Devil-Lution again: Man decended from bacteria? (but women have always known that right?)

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http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/18/science/18GENO.html?pagewanted=print
May 18, 2001

Link Between Human Genes and Bacteria Is Hotly Debated

By NICHOLAS WADE

In a fresh skirmish in the genome wars, a finding presented as a major discovery by the consortium of academic centers that decoded the human genome has come under attack from the camp of the consortium's rival, Celera Genomics.

The finding, one of the most surprising in the consortium's report on the human genome this February, was that 223 of the 30,000 human genes appear to have been acquired directly from bacteria. The implication was that the vertebrate and human genomes might have been shaped not just by inheritance but by weird accidents like bacterial infection of the egg or sperm cells.

The consortium cited the finding as fourth in a list of 11 major discoveries about the human genome and gave it considerable emphasis in its press briefing. Celera, in its genome analysis, made no mention of bacterial genes in the human genome.

An article published on the Web this week by the journal Science gives little credence to the consortium's idea.

"When I saw this claim in the consortium's paper I was surprised," said Dr. Steven L. Salzberg, the lead author of the critique. "It's not been documented previously that bacterial genes got into the human genome. When I looked at their method, I was immediately struck by the fact it was likely to be an error, because the method was simply wrong."

Dr. Salzberg is senior director of bioinformatics at the Institute for Genomic Research, which was founded by Dr. J. Craig Venter, now president of Celera in Rockville, Md. Dr. Salzberg said that he had not discussed his critique with Dr. Venter and that his article was a spontaneous effort to set the record straight. Dr. Salzberg's institute issued a news release today drawing attention to his critique.

The lead author of the consortium's genome article, Dr. Eric Lander of the Whitehead Institute in Cambridge, Mass., recently criticized Dr. Venter's decoding of the human genome, saying that Celera's method was a "flop" and would not have worked without reliance on the consortium's method, a contention Dr. Venter denied.

Dr. Lander said that his conclusions about bacterial gene transfer had been tentative and that Dr. Salzberg's criticisms were "thoughtful" but he declined to discuss them further.

Dr. Eugene Koonin of the National Center for Biotechnology Information, who wrote the section of the consortium's article on bacterial genes with Dr. Lander, said he could not discuss Dr. Salzberg's paper without Dr. Lander's assent. Later Dr. Koonin said he had arrived at an agreement with Dr. Lander that "the only thing I am going to say is that I fully support what he said."

The issue stems from the recent finding, made possible by the decoding of several bacterial genomes, that many genes in different species of bacteria are so similar that they appear to have been exchanged directly, perhaps in some act of engulfment or infection. This source of genes is called horizontal or lateral transfer to distinguish it from vertical descent, or inheritance from a common ancestor, which is the usual reason for different species to possess similar genes.

Humans have about a thousand genes similar to those of bacteria, presumably because the genes are so vital that their DNA structure has remained much the same over millions of years of descent from a common ancestor. But the consortium asserted that some of these genes were likely to have been acquired by lateral transfer. The reason was that the consortium could find no counterpart genes in the genomes of several species distantly related to humans, like the roundworm and the fruit fly. The consortium considered but rejected as less likely the possibility that these species, too, had inherited the genes and all lost them over the course of evolution.

Dr. Salzberg said that the consortium scientists had not tried hard enough to find counterpart genes in distant species and that he quickly turned up counterparts to a couple dozen of the supposed bacterial transfer genes in jellyfish. That means that humans and jellyfish probably acquired the genes the more common way, through inheritance, the critique says.

Indeed, Dr. Salzberg said, there were only 41 of the 223 genes on the list that he could not find in any other species. Even those 41 will dwindle to zero, he predicted, as more genomes are sequenced.

Dr. W. Ford Doolittle, an expert on bacterial evolution at Dalhousie University in Nova Scotia, said the lateral transfer of bacterial genes into the human genome was possible but the consortium's method of trying to prove it was "awfully incautious."

