I am really not sure whom to talk with on this. I have been trying to become Catholic for more than a year and a half. I have gone through RCIA and completed all of the paper work requested of me to request an annulment from the church. My mother was Catholic but I did not join the church. As I have gotten older I realized I have really made a mistake by not staying with the Catholic Church, so I came back and was told I need to go through RCIA and do the paper work for an annulment since I was married once before. All of this I did. I feel like a lost child trying to return home and not being accepted back because I have divorced and re-married. Is this the norm for the church and will I never be able to receive communion with the Church? I feel I have been rejected and I am not sure what to do. I have tried to talk with one of the priest and he did not act like he really wanted to discuss this. I have not given up on the church. I know it is where I belong and my catholic friends tell me to keep pushing the issue, but I do not wish to offend anyone with the church. What should I do? The judge has told me it is out of his hands and the advocates tell me they are waiting on the judge. It is like a catch 22. I was told I could request to receive communion, but I not sure that would be right before the church or God.

-- Sam S. (Mickey) Lee (Mickey.lee@cplc.com), May 21, 2001

Answers

Response to Receiving Comunion and divorce

Well, now, wait a minute, Sam. You said you never joined the church. So, if you were never Catholic, then your marriage is not recognized in the eyes of the church and there's no need for an official annulment in the church. And your not feeling that it would be right to receive communion means you are a very good person that respects the Eucharist very much. I tell you all of this, Sam, because I have been through it and told the same. I, too, was divorced but because I was never married in the Catholic church, I did not have to receive an anullment in order to remarry. I subsequently was able to remarry in our church with no problem. If you feel you can not speak to your priest or don't feel comfortable in this particular church, I would suggest to you that you find a different one. Sometimes, these things happen, Sam and finding the place that's right for you is well worth the search. I'm glad you haven't let all of this discourage you away from the faith, Sam. Good luck and God Bless.

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), May 21, 2001.

Response to Receiving Comunion and divorce

Jmj

This is probably the hardest message I have ever had to write here.
Jackiea, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but you are mistaken, and what you wrote really shakes me up. I hope that I have misunderstood you.
You told Sam, "So, if you were never Catholic, then your marriage is not recognized in the eyes of the church and there's no need for an official annulment in the church."
And you said of yourself, "I, too, was divorced but because I was never married in the Catholic church, I did not have to receive an anullment in order to remarry. I subsequently was able to remarry in our church with no problem."

I hate to alarm you, Jackiea, but I have to recommend that you speak to your pastor as soon as possible about your own case -- or better yet, speak to a judge at the marriage tribunal in your diocese. [You should be able to find a number at the chancery (bishop's office) to call in the phone book.]

All marriages, whether between Catholics, non-Catholics, mixed Christian denominations, or non-Christians are presumed to be valid. If a marriage is "ended" (secularly speaking) by divorce, neither of the "ex-spouses" can be married in a Catholic ceremony until the first "marriage" has been evaluated by a marriage tribunal, to see whether or not a Decree of Nullity can be granted. Only after it has been granted can a couple be married in a Catholic ceremony.

So Sam has done what is required, but it seems as though his case is being delayed. He should call or write to his bishop, asking for action. [It could be that Sam has misunderstood what has happened. Perhaps he was already notified that his petition has been denied and that the Decree of Nullity cannot be granted, meaning that the tribunal found his first marriage to be genuine, valid, and unbreakable.]

As I said, I could have misundersood your situation, Jackiea. But it also could be true that your parish priest, at the time of your wedding in a Catholic church, made a serious mistake. Perhaps he did not know that the tribunal was required to act in your situation before he could witness your marriage. It should not take long for you to get to the bottom of the matter. I would urge you to take a look at this official diocesan write-up on a case that may be similar to yours -- and you can read more by clicking on the links at the right side.

I am already praying that both your case and Sam's will be resolved quickly and smoothly.
God bless you.
John


-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), May 21, 2001.

Response to Receiving Comunion and divorce

All marriages do not have to be evaluated by a Marriage Tribunal. If neither the husband to be or the wife to be have been previously married "in the Catholic Church", some annullments can be handled by the parish priest. But this may vary somewhat in procedure from Diocese to Diocese.

Sam, it sounds like there is some obstacle or someone is dragging their feet.

Please do not give up on the Church. If you have to, go to another parish or as suggested go to the Bishop.

Remember the Church is ran by humans and sometimes there are human problems to overcome.

God Bless.

-- john placette (johnplacette@yahoo.com), May 22, 2001.

