I'm trying out a mail-order 90mm Tele-Elmarit (thin). It has a spot on the front surface of the front element that has me concerned. The spot appears to be almost a mirror surface (like a grease spot, but won't rub off) about 2 - 2.5mm in diameter. It's a little over 1/2 way out from the center to the edge. From the front it looks smooth and undifferentiated, but looking through the lens from the rear there is clearly a smaller, more ragged mark in the center of the "mirrored" area, like a small scratch or chip. I have not yet seen processed film to determine if this mark is having any effect on image quality.

Is this a sign of some horrible process that will spread and eventually make the lens unusable? Or is it just a localized boo-boo that won't go any further? Any idea what a TE with such a mark is worth? I'd be glad to give it a good home as a user, but only if it won't get worse and I can get the price down to reflect its true bargain condition.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 10, 2001

Answers

Andy,

It would be hard to say what exactly your problem is, but I was dissuaded from buying the TE based on corroboration of something I read on other sites about its potential for a strange etching on the rear element. You state that your mark is on the front element, so maybe it is not a big problem. But then again...

Go to this site, and scroll down to the middle and read Steve Gandy's review of the lens and his mentioning of the glass etching. The lens is mentioned several times, but the comments about the problems is in the middle... keep scrolling, you'll find it.

http://www.cameraquest.com/mlenses.htm

I was not getting along well with my Elmarit M based on the balance, and asked on several sites about the truth in this etching problem. Several responses indicated that indeed others, (not only Gandy), had problems. I am still using my Elmarit M.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), May 10, 2001.

You might be better off returning your T/E and trying the new Voigtlander 90 3.5 APO. Camerquest has this in stock for $375 & cost of screw mount to M mount adapter. Check their website for details.

The obvious downside is that it's a new lens without a proven track record and it's also a screw mount design. However, the Voigtlander lenses seem to be veryg well received and the weight of the new 90mm is about the same as a 50mm Summicron (250 gr).

I suffer from the same disappointment as Al already mentioned with the current 90 Elmarit, in that the balance suffers and so I just didn't enjoy using the lens very much. I've always liked the size and weight of the T/E, but stayed away from it because of the quality issues that Al also mentioned.

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@worldnet.att.netkpp), May 11, 2001.

I forgot to mention that I'm holding off buying a Voigtlander tele based on the hopes that they'll introduce a true M mount design relatively soon, now that they've announced their new M mount RF body, the Voigtlander Bessa T. Hopefully, my patience will pay off with some true M mount lenses forthcoming...

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@worldnet.att.net), May 11, 2001.

Thanks for the notes so far - I've been reading cameraquest for years, so knew about the potential for problems. This TE has clean rear elements, and I can't imagine how lubricant from inside could affect the outside of a front element (but maybe it got sloppy service sometime and a drop fell on the glass - or it may be something essentially benign.) The TE IS beautifully light - maybe it's just cursed in compensation.

I'm keeping the voightlander in mind, also the regular Elmarit. I have the small 90 summicron - it's heavy, but has a wonderful color (as does my 21 2.8) - about an 81A yellower than my 35 'cron. I really need the warmer lenses shooting Velvia up here at 5,000 feet - more UV light - they're giving me the best color slides I've had since I moved to Denver.

My first glance at slides shot with the TE is that the color is more like the 35 (and presumably other leica glass, since people always refer to it as 'colder') The v'lander 15 and 25 are also a little cold, so I wouldn't be surprised if their 90 is also.

Any ideas as to whether the 90 Elmarit runs to blue or yellow? If none of the small 90's can match my Summicron's rembrandt glow, I may have to stick with it, brick though it is.

(no sharpness/bokeh/tonality comparison betwen the TE and 'cron yet...if I see anything interesting I'll make a separate post)

Thanks again

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 11, 2001.

I must either be the luckiest guy in the world or else the "rear element etching" problem with the T-E is way overblown. I've owned several and looked at hundreds (with a penlight and magnifying loupes, that's how I examine a lens before purchase) and never saw evidence of the so-called epidemic. A spot such as you indicate could be either from: a)a manufacturing flaw; b) a drop of some liquid having attacked the coating, or c)a spot of coating was chipped off as a result of a small gritspeck hitting the glass at high velocity (I'll bet on a or b). Another point scored against the contention that Leica front coatings are so hard that UV filters are superfluous. The likelihood of that flaw affecting your images *in a way you can detect* is fairly small. However, thanks to the fastidiousness of Leica buyers, it should have a pronounced effect on the price. Figure at least 30% less than a flaw-free lens. The front elment of the T-E is a small, single glass and is easily replaced by removing the retaining ring. Any competent repairman could do it, if you supply him the new element, which is surely still available from Leica. The only question is cost, I'll guess it's somewhere between $125-200.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), May 11, 2001.

I saw a similar spot on a Nikon lens a few years ago. It turned out the guy carried his lenses loose in his bag without caps(!) Anyway, it was determined the culprit was the front ring of the neighboring lens rubbing directly on the front element and actually depositing some aluminum on the glass after having removed the coating. The deposit was very hard, and as I recall the solution was having the lens polished and re-coated. If the spot is small, and doesn't affect the image, I wouldn't worry about it.

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), May 11, 2001.

I owned both T/E & M versions at the same time (still own the M version - it is a super lens). I liked the handling and size of T/E a lot and wanted to keep it but after much side by side testing with the M version I sold the T/E . T/E is definitely much cooler and is not as good as lens as the M version specially close up.

-- Sait Akkirman (akkirman@clear.net.nz), May 12, 2001.

I have a TE thin, and I have the famous "etching"on rear element. I send to Leica repair to CLA, and the lenses come back OK. I like much this lense for a studio portraits, and the TE is fine now. I think is not a big problem.

-- Edson Redivo (redivoclick@terra.com.br), May 12, 2001.

I just bought a 90mm Tele-Elmarit (thin). The price was right, and the front element has a 2mm dot dead center - where someone used a low filter. I have seen one lens with the rear element fungus.

I've checked the price of replacing the front element - the glass sells for about $400 - an uneconomical repair in most cases.

The lens shoots beautifully, its color tends toward cool. I test shot a Voigtlander 75mm f2.5, my lastest-model 50mm Summicron and the TE 90mm together on one roll of film. I shot the same scene at the same time in the same light. Result: the color and contrast are indistinguishable among the three lenses. They are all sharp. The TE seems softer wide open.

-- Phil Marcus (pmarcus@swbell.net), May 21, 2001.