TAIWAN - EU threatens to sink US/Taiwan sub deal

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BBC Wednesday, 25 April, 2001, 21:47 GMT 22:47 UK

EU threatens to sink US/Taiwan sub deal

Some of Taiwan's current subs are of World War II vintage

By Rob Broomby in Berlin

Plans by US President George W Bush to sell weapons including eight diesel-powered submarines to Taiwan have received an embarrassing setback at the hands of European governments.

Neither the Germans nor the Dutch, who have sown up the market in diesel submarines, are willing to allow the sale of the subs to Taiwan.

That leaves Mr Bush in the unusual position of having promised to sell technology his country does not control, and may have difficulty supplying.

US Government officials implied recently that the Germans or the Dutch may be able to supply the controversial subs.

However Juergen Rohweder, a spokesman for the German shipbuilders, HDV, told the BBC: "We have not been asked by the US or the Taiwanese governments to sell the submarines."

He admitted the company would like a share of the $1.1bn deal, but "the German Government rules are clear", he said - "it's not allowed."

Exports forbidden

Michael Steiner, senior foreign policy advisor to Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, was equally categorical.

"No application has been made and it would never be approved."

German and Dutch rules forbid arms exports to regions in crisis, and few relationships are as tense as that between China and Taiwan.

London-based defence analyst, Paul Beaver, of Jane's, said: "No European Union country would consider selling to Taiwan."

That leaves the United States in the unusual position of trying to work up its own submarine project.

The only company that could provide such submarines would be the Mississippi-based shipbuilding firm Ingalls - but they have not built a diesel-powered sub since the 1960s.

No plans

Company spokesman Randy Belote told the BBC: "We have the capacity and capability to assist with the project," but admitted the firm did not have a design to work with.

"There are designs out there," he said, enigmatically - but refused to be drawn on the timescale for developing a diesel-powered submarine.

The company now builds nuclear powered vessels, a very different enterprise.

Defence experts doubt that Ingalls could build submarines that the Taiwanese could afford, as they would be starting almost from scratch.

"I wish them luck," said and official in Berlin with a touch of sarcasm.

The speculation began after a briefing by White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer.

He was asked by reporters on Tuesday whether the Germans or the Dutch had been consulted about the Taiwanese arms sale.

He said that "procurement decisions, contracting decisions" would be made "down the road" and "it would not be appropriate to make those decisions or consultations prior to the announcement to the Taiwanese of the weapons that we are prepared to sell to them".

The diesel subs would be part of a package of US arms which would include Kidd-class destroyers and