Response to Receiving Comunion and divorce

Let me make a correction on my last post. In our Diocese. Houston- Galveston in Texas, the Bishop has delegated some annullment duties to the parish priests -- The very simple ones ie. where there has not been a Catholic wedding etc. There is still a review (even if a rubber stamp, by the Tribunal).

I sincerely apologize for the confusion.

I learned something.

God Bless

-- john placette (johnplacette@yahoo.com), May 22, 2001.

Response to Receiving Comunion and divorce

Jmj

Thanks for the clarification, John. However, I think that you may still have a mistaken impression about one thing.

You stated: "In our Diocese, Houston- Galveston in Texas, the Bishop has delegated some annullment duties to the parish priests -- The very simple ones i.e. where there has not been a Catholic wedding etc. There is still a review (even if a rubber stamp, by the Tribunal)."

John, I believe that, if you would be willing to look into it, you would find that what you have described refers to cases in which, while there was not "a Catholic wedding," nevertheless one of the putative spouses was a Catholic. That Catholic, by failing to get the bishop's permission to marry outside of the normal "canonical form," automatically failed to enter into a valid marriage. Yes, most of the work in such a case is handled by the parish priest, and the tribunal dispenses with it quickly (usually in less than six months, I believe).

But the situations described by Sam and Jackiea, above, appear to me NOT to involve EITHER of the spouses being Catholic. In those cases, there was no question of either spouse getting a Catholic bishop's permission. Therefore, the marriages are presumed to be valid until proved otherwise. In such cases, my understanding is that a full tribunal consideration must be carried out -- just as if the two spouses had been Catholic and "married" in a Catholic wedding. I think that you will find this to be true if you study the various pieces of information at the diocesan link I provided above. [But if you can provide documentary (or official Internet) proof to the contrary, I will be pleased to withdraw what I said earlier and to apologize for any distress I may have unjustifiably caused.]

God bless you.
John

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), May 22, 2001.

Response to Receiving Comunion and divorce

John, I can only comment with any authority about my own situation. I grew up Catholic, but for various reasons was away from the Church for a number of years. My first wife and I were married by a Methodist minister. She was not Catholic. We later divorced. My current wife and I married in a non-denominiational ceremony. After several years, I decided that I needed to be back home in the Catholic Church. I talked at length with my parish priest, who helped me through the process.

Since my first wife was not Catholic and we were not married in the Church, the annulment was handled by the parish priest. It helped that all my records ie. baptism, confirmation, secular marriage license, divorce decree etc. were readily available.

My wife and I were then able to married in the Church. Within weeks.

I want to stress that I had reached a level of committment where I would have walked through fire to be back home. I believe this is very important when going through any process.

I hope this explains better what I went through with hope that it aids someone else.

God Bless.

-- john placette (johnplacette@yahoo.com), May 23, 2001.

Response to Receiving Comunion and divorce

Jmj

John, thanks very much for the details. God bless you for having the courage to do what you did.

Yes, your situation is the kind I spoke about -- that of a Catholic (even not actively practicing) who attempts marriage outside the Church, without the bishop's permission. These "lack of (canonical) form" situations are mainly handled by the parish priest, but I think that, as you said earlier, they must get a final OK from the tribunal and/or the bishop.

Now if, while you were not practicing your faith (and before getting married), you had formally declared that you had joined another religion (or a non-Catholic Christian denomination), then you would have had to go through the full Decree of Nullity process, because the Catholic Church would have presumed that your non-Catholic marriage was a valid, sacramental one, until proved otherwise.

We know, from the messages above, that Sam and Jackiea were not Catholics before their first weddings (which did not take place in Catholic churches). What we do not know with certainty is the religion of their spouses. If Jackiea's first husband was a Catholic who did what you did (married outside the Church, without permission), then their union was automatically invalid ("lack of form") and could have resulted in the kind of extremely fast Decree of Nullity that you received. Perhaps that happened without her even being aware of it (the parish priest beginning work as soon as she and her present husband met him to discuss their coming marriage). I hope so.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), May 23, 2001.

Response to Receiving Comunion and divorce

Thanks John John (Learning something new everyday)Placette

-- john placette (johnplacette@yahoo.com), May 23, 2001.

Response to Receiving Comunion and divorce

I think that Sam's question has gotten lost in all the answers! Sam I'm confused as to if you were Baptized in the Catholic Church or not?

"My mother was Catholic but I did not join the church. As I have gotten older I realized I have really made a mistake by not staying with the Catholic Church..."

If you were Baptized Catholic them you joined the Catholic Church at your Baptism. If not were you ever Baptized and where?

Were you raised in the Catholic Faith to some extent?

-- Br. Rich SFO (repsfo@prodigy.net), May 23, 2001.