Feminism -- the way it ought to be.greenspun.com : LUSENET : Unk's Wild Wild West : One Thread |
I haven't read much yet from this site, so I can't yet endorse it overall -- but, from what I've seen at first pass, I love.
ifeminism
-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 08, 2001
Oooh lookie, a QUIZ!Results: I am an Ifeminist.
Ok, this is good. But will it give me an 'in' at parties? Would it be productive to open conversations with "I'm an Ifeminist, doncha know? I think prostitution should be legalized. How about you, Miss Finicky Fusspot?"
Sorry Eve. Silly pill kickin' in. I'll read through the site when I can. Thanks.
-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), May 08, 2001.
Rich, feel free to open up conversations like that at parties, but don’t be surprised when the other person (after the initial 5 second glassy-eyed stare) excuses herself as she suddenly remembers a “dental appointment.” And, hey -- me included. Even if you're gettin' to philosophy, sometimes I need a little "foreplay." :)
And just to clarify and distinguish the “ifeminists” from the others...
As I see it, the “ifeminists” extract and value the rugged individualist/libertarian side of feminism -- the way it was originally meant to be, and ought to be, in any case -- and discard the collectivist, tribal, egalitarian, government-handout-seeking, affirmative action, "diversity"-worshipping, male hating -- especially white male hating -- side.
To any of the "other feminists" that may be present: Really -- I didn't mean that in a BAD way. (Eve here uses eleven facial muscles suppressing a grin that, in the end, well, just won't be denied.)
-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 08, 2001.
Eve, I see, ifeminist is a kinder gentler feminist. Does that also include compassionate feminist? j
-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 08, 2001.
Doh J
-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 08, 2001.
Eve is frisky this morning, I see. ;)I feel a discourse on philosophical foreplay - easily transfered into other areas of life - bubbling up like a Yellowstone geyser 'bout ready to explode. Somebody find me a cork, quick. :)
Maria, what the hell is that thang hangin' and danglin' at the end of the body of your post?
-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), May 08, 2001.
Maria, yes -- seriously -- compared to the other feminists, the ifeminist absolutely OOZES compassion (not to mention kinder, gentler, etc.). There's lots of hatred, venom, envy etc. in many of the others. Of course, I don't say all, because some of them are well meaning, but just haven't been exposed to the underlying philosophy or principles. Once you see what THAT's all about.....well.....let's just say that if I was explaining it to you on an airplane I'd have to ask you to pull out and open the bag and "get ready" -- just in case.
By the way, Maria -- what WAS that thing in your first post? Did your pen leak?
Rich -- hmmmmm.......you're not gettin' overly Freudian on me now, are ya? :)
-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 08, 2001.
By the way, to get to the home page at the "ifeminist" site, just go to the web address above, and delete back, up to ".com". You can get to more cool stuff from there.
-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 08, 2001.
Rich, Eve, I should have put J instead of j. To directly answer your question I can only guess. It looks like some greek letters combined.Eve, I agree that some have chosen the harsh way to make their feminism known. I never followed that philosophy. Feminism doesn't equate to bashing others. However, I don't agree with ifeminism on prostition. Of course, if a woman wants to do, by all means, have at it - their life their choice. But, this doesn't disolve the notion that this is a demeaning way of life. In college, I had some friends who danced. They tried to get me to do it, talking about the benefits, great pay, "You could study between sets. Strip for five minutes, then go back to the dressing room to sudy. Couple hundred bucks an hour, for five minutes of work. Not bad." I couldn't do it. Aside from the moral questions, I just couldn't treat myself that way.
-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 08, 2001.
Eve:I kinda/sorta got into the feminist movement when it first started, but found myself in disagreement with some of the "factions". That's nothing new to my life. I got involved with anti-war protestors and drew the line when some folks blamed the GI's. I got involved with the SDS and drew the line with the Weatherman faction. I got involved with the debunkers on the Y2k issue, but drew the line on going beyond correcting the misinformation.
According to the test, I'm an Individual Feminist. Moving back a few yards, however, I want to mention the Paula Jones' case and why more folks like me maybe didn't want to get involved. While I think that women have EVERY right to engage in a profession of prostitution and engage in what some consider pornographic "spreads", I have little sympathy for women like Paula who gain reputations for such things and then wonder why someone would make a pass and then claim discrimination because they refused the pass. This is not to say that I don't think that women who have engaged in prostitution or engaged in pornographic "spreads" shouldn't be treated fairly in the workplace. It's only to say that one if one has a reputation for such things, one should, perhaps, move somewhere where no one knows this about you if a fresh start is really what you want.
