about to take the plunge

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Hi all, I’m sorry if this seems like a rehash of what’s been gone over at length: advice for someone about to invest in a M system. But the facts that you can’t just drop into Ritz to handle one of these gems and that they’re obscenely expensive makes it oh so easy to cogitate on this, too long. Also, it'd be nice if we could search the archives a little more easily.

So the IRS has paid me my refund, and, altho' I plan to rent an M6 and lenses in the near future, I'm planning to take the plunge. A family trip to Asia is in the works. As such, it'll be landscape, people, scenes of people; and personal- more people and documentation.

Last time abroad (the Galapagos- lots of animals, great landscape), I was happy with a Domke F6 bag, my SLR, an 70-210 zoom, a 20mm, 50mm as a backup, and my Hexar (classic) as my all around and standard wide angle. Prior to that, in an earlier trip to China, I had 2 SLR bodies, the zoom, a 28 (which I was most accustomed to), flash, tripod, a point and shoot. It all fit in the same bag, but felt like a burden, walking about with family.

My honeymoon with my Hexar is still going strong. Just last week a roll came back that really impressed me and others. When this happens, not rarely anymore, I do say, "It was the camera that made the difference," since compared to my SLRs, these images are quite amazing.

That said, I'd like to get used

-an M6 TTL -1 or 2 lenses:

a. 28 (2.8), 90 (2.8) b. 50 (2.0), 90 c. 35 (2.0), 90 d. 50 only e. 28 only f. 90 only

for travel, documentary, landscape, some portraiture.

My ideal: discreet, less is more, light weight, sock-knocking off optics, simple. I wear contacts and sometimes glasses. Oh, and Uncle Sam didn't owe me back THAT much money... I’d be happy with just one lens, but it seems it’d be nice to have a 2nd lens since this is an interchangeable system.

In my mind, the perfect set up *seems* to be the 28/50/90 combo. The adulation I read here for the 35 still puzzles me. I mean, I love what my Hexar does, but I don’t have a choice on FL there. The last 2 years I’ve been shooting nothing by my Hexar while all my other gear gets dust. A recent return to my standard 28mm SLR set-up let me finding it too wide. But...

My questions:

1. Any advice on how best to figure this out? I plan to rent- but only for a weekend or so... Anyone make a similar decision, or could point me to threads? I've been perusing them a bit.

2. I used to see the world in 28mm, through my SLR. My only experience with 35mm is with the Hexar. With this camera as a backup, would it still make sense to get the 35mm Summicron?

3. Don Chatterton's prices have increased, it seems. Any thoughts on good used retailiers, service, warranties, buying on eBay?

As usual, TIA--

-- Tse-Sung Wu (tsesung@yahoo.com), May 28, 2001

Answers

TIA: I would opt for the 28,90 for a first choice and follow with the 50 later if you miss it. I have the .72 with a 28 and the viewfinder is a problem. You might consider the .58 if you use primarily the 28 and/or 50. I traveled Europe years ago with a 24 and and 85 on a Nikon and did well. I am taking a 28 f:2.8, 50 f:2.0 and a 90 f:2.0 and two bodies on a planned trip this fall. Last time I took 35, 50, 90 and 135. The 35 wasn't wide enough and the 135 was too long and heavy. If you like low light, go faster. I haven't used the Tri- elmar but it would be an option if speed isn't an issue.

Mark J.

-- Mark A. Johnson (logic@gci.net), May 28, 2001.


You may have trouble finding a place that will rent Leica equipment; such a place may exist but I haven't found one yet. I suggest that you may want to buy a Canonet QL17 to see if rangefinder photography is for you. I got one and took some great pictures with it. This made my decision to get an M6 much easier. I don't think that you can compare the Hexar AF to a true rangefinder; I think of it as more of a super point and shoot. You can get a very nice fully functional Canonet GIII QL17 for less than $100.00 on Eb*y. I bought my M6 used along with a 35mm pre-asph summilux at www.cameratradersltd. They are great and I'm very happy with the purchase. The extra stop makes a big difference. I have since added a 90mm Tele-elmarit and a Hexar RF with 50mm Hexanon. I have since put away my SLRs and my Canonets (I ended getting 7 of them including a black one) and use my Leica/Hexar rangefinders exclusively. I also want something wider than 35mm. I am too cheap to spend up to $2000 on a Leica 24mm and (forgive me for saying) I think the Voigtlander lenses are junk. As a temporary compromise, I got an adapter (Cameraquest) to use my Nikkor 24mm f2.0 AIS on my Leica. No rangefinder coupling but anything beyond 5 feet is at infinity for this lens. Good luck on your decision.

-- Suetonius (suetonius@netzero.net), May 28, 2001.

You may have trouble finding a place that will rent Leica equipment; such a place may exist but I haven't found one yet. I suggest that you may want to buy a Canonet QL17 to see if rangefinder photography is for you.