In a parallel battle, the journal Nature this week contains an article criticizing Celera's version of the fruit-fly genome, which appeared in Science last year. The article, by Dr. Samuel Karlin and colleagues at Stanford University, says there are many small discrepancies between the protein sequences that would be expected from Celera's fruit-fly genome and those of actual fruit-fly proteins recorded in SwissProt, a database of protein sequences.




-- Anonymous, May 18, 2001

Answers

LOL...Why hello there CPR! And how are you doing? I had wondered if you where still skulking around the net. And then, by chance, I pop in here and there you are! As well as Mistress Cherri, I see. Guess I'll have to browse a bit and see just who all is here.

"As for me...I shall finish the Game"! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2001


In your case, Shakey Brain, we have living proof that man is descended from bacteria.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2001

LOL @ CPR...

You still have your people winning sence of humor..Nice to know that some things never change. How some ever, it would do you some good to get out and breath a little fresh air. It'd be good for your inflated ego...

"As for me...I shall finish the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2001


SHAKEY BRAIN : you and Gary North NEVER finish anything you ever start. You simply hope, even pray everyone forgets your Loonie Tune mumblings as you move onto Virgin Territory. Good luck but take it where it belongs: with the Hillbillies in N. Arkansas and don't forget to be careful playing with matches around the gas well heads.

-- Anonymous, May 25, 2001

LOL @ CPR;

Again you are wrong sir...I am still watching for the War to happen. But the embedded systems where there and a significant portion of them are still there. Forunately for us all, the things didn't SNAFU all with in a few weeks of each other. But there where, and still are crashes! It just depends on how many of ther systems where lied to (setting the dates back etc) and what will happen, where they are taken off line (de-energized for maintance) then coming back on line, when they are repowered. They re-set to the true date from their internal RTC...

I do find you rather remarkable, my friend. You share the same conserveative views that I do; and still you where then and still are an opinionative fool at times. While at other times, I fond myself admiring you stances.

Untill then; please do get out into the sun light. It'll do you some good. Too bad I didn't know where to find you, after I got out of the hospital in Dallas some days back..I'd of liked to have bought you a cup of coffee "As for me...I shall finish the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Anonymous, May 26, 2001



The only hospital in Texas you should be in is in Terrill. For the rest of your un natural days.

-- Anonymous, May 26, 2001

Awwwwww Doomsie;

The only unnatural thing is your posts...One would think that you might choose another, more credible (or is that incredible) handle. It only shows both your like of imagination. And your refusal to ponder an alternative name..Or is it that you usually go by another, more known name.

In either case, it is obivious that if one where to add your age & waist line & shoe size togeather. You still come up with only a double didget I.Q. LOL, too bad you are only using a small portion of your intelectual capability in your posts..

"As for me...I shall finish the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Anonymous, May 27, 2001


A "more credible handle"? You mean like "Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet)"? Come on...you can do better than that; can't you?

BTW, Charlie; not ALL men are descended from bacteria ;-)

-- Anonymous, May 27, 2001


Actually yes My Dear Patrica;

You see the handle I normally use (since the C.B. era) was taken by some one else, three years ago. When I tried to register on the original board. So after a minute or two, I chose Shakey...

Incidently; the old handle is used on other boards which has no one using it before I got there...The Handle I prefer? The Flying Dutchman! Or just The Dutchman...(I have treasure hunted many years in the South West LOL)....Unfortunately...I can no longer follow that hobby. (Or I would not be on this brand new wizz bang puter, pounding away at these keys.) I would instead be using it to access the libaray of congress for all the historical data they have on hand about the old west.

So you are in La\ost Wages? Huh! Nice place, I have had some excellent jobs there some ten years back. And always enjoyed the gala atmosphere.

Well dear lady, I do hope that I have answeared your question; at least in part

"As for me...I shall finish the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey /The Dutchman~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Anonymous, May 28, 2001


Shakey, a couple of things, first, how is your health? I was a little worried because I thought you said you had gotten cancer. Then I never saw you anywhere. I hope you are doing better.