We've already been through this many times before, but I've found "sensitivity training" and some threats of discrimination by women a total curse to women on the job who followed. I'd much rather hear some ridiculous jokes at the office than be treated like an outcast. I'd much rather hear a co-worker suggest that *I* should get his coffee because *I*'m a woman and tell him myself where he can go with THAT one, or even just look at him, smile, and walk away.
-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 08, 2001.
Maria and Anita -- lots of good points -- I agree with most of 'em.Maria, I’m curious -- what if you’d been asked to pose nude for an art class or an individual artist? For pay or not.
Anita -- wow -- I’m very impressed with your activism. Regarding Paula, though -- I'm a little hazy on the facts right now -- but wasn't it more than just "a pass"? I recall it was an elaborate set- up at a hotel. Also, I feel that an honest attempt at a fresh start should be honored and respected, without the necessity of having to move. But I realize that that's kind of idealistic, given the jerks that are out there who'd always choose to remember her as she was.
-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 09, 2001.
Eve, I did pose nude for two friends of mine who are photographers. I trusted them and just had fun with it. Like I said, morality is not the issue.The coffee reminds me of an incident a few years ago. We were preparing for a major meeting with the customer, I was sort of doing the "logistics" of setting it up. Someone mentioned coffee and my boss said he could get a 100 cup maker. Fine, on the morning of the meeting, I posted signs, made a few graphics and copies, and got the donuts. When I got to my desk, I found the coffee pot sitting there cold, no water, no filter and no coffee. I screwed myself into the ceiling. "What is this? Just because I'm a woman, I know how to make coffee!? I never made coffee in my life; I don't even own a coffee pot!" Everyone knew my displeasure, including my boss, who quitely closed his office door. A male co-worker made the coffee. It was pretty funny. To this day, he recounts the story and we laugh about it. As a joke, he brought back a thong bikini from Rio and said that we (any employee, Equal Opportunity) must wear "the uniform" when making coffee.
-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 09, 2001.
Eve: The details are fuzzy in MY mind at this point, as well, but I followed the case VERY carefully at the time. It began when she accepted an invitation to a hotel/motel room. What went on in the room is he said/she said stuff. The bottom line was that he knew about her reputation and she accepted the invite. I don't know about you, Eve, but an invitation to a hotel/motel room would throw up a red flag for me and I would suggest a more appropriate place if a meeting was the intention. Of course my undisciplined mind is reminded of a time when my boss called me from a restaurant/bar near the office. He said he wanted me to meet him there to "talk". I said, "Okay" and prepared to leave the office for a one-block or less walk to the restaurant. When my co-workers queried me about where I was going, I said, "Jim called and asked me to meet him at _______". Funny thing was, I'd mixed up the name of the restaurant with the name of a hotel. They said, "You're going?" I said, "Yeah...why not?" I wondered why they had these strange looks on their faces.To make a long story short, Jim was newly appointed to the job by his predecessor. He'd been drinking [probably since lunch hour, so at least an hour.] He was, basically, crying in his soup. It had occurred to him that he'd stolen a car when he was 17 or 18 and he was afraid the company would find out about it, fire him, and he'd lose his livelihood and all he'd worked for. What he REALLY wanted was a little "female sympathy...wink, wink". I just said, "I can't help you out there, Jim, but I'm sure everything will work out okay." I then left and returned to the office. My co-workers just about had their tongues hanging out waiting to hear what had happened. I said, "Nothing. He just wanted to talk" and went back to work. It wasn't until the next day that I learned I'd mixed up the name of the restaurant and the hotel. We all had a good laugh over that.
-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 09, 2001.
Old joke--Q-Why does it take millions of sperm to fertilize one egg?
A-Because they won't ask for directions
-- (nemesis@awol.com), May 09, 2001.
Maria, re the coffee deal -- cool story. My style might have been different; I would have calmly brought the pot to the boss and noted that someone must have misplaced it, as I’d found it on my desk...In this context, it's always nice to remember that we may need a job, but we don’t need any particular job. :)
Anita – re the restaurant/hotel thing -- LOL - I love it! If I'd been in your position, after I’d learned, I would have been tempted to keep ‘em guessin’ – maybe for a week or more! Tempted, that is. Not that I’d have the guts to pull it off.
Isn't it easy for us "armchair quarterbacks" to sit here and speculate on what WE would have done?
-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 09, 2001.
moderate hmmm
-- (cin@cin.cin), May 09, 2001.