If I had a decent server or even a decent PC, I could have included this at the end of the other thread on Friendship, but I've already tried to get into that thread on "Can your town be nuked" [or something like that], and I can never get to the bottom.

Anyway, I've had a lot of thoughts on this of late. It seems to ME that our friends are a truly mixed lot. I enjoy the diversity of humans. SO does as well. Some of our friends have Doctorates and some of them are policemen, secretaries, and house cleaners who barely finished high-school, if they even did that. We don't get together to engage in one-upmanship. We get together to have fun and share ideas and even debate those ideas. We can do this long into the night or until someone has to run home and take out the dog. If an evening includes dinner, we take into account the vegetarians in the group and try to accommodate a meal that everyone can enjoy.

I'm just a little baffled by comments from some posters. I remember reading something about my coming to the defense of Cin and 'Sumer this week. Why in the world would I have anything against either of these women? Certainly we disagree on some things. I eat meat, for instance, and Cin doesn't. Does this mean that I should hate her? 'Sumer and I may not agree on everything either, but I haven't [in several years now] found any reason to dislike her.

There seem to be dividing lines that don't exist in my world and I have a hard time understanding the resentment. I see Tarzan as a free-thinker. He made his choice on his mate and he made a choice to shelter women that he felt were being unjustly aggravated by folks that didn't believe what they were doing was correct. I honor him for that. To ME, he's a guy I'd enjoy sharing an evening with. Actually, there are quite a few posters on this forum that I'd enjoy sharing an evening with. We had a great time in LV and I didn't look at Carlos as a doomer, and I don't think he looked at me as a polly.

So...what do you use as a criteria when you choose your friends?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 02, 2001

Answers

Anyone with a sense of humor and deep laugh lines.

-- helen (hardeeh@rdee.harhar), May 02, 2001.

Anita:

Why, anyone willing to listen to me. Occasional nods of agreement accepted but not required.

More seriously, I doubt this question can be answered sensibly. People are too multifaceted and dynamic, so I think approaching anyone with any preset "friendship criteria" would be more likely to work against you than for you. I'd have problems finding anything definably common among the friends I do have.

Then again, charisma is defined as that undescribable something or other that girls with big tits have.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 02, 2001.

what do you use as a criteria when you choose your friends?

I don't choose my friends, they just happen. One of my closest friends, we are like sisters, I met when her husband brought her over to my place. He moved in the neighborhood first and got to know us, she followed soon after. It took 5 minutes of talking to each other then we were going like mad~telling each other about our lives and about ourselves. We took to each other instantly. She even lived with me after breaking up with her husband. If I call her and ask a favor, she will do it without question. When my brother died, I called and asked her to come, she lives in California now, she was here the next day. I would and have done the same for her., Another friend I have had since childhood, we are close and throughout the years have fallen into and out of step with each other. But have always had a quiet, knowing friendship, even though we believe completly different things.

Different things bring people together, and cause friendships to happen.

-- Cherri (jessam5@home.com), May 02, 2001.

You're probably right, Flint...not, necessarily about the big-titted girls, but about the criteria being defined in advance. I've been walking several miles a few times a week with some neighbors, one of which is the woman married to the guy who just mowed my lawn this weekend. She's just so entertaining that I don't even realize I've been walking until I'm home again and then I kindof want to say, "Can we do that again?" Actually, one time I DID say that and we DID repeat the two miles [or whatever it is.]

I agree with you, Helen. A sense of humor is something I look for in a friend. [Just as an aside, I disagreed with your last comment on the thread I started on racial diversity or something. I felt you'd misunderstood what I was trying to say. I thought about responding but I thought, "To what end?" I felt it a better choice to let the thread die. If you're ever interested, we can hash it out amongst ourselves via E-mail. It just wasn't that important, and I enjoy you too much to let little things get blown into big things.]

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 02, 2001.

Cherri: I understand what you mean. I have some friends in Chicago like that. In fact, I received an E-mail lately that said, "Come again soon. I'm fearful that our next visit will require us both wearing name-tags because we've changed so much." These friends COULD visit ME here in Texas, but [afterall], we did all grow up in Chicago. In addition, I have a female friend in Chicago who has an ex-husband that moved to Texas and her fear of this state is equivalent to that of Louise in the "Thelma and Louise" movie.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 02, 2001.

