The State will get blamed IF something bad befalls these kids, so why is everyone making such a big deal about what's happening?

If the family REALLY cared about the kids, they would be there to take care of them, baring that, someone has to, who should it be?

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001


There are plenty of people who would love to go in there and take the kids home until things are resolved. But no- the gov't had blocked the road and cordoned off the property. They want to do a psychological evaluation of the kids( right after their dad died and mom got arrested!) and seperate them into foster homes. To ensure that mom didn't bail out to put the kids in a safer place, they raised the bail from $10,00 to $100,000.

About the abuse- it doesn't have to do with these children, one of the dogs bit a neighbor's child. That happens all the time around here, this is the FIRST time I've ever heard of it being handled in this way. About the dad, the coroner is now denying reports that the dad died of malnutrition and dehydration, and says that such reports are false. As for the real issue, there are justifiable suspiscions that this is really about a land grab- about 40 acres of prime lake front property. In case you are wondering, yes, our county officials are crooked and corrupt, and justice can be hard to come by around here since the local gov't is rotten all the way through. This case has attracted attention because of the way the kids reacted.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001



Is this going to be another case of Ruby Ridge??? hmmmm sounds similar for certain...

interesting on Nightline last night... they talked about militias... and how they are none existent... but talked of small groups or families... does this poor family qualify??? possiblitiy....

so the deal with the children being dirty and ragged... heck... that's the reason I have the kids dress in poorer looking clothes... cuz they are going to get dirty... I don't have the $$ to buy the fancy clothes for my kids to get dirty... so what's the big deal???

the mother being mentally ill???? give me a break... just one week after the husband died???? hey... my hubby died with all 7 children at home... and he was the breadwinner.... I felt "crazy" myself ... (oh, Joy... don't tell the truth... tee hee)...

I mean the questions with no answers... how am I going to raise these kids alone... without any family members around, the closet one beings 550 miles away...

where is the money going to come from??? I didn't know anything about Social Security beings avaiable... heck, I wasn't to go through this at 38 years of age... try about 68 years or more... I didn't know how I was going to make house payments??? car payments??? heck, my hubby didn't believe in any more insurance than necessary... thus we had NO life insurance to help even pay for his funeral... and tho we cut many corners for his funeral... it still costed over $5,000.00!!!!

where was the money for essentials...I have always canned and preserved food from the hugh garden that I had... but what about all the other things the family needed???

boy... I felt crazy until I found out what I could live on and be responsible for my family...

then to make matters worst... less than 6 weeks after hubby died... my mother in Indiana... I live in Wisconsin.... hits a big deliver truck... spends 2 months in intensive care and another month in a regular room.... heck, I just lost my hubby... and now my mother??? she's alive and well today...

so big me a break... this mother and family deserves community help... help in love and providing for her family temporarily... not the condemnation... seems a neiggbhor has an axe to grind...

this mother and family deserves our loving thoughts and light...

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001


Yarrow, I don't know how much I believe press reports anymore, but the newspaper today had an article about this. It said that the father had died of malnutrition and dehydration. The mother was said to have been spending most of the meager amount of money that she was getting on alcohol. If true, it doesn't sound like they were living a very healthy lifestyle.

There is still that old argument about when does someone interfere? If the two adults were just abusing themselves? Or because they were raising children? btw, I also read or heard that they have 24 dogs.

Interesting family. I hope this has a happy ending. Or at least not a tragic one.

-- Anonymous, June 02, 2001


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