A long time friend of mine, whose opinion I respect, has just e-mailed me this:

1 a more effective Board of Directors

2 a better designed and hugely more cost effective Stadium

3 a much higher proportion of the Sunderland squad earn their wages

4 Sunderland ,currently, have a passionate Geordie in their team

5 a better crowd atmosphere (assisted by clearer PA system and stirring introductory classical music.)

6 a more respectable post flotation share price

7 better liaison with fans/ a more "caring" club especially for youngsters

8 much shrewder transfer dealings.

9 half time entertainment is nothing new.

10 ........ the League position does not lie .

compiled by a Newcastle United Season Ticket holder,Bond holder,shareholder and lifelong fan .

Painful stuff...

Pray debate...

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2001

Answers

As an 'exile', I can't farely comment on 2. and 5., the rest, I'm afraid are painfully true?

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2001

"fairly" - so much for my Dictaphone!

;-(

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

1 a more effective Board of Directors - PR better, local media on their side

2 a better designed and hugely more cost effective Stadium - Surely the fans, local council are at fault here, didn't existing shareholders etc want to stay at SJP while the club wanted to move?

3 a much higher proportion of the Sunderland squad earn their wages- Injuries, lack of managieral consistency.

4 Sunderland ,currently, have a passionate Geordie in their team - while we have them on the bench.

5 a better crowd atmosphere (assisted by clearer PA system and stirring introductory classical music.) - Never, Never should we allow a PA system to create an atmosphere, turning much of the top Leazes tier into a Pay on the Day will create a decent atmosphere that will spread around the ground

6 a more respectable post flotation share price - Depends on the capitalisation, more shares in issue makes a lower share price.

7 better liaison with fans/ a more "caring" club especially for youngsters - If you have to give away freebies, it's bound to keep people hapy.

8 much shrewder transfer dealings - HOrses for courses, Sunderland have bought players to fit a system, to move forward they will have to spend more - only Phillips, Arca & Hutcheson would get in our team.

9 half time entertainment is nothing new. - We don't need it, half time is for having a pie, pint or reading the fanzine not learing at pre-pubescent girls with pom poms.

10 ........ the League position does not lie - fat lady singing.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

Sorry Bud but no true Newcastle fan I know or respect would sit around trying to think up ways in which any team - let alone the makems - are better than the club they say they support.

Frustration at events of the last few weeks (decades) is understandable but frankly I'm sick and tired of fucking bandwagon jumpers who continually seem to look for ways of knocking the club I love. As far as I'm concerned they can all piss right off back to where they come from. I'll still be just as proud to support a club in the lower divisions that only a few thousand turn up to watch. Naturally I don't want that and nor do I believe that it will happen but one benefit would be not having to listen to this sort of shit. Maybe this doesn't apply to your mate but sorry it sure as hell sounds that way from where I'm sitting. And you can feel free to forward this to him with my email address on it if he wants to respond.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

sorry bud - after re-reading your original post I actually noticed this time the 'lifelong fan' reference so maybe I'm doing nowt but take out my own frustrations on the wrong person ? As I said, there's getting pissed off cos you really care - and there's getting pissed off cos they're a gloryhunter.

Who knows, maybe even your mate would admit he needs a holiday (or some good drugs) if he's starting to see things from a mackem perspective ?!

:o7

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

TWO MORE REASONS :-

1. Sunderland are unbeaten in Europe for more than a quarter of a century.

2. Sunderland have played in more divisions than Newcastle.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

jonno, I only put this up for 'debate'.

I think you've mis-read the thread's title "...CURRENTLY..."

;-)

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

The top tier of the Leazes is already full of pay on the day people and most of them never open their mouths. I have 4 seats directly in front of me, 1 behind and 2 on my right and I have yet to hear anything from any of the 120 odd individuals who have sat there. They have, however, spent a lot of money on food and drink and most of them bought a programme.

Might as well change our name to Villa Park and only sell out to "big teams" where you get a bunch of neutrals who want to see a "cracking soccer game". Shudder.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

At least he (my long time friend) is interested in a debate ( he's not aware of this BBS), his latest comments, & his (original) nomenclature:

1 Douglas Hall should not be on any Board; Freddie Shepherd is as thick as two short planks

2 the fact remains the club has a debt of £79m as a result of the development, yet Douglas says we will spend £100m on players....

3 No, they try more and they do not have the malingerers & crap players that we do

4 "Them " on the bench; Shola is the only Geordie on the bench; Harper is a Mackem.

5 I have been to Sunderland reasonably often and am at St James every other week; their atmosphere is much better...the PA etc doesn't create the atmosphere but it doesn't do it any harm e.g. " I feel good ..." (James Brown?) when they score is quite effective- we have nowt.

6 don't tell your granny to suck eggs; the Sunderland share price is higher now than at flotation; the Newcastle share price is only 25% of what it was floated at.

7 Sunderland actually reply to letters and you can ring them and get through to a human; at Newcastle you are either ignored are treated like muck.

8 Add to your list Simonsen, Vega,Thome and the leggy young midfielder whose name escapes me.Look at the quality of our signings -Des Hamilton, Carl Serrant, Marcellino etc etc

9 I think I would definitely have to disagree with you (not me!) here.

10 want a bet then?

I think this deserves (at least) a bit of alkatraz?

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

"Add to your list Simonsen, Vega,Thome and the leggy young midfielder whose name escapes me.Look at the quality of our signings -Des Hamilton, Carl Serrant, Marcellino etc etc "

Quite obviously Sunderland biased.

If you rephrase this with Kevin Kilbane, Milton Nunez, Daniele Dichio, John Oster, compared to Kieron Dyer, Alan Shearer, Shay Given, it looks a lot more favourable. It's all in the players you choose.

"the fact remains the club has a debt of £79m as a result of the development, yet Douglas says we will spend £100m on players...."

If you extened your house, this would be a debt also, but you'd just add it to your existing mortgage. As the extensions are part of the "home" of the club, this is basically a mortgage, paid back over 17 years, so it's hardly a massive debt like Real Madrid.

I firmly believe that with a fit Alan Shearer and Kieron Dyer for most of the season (when has Hutchison or Phillips been injured this season?) we would be above Sunderland in the league. In fact I have no doubt. Obviously I can't prove that point, but you can't just go out and spend money to replace players like Dyer and Shearer for six months while they recover, it's simply a waste of resources.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

To give you some sort of reponse Bud, I find it really difficult to argue with much of what your amigo is saying. However, I would have to add - who gives a fig? The reality is that Manure, Arsenal, Leeds, Liverpool, Chelsea and Ipswich are also better than us right now - as arguably are even Charlton, Southampton, WHU and Villa. So what?

We are Toon fans, and couldn't really give a toss for what happens down the road. I'd rather focus on what needs fixing at the Toon than making pointless comparisons with the barber's poles, and this is where I personally focus my attention - not that it actually achieves very much in a positive sense.

Having said all that, your mucker is quite entitled to his opinion.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

Re: No2 The Stadium.

My mate's cousin is an architect and worked on the original SJP development to up capacity to 36600. He refused to work on the new extension as he felt it would make the stadium 'look crap'

The same firm of architects worked on the Stade de Merde and guess what....it's based EXACTLY on the SJP designs. So as for it being 'better designed'...that's just B*LL*CKS.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2001

True Min, the SOS is based on four stands of the same design as the Gallowgate & oldish leazes, also the same as Eland Rd & Old trafford. The new stands at SJP are the most advanced in the country, and morre expensive. We should have moved grounds but the fans dodn't want to, even so, the "new" ground design was more advanced than Sunderlands jelly mould.

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2001