I could never be friendly with someone who would have me as a friend.

-- (nemesis@awol.com), May 03, 2001.

What Cherri said. Friends just sort of happen.

I'm personally drawn to two sorts of people: the intelligent (but not the snobbish!) and those whom no one else likes. When I was in school, I always made friends with the class geek or the guy that everyone picked on. Don't know why, I just did.

I am strongly deflected by mindless natterers and gossips who are mostly interested in discussing clothing and who's sleeping with whom. (Sandy's the same way in that respect.) Boring.

On the way to work in the morning, Sandy and I discuss the latest news, what's up in the world, what God is like, all sorts of things. Whatever crosses our damaged minds. That's one reason why I married her; she very intelligent.

She's my best friend.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), May 03, 2001.

What criteria do you use to choose your friends?

Must Haves:

Four legs. Fur. Wet nose.

Would Likes:

Willing to sleep with me. Eats what I cook without too much griping.

Stephen, you're a very fortunate man...and you know it. Beautiful thing, that. :)

-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), May 03, 2001.

LOL nemesis you're so funny!

-- (cin@cin.cin), May 03, 2001.

Criteria? None. If I meet someone, usually 'we' just know if we are going to connect or not.

Example, I met my hubby's brothers gal, she is a biker woman, real street savy, and tough, to put it mildly. OTOH, she has a heart of gold. I 'tried' to make a go of the friendship, but she became VERY moody. I am the type if you are a friend, I'd give you my last dollor, I was raised that way. I took this woman to her campsite, when she didnt drive, bought her food, hung out, etc....

But still, to her, it wasnt enough. She was downright MEAN to me. I put up w/alot, let alot of it go, but the camping trip was the LAST straw.

A friend imo, is someone you KNOW if you call they will be there.

And vice-versa w/me. It seems that each time I do make a new female friend, there is almost ALWAYS caddyness involved. I despise that. I luv woman w/good sense of humor who will 'put up' with me when down, and love me even if I'm down.

I've done alot for my friends, but sometimes me wonders if.....me be co-dependent?

ah shit, thread drift. sorry.

-- sumer (shh@aol.con), May 03, 2001.

Anita, I've certainly got a list of attributes that I would value in a friend (as I'm sure we all do), but when I'm forging a friendship, the growth of the relationship is built on my feelings and thoughts, of course -- but it's all implicit, and although it's hard to explain, deep down somehow I know when it's working. Of course, the other person builds the relationship too, but I obviously can't speak for her/him. Things that makes the whole thing obvious, though, and are very important to me, are honesty, trust and communication. The other person should have a high self-respect and be independent. Oh yes, a sense of humor definitely couldn't hurt. And a really wild, bent sense of humor would be even better. Although I probably missed some important characteristics, I believe a mutual love and respect will usually develop out of these things.

LOL! It sounds like I'm doing a personal ad! ("And long walks on the beach are important to me, and you shouldn't be afraid to cry...") I'm really not, though.

You know, the friendships that turn out the most rewarding for me is when we don't have to check our words or thoughts too much before we share them (although I realize there are parts of all of us that will remain forever private, and that's ok) -- when it can all flow freely -- including laughter, tears or whatever -- is what really does it for me. Shared quiet moments are very important, too, though -- ones where no one feels they have to say anything. I guess I just let things progress naturally -- and I almost always know when things start to click.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 03, 2001.

I wrote:

Would Likes:

Willing to sleep with me. Eats what I cook without too much griping.

That comes off as if I'm a sex-starved amatuer chef! Both lists pertain to pets. I cook for my dogs. All three pets sleep in bed with me.

-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), May 03, 2001.

Eve: ditto for me. Well stated.

-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), May 03, 2001.

Stephen--

What a novel idea---the spouse as best friend. Congratulations.