Thanks for your thoughts. Here in N. California, Keeble and Suchat in Palo Alto rents.

I have indeed owned and shot with a Konica Auto S2, a similar 1970s-era rangefinder- perhaps the Hexar's direct ancestor. Your point is well taken, that the Hexar Classic handles, ahem, the focus, as well as exposure.

Up to now, I have used my venerable, fully manual Pentax K1000, so manual exp. determination is something I grew up with.

For me, I imagine the challenge will be getting used to the film loading, metering pattern, and who knows what else...

-- Tse-Sung Wu (tsesung@yahoo.com), May 28, 2001.


Tse,

I would go with the 35 cron/ 90 elmarit combination if I were you. You'll probably find yourself using the 35 more often than not (as it really IS the standard lens for an M outfit). Unless you're going to get into a .58 body then the 28 framelines on the .72 might take awhile to get intuitive with. 35 is not that much of a strain. The 90 elmarit is plenty light (not that much heavier than a 50 cron) and plenty fast enough for most applications with 100-200 film. Also, another major plus is that both lenses can be outfitted with the superb Universal polarizer as they are 39 mm thread (if memory serves me correct). I'm using a 24-35-75 combination and except for the weight of the 75 it works quite well for me.

Good luck in Leicaland!

-- John Chan (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), May 28, 2001.


Having a f2 lens is nice, one of the advantages of Leica. I recommend either the 35/2 or (although I do not own one) the 28/2. Your need for wide angle coverage may vary. A 90mm lens is nice for portraiture; here again, fast lenses are also an advantage. I use a 24/2.8 ASPH, 35/1.4 ASPH, 50/2 and 90/2 APO ASPH, but 90% of the time I stick with the 35mm lens. The 35/2 ASPH is a wonderful lens, I sold mine only because I couldn't justify having two lenses of the same focal length and I was able to buy the 35/1.4 ASPH at an especially good price.

-- Chris Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), May 28, 2001.


My favorite outfit: Older M6 (so called 'classic') with a 35/2 Asph and a 90/2.8, Domke F6. I also have a 50/2 but don't use it very often. I find that I use the 35/2 asph (amazingly sharp lens) almost all of the time. I would definately look at Ebay although only at those sellers who have an excellent feedback history. I was recently ripped off more than $100 on an item on Ebay (it never arrived) from a dealer with a history of negative feedback. I took the chance and paid the consequence of doing so. You could pick up an excellent used M6 'classic' for about $1,250 and a slightly used 35/2 Asph for about $1,000 on Ebay. Alternatively you could buy your lenses new from Delta International, whom seem to have a lot of happy customers and then purchase an excellent condition used M6 from a dealer like Don Chatterton.

-- Shay Gomez (sgomez@ezysurf.com), May 28, 2001.

For travel I live on 2 M6 TTLs - a .58 with 21/2.8 & 35/1.4, and a .85 with 75/1.4 and 135/3.4. Most people would consider this too cumbersome for a traveling M outfit though. I enjoy the 35 the most, but only because I know I also have the 21 with the wider perspective.

With the limitations you describe, I would take a 28 and 90, plus the 50 if I felt uncomfortable about the gap in between. I don't need glasses, so a 28 on a .72 body doesn't bother me. Otherwise it might be a problem. Putting the 28 on a .58 body solves the problem, but then you have to take a closer look at the 90 on the same body - possibly another problem.

That's why I settled on 2 bodies - .58 and .85 - plus my array of 4 lenses. But I would not hesitate to take a .72 with the 28 & 90 if I wanted to cut back on the outfit.

-- Ken Shipman (kennyshipman@aol.com), May 28, 2001.


For travel with family, where 75-80% of your shooting will probably be in daylight hours, there is no Leica lens that can beat the Tri- Elmar, and no more convenient body to mount it on than a Hexar RF. Add to that a 15 Cosina/Voiglander, 50 Summicron, and a 135 Tele- Elmar (all are extremely economical)and you have a very flexible outfit. I no longer travel with a 50/2, but I own the 35/1.4ASPH which is my night/low-light lens. On a once-in-a-lifetime trip I also bring the 21ASPH and 90/2.8. All of it together can be fit into a remarkably small bag using the lens coupling caps, and the weight is not oppressive because you can keep it closer to your body's center of gravity than a much bulkier SLR outfit even if the actual weight is not much more.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), May 28, 2001.

Jay:

If you keep this up I'm going to have to buy a Tri-Elmar/Hexar combo! :)))

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), May 29, 2001.


Many thanks to all who responded. I'm really grateful for all the knowledge and experience everyone is happy to share here.

I almost got an M body for a song on eBay, but got sniped at the last moment! Argh.

Tse-Sung

-- Tse-Sung Wu (tsesung@yahoo.com), May 29, 2001.



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