Opinions please on Nam issue

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Unk's Wild Wild West : One Thread

Just wanted your thoughts on this.

Nam conflict and medals awarded

I looked for a thread on this topic and didn't see one.

-- Maria (maria947@hotmail.com), April 30, 2001

Answers

I've not served in combat, so I have no experience which would allow me to form so much as an opinion on the morality of Kerrey's actions - real or imagined.

I will say that loyalty comes before honor for many who wear uniforms. My direct experience, and anecdotal stories I've heard, relate to cops who lie in order to protect their own. This is a pretty well known fact. So I naturally expect those who serve together to lie as they deem necessary to protect each others asses. The tighter knit the unit, the less honesty & integrity carry meaning when push comes to shove. Finally, I appreciate the service of those who place their lives on the line, from medics to pilots to combat troops. And most especially honest cops.

-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), April 30, 2001.


I've heard about this all weekend and have read several different articles on this case, but honestly, I have no opinion on this.... By definition, war is brutal; the complete suspension of accepted human behavior. How can I pass judgement on an act of war using today's standards??? And does anyone doubt that similiar cases happened in world war I and world war II?? I'm tired of these witch hunts.

-- Rob McCarthy (celtic64@mindspring.com), April 30, 2001.

It seems to me that even the men who were there have overlooked the possibility that the civilians they killed were being used as a human shield and/or the scene was altered by the retreating enemy troops.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), April 30, 2001.

My brother did nam. To this day he doesnt talk about it. He was the only survivor of his platoon. He did share somethings w/my mom.

Imho, I read an editorial in our local paper which stated "Those on the hill should go with the young men/woman for 7 days to see 1st hand what they are sending them off too". Sounds good to me.

Of course I'm sure no one would do it, but it is a good thought.

I have many friends who are vets. One is recently diagnosed w/Hep C and heart valve problems, he also works for the post office. Great Combo. Nice man, he told me many stories.

Bottom line....he did what he had to do to survive, including sleeping in trees.

I personally dont think anyone should pass judgement of those in war.

War as someone else said is brutal.

-- sumer (sh@aol.con), April 30, 2001.


My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the only place a war ever looks like it makes sense is at GHQ - or in the newspapers at home. The closer you get to the ground on the front line, the more chaos creeps in, until you get down to the squad level, where the only thing that makes any sense at all is staying alive. On the front line you can't avoid contact with the enemy, so the only way to stay alive is to kill the enemy, capture him, or drive him away. What else can you do, except run away (which is why all armies shoot deserters)?

From what I hear, the trouble in Vietnam was that even at GHQ nobody had a clear idea of what their troops were supposed to accomplish. Taking territory was meaningless. Using foot soldiers with guns and grenades to "win hearts and minds" is just f*cking crazy!

By the time this confusion got pushed down to the squad level, our boys in Vietnam never had a clue what to do and most of the time they couldn't even identify the enemy - which would be an outright crazy-making problem for a foot soldier. If you can't even identify the enemy, then all you can do is die. Or kill randomly. Or both. Apparently, that's exactly what they did.

It was a crying, nasty shame to do that to them.

-- Miserable SOB (misery@misery.com), April 30, 2001.



Personally, I protested the Vietnam War. What made me really sick to my stomach, however, was the return of the Vets from Vietnam just to hear some folks call them "baby killers", etc. My brother served in Vietnam and my boyfriend served in Vietnam. It wasn't a war where the enemy was obvious. A G.I. could take pity on a poor, starving waif just to be blown up by that child. The Viet Cong didn't look any different from the villagers, and some villages sympathized with the Viet Cong and some didn't. How is a G.I. to discern these things?

I've read a number of articles on Kerry's accounts of the situation. Some of the folks involved said that the Viet Cong had the civilian Villagers in front of them, while shooting at the G.I.'s around them. If that's the case, they were pawns in the war, puppets used to further an end. Human perception being what it is, however, we may never really know what happened. If 10 people witness an accident, one may receive 10 different accounts of what happened.

Kerrey isn't the first who has come forward and said, "I'm tired of being classified as a hero." There are oftentimes movies written about soldiers who received medals simply because they were the only G.I. who survived a particular battle. I remember watching one wherein the G.I. said, "I only survived because I RAN when the battle started." Kerrey feels as though he's "held this inside" for 32 years and HE feels a sense of release by clearing the record. This doesn't mean that his perception of it all was correct. I don't know that we'll ever know WHOSE perception of it all was correct, and I think there's a part of us that doesn't even want to know.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 30, 2001.


Anita, So very well spoken. No truer words have been written

A part of us DONT really wanna know.

The things i was told, by my friend to lessen his burden, what pain.

I didnt want to know all that. But, it helped my friend a little, I think.

Miserable, right on your opinion's make a great deal of sense and alot of what you said, I've been told.

-- sumer (sh@aol.con), April 30, 2001.


Sumer, tell your friend with continuos use of Ozone he will acheive normal liver function. He can get set up for about $600. He can go here for the protocol, and just about all thats needed.

www.keephope.net

-- 8ball (side@pocket.com), April 30, 2001.


Maria isn't interested in Vietnam or medals awarded, she's just another shit-slinging Republican who is still pissed off that Clinton liked Monica better than her.

-- (her motives @ are. transparent), April 30, 2001.

Her motives, thanks for that illuminating analysis. Damn! I AM way too jealous of Monica :)

I find that the press is making a big deal about this and wondered what the folks here thought. Nam was a dirty, ugly war, not idolized in movies like WWII. We did everything wrong there and lost. Thirty years later, it doesn't look any prettier and for the press to beat up on Kerry is like putting lipstick on a pig. It doesn't help. All that we (as a nation) can do, is learn from it and try not to make the same mistakes.

Thanks for your honest responses (except the obvious butt head remark).

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 01, 2001.



I take umbrage at your suggestion my remarks were those of a butthead. I've been called butthead by those far more qualified than you, Maria.

(Actually, I just wanted to use the word 'umbrage')

-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), May 01, 2001.


Rich, no her motives has you beat in the butthead area. But I applaud your efforts :)

Even though you didn't comment on the morality of Kerry's action I did note your "stick by your teammate" aspect. I agree with it and a certain amount of it plays here. I think though that the tragedy of Nam goes deeper.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 01, 2001.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