This past Sunday my cousin and her husband stopped by as they drove back to Chicago home from a trip to Atlanta. They are my age, high school sweethearts who have been married over 40 years. They have a grown son and daughter and 8 grandchildren (so far). We went out to dinner. They are interesting, inspiring people.

They are both educated and are obviously best friends. They never fell out of love, only grew closer over the years. On their long drive, they brought many tapes to listen to---mostly tapes on Eastern religions. Although they are strong in their Christian faith, they have an interest in everything. They enjoy discussing ideas and enjoy gently kidding eachother as well.

Their love and friendship are all intertwined. There can be a depth in an ongoing continuous relationship that exists nowhere else. I am not surprised that their two highly educated children are so well grounded. They had a terriffic example.

Again, congratulations. Connubial friendship, I wish I had thought of that!

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), May 03, 2001.

I like what Stephen said about the damaged mind. There's just something attractive to me about folks who are a little nuts. My kids noticed I was a little nuts while they were growing up. I guess I did goofy things that other mothers didn't. On daughter #2's visit last weekend she discussed the time we'd walked to the store and on the way home got caught in a rain storm. I'd spied the park across the street and said, "What do ya think? Are the slides faster or slower when they're wet?" We got TOTALLY messed up that day, slapping our wet butts into the sand at the bottom of the slide, laughing like a bunch of lunatics. The paper bags containing our groceries fell apart when we tried to lift them, but we all just carried the food and the sopping bags home.

I REALLY like my kids. They're ALL different, but each is so damn interesting in his/her own way. When we talk, we talk for hours and, yeah, we shed tears and laughter alike. When we E-mail, we need to allocate at least an hour to read each and another two hours to respond. We know each other's interests and offer suggestions of books, music, etc. that may be of interest to the other, even if we have no particular interest in the subject ourselves. #2's boyfriend is majorly into motivational stuff. I sent her home with a a few books and a whole shoebox of cassette tapes by some guy named Anthony Robbins. Derek thought I'd given him gold. He said he can't wait to meet me and will definitely accompany her on her next visit, and she added that she'll make these visits FAR more often.

I'm hoping to see my son after his Germany trip but before he goes off to Norway to study. Daughter #1 showed me some recent pictures of him. Heh. I knew this boy hated showering as a child, but it also seems that he refuses to shave and refuses to get his hair cut. The story goes that my Ex tried to hold him down and shave him one day, but daughter #2 caught my Ex in an armlock and my son escaped. Heh. He'll fit right in at school in Bergen. Europeans don't have these hang-ups on appearance. He may turn into the "mad" scientist some day. He's certainly got the brains for it, and insanity runs in my family.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 03, 2001.

Lars, and Rich: I agree completely that a solid friendship is the cornerstone of a lasting relationship. SO and I met in 1972 and became "fast" friends. It wasn't until 1988 or so that we developed a romantic interest after both of us had been divorced for a while. There's a little part of me that wonders if we didn't gravitate toward each other in the later years due to a sense of "safety." We KNEW the comfort we felt with each other, and we'd both dated some pretty weird types inbetween our marriages and our relationship.

It's been said by some that bad marriages lead to the people choosing the same type of mate the second time around. I didn't see that in us. My ex was one of those people who saw rain and ants when he thought of a picnic. EVERYTHING would end in disaster in his mind. SO's ex was one of those critical women. Nothing he did was right in her mind. There was just no pleasing her. I remember looking at a dead tree once and said to SO, "Geez, that tree is ugly." He said, "I've always looked at that tree and thought it was beautiful." We shopped for new slacks for him once. He came out of the dressing room and said, "I LOVE these pants!" There was a burst of positivity that jumped out of the guy's mouth all the time. I found that to be QUITE refreshing. He also has a knack for "reading" my moods. I don't have to say anything, but he picks up on the slightest movements and says, "What's bothering you?" Sometimes he knows something is bothering me before I even know myself.

When Hardliner's picnic and the LV trip came up, HE encouraged me to go to both. He said, "You've known these folks online for two years now. You'd like to meet them IRL, and you know it." He even offered to pay my airfare to LV, but I wouldn't accept that. I DO have SOME pride. He comes to me for help when he has a tough decision to make. The only thing I do is help him make a list of pros and cons. Sometimes when we lay things out on paper, it all becomes much clearer, IMO.