The second thing,what will happen, where they are taken off line (de-energized for maintance) then coming back on line, when they are repowered. They re-set to the true date from their internal RTC... wouldn't work like that because the RTC is battery powered, and keeps going when the main power is removed, thus keeping track of cycles passing.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2001



Why waste your time with Shakey Brain, Cherri? Its clear that you don't know the first thing about RTCs and Shakey will be the first to educate you about what he is really talking about those "Secondary Clocks" of Beach Ball Brucie Beach, Shakey's fellow airhead.

It wasn't those "primary clocks" that you have been working with for 30 years that matter; its those secondary ones that use Anti- gravitons for power and can only be re-set by either Spock or Scottie. And as we all know, they will only act when order to do so by their superior officer who has taken a leave of absence to shill for priceline.conJob or some such venture.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2001


LOL @ Doomsie!

Awwww! Perhaps you are right, possibly even correct. But not about the troubles that went on. Oh yes...We'll have more embedded systems problems, to be sure. Luckily though; or unluckily, as the case may be. Those problems will only slow down the flow of fuel (in a system already maxed out to the fullest).

But at least there is always a silver lining for some one. The power generation plants will be Booming across the country. Just think! It has been estimated that a new power generation complex needs to go on line each week...For the next 20 years..Now if I can only recover from my illnes (physical)(heart) and a couple of other difficulties (again physical). I'll have more work than I have years left to me...

So Doomsie you take care, I shall not be passing through this thread again. I'll catch you on another one possibly. How ever I do hope that you will have progressed beyond the primary grade level that you are so obiviously at at theis present time (Or maby, if only your momma would just change your wittle diaper - that'd help some LOL)

"As for me...I shall finisht the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2001


My Dear Mistress Cherri;

Thank you for your concern. Yes I did encounter health problems (Just got out of a critical care unit 12 days ago). First I was hit with congestive heart failure (worked way too many hours on those little embeds). Then to cap it all off. My left leg suffered a deep vein blockage (a blood clot formed instantly from my inner thigh to my ankle _ Twice I suffered a pulmonary embulism, guess it was a good thing that I was next to the Ops room, at least that is what the Docs said later)..

Perhaps I am dry docked for the rest of my life. I sincerely hope not. I surely do love building those "steam machines" and the country needs the power, if we are to keep an economy. At this present time, I am weak in my legs (but that hellish pain is at least gone from me) I can hardly walk fifty feet at this time (the docs said that it would take some time for me to recover even a percentage of my former stamina)..How ever, I think, and believe whole heartedly that I will be back to my usual form...I have to believe that, simply because I refuse to believe that it is the end for me professionally..LOL

But in the mean time, I am getting used to this wizz bang puter I am using at this moment (the webby grew to be too inhibited in it's functions)..Again, thank you dear lady, for your kindness

"As for me...I shall finish the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2001


You are not EVEN IN THE GAME. You live in a world constructed on your fears and inability to deal with reality. By constructing such a world, you are able to reject anyone who dares argue with you. Debate with types such as you is impossible simply because you gather your facts like a fish net then screeding out any of the realities of life that might be "good" and assembling as many "bad news" droppings as possible.

But at least your type is "consistent". By predicting doom since you were old enough to talk, sooner or later enough forces would come into play that you would be able to say (once every 10 years or so): 'I told you so. Didn't I warn you?" ASSHOLE.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2001


Horray! Outstanding! Good job Doomzies! You told him like it is,,,Now, if you had just done it without getting personal and calling him an ahole if would have been twice as good! You were right to point out that people like him sit back and wait for the day they can say "I told you so" (which almost never comes) but most of us recognize there are those like him who see the dark side of everything. Why shouldn't he have a black cloud over his head? He's sick and been sick for a long time. (physically and mentally) Why don't you take that into consideration the next time you're tempted to call him names? (and others) Other wise, keep beaming your light with my blessings.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2001


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