This is not to say that we're alike. He's TOTALLY anal-retentive and the clothes on his side of the closet have all the shirts lined up by color, type, and they're all spaced EXACTLY 1.4" apart. He's a TOTAL sports fanatic, and he has absolutely no interest in PC's or the internet except to get sports news. He doesn't expect ME to be anything like him, and I do my internet thing while he watches sports, and my side of the closet is a joke. Hey, it works for me and it works for him. This is friendship at it's best, IMO.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 03, 2001.

Anita, yes! Your point about being a little nuts is.....well.....exquisite! We only come around this life once, and I see spontaneity to the point of craziness and beyond as a very big thing.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 03, 2001.

I married my best bud. 1st time Wendy and I went out we spent half the night laughing. Very important stuff there....laughter.

I think friendship just happens when it's supposed to.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), May 03, 2001.

Eve: If you haven't already seen it, rent a copy of the movie Harold and Maude. I should really rent it again, myself, but I remember on the first viewing thinking that I wanted to grow old like THIS lady [minus the self-inflicted death at the end.] She was just so full of LIFE and didn't really give a damn what others thought about her actions. Harold was a nut-case in himself, which is why he found Maude so attractive, but I think the movie reinforced a thought I've always had regarding the one-go at this thing and making the most of it.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 03, 2001.

"The story goes that my Ex tried to hold him down and shave him one day, but daughter #2 caught my Ex in an armlock and my son escaped. Heh. He'll fit right in at school in Bergen. Europeans don't have these hang-ups on appearance."

Righto, Anita. What I really dig about European babes is that they don't shave their underarms or their legs. Funky too. Drives me wild!

-- (nemesis@awol.com), May 03, 2001.

Nemesis

Yuck!! (probably the 1st time you've grossed me out instead of cracked me up)

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), May 03, 2001.

LOL, Nemesis. I spent an evening with a young woman from France. We'd met a man who was staying at her house on the train into Paris and we all met at an outdoor cafe one night. She had a habit of saying, "Pfftt!" Every time she expressed this non-word, she blew bad breath in my direction.

Um...[not meaning to gross out Deano], but not only do European women not shave under their arms, but they carry loaves of bread home from the store tucked under those arms. Well...at least women do this in SOME countries. Deoderant is also not commonly used, and water is considered a precious commodity, so bathing isn't performed daily. A ride to work on the subway in France or Rome is similar to one encountered in the Bronx or Chicago in that folks are packed like sardines, but the olfactory sensations are DEFINITELY different. Like anything else, one gets used to it after a while, as gross as it may sound.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), May 03, 2001.

LOL Anita! Yet, gross at the same time.......

Was in Publix last summer, hot July day, in the checkout line. Large woman who hadn't bathed recently was in line behind me. Other folks were looking around, noses scrunched up - she freakin' S-T-U-N-K out loud! Had some hygiene products in my cart (couple things of bath gel and a couple ap/deoderant things. After the dude loaded my cart, I took one of each out, put it in her pile and said, 'Jesus Christ lady, do yourself and everyone that comes in your general area a favor and use these damned things." I'm sure it embarrassed the crap out of her. But hey, that funk like stuck to my nose hairs, I could still smell it when I got home!!

I saw a couple folks give me the thumbs up on the way out.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), May 03, 2001.

Deano, Roflmao....

Tell me you didnt? LMAO.....

-- sumer (shh@aol.con), May 03, 2001.

Deano, shame!

Anita, not to start thread drift, but the last thread you mentioned dealt with a situation close to home. I showed it to some other people in the same situation, and they understood you the same way I did. And truly it doesn't matter. :)

-- helen (bad@ss.boy), May 03, 2001.

sumer

I definitely did.

helen

Trust me, one whiff of this woman and you might have done the same.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), May 03, 2001.

I dig the wet slide story, Anita. The sheer joy of experiencing one's child's childhood.

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), May 03, 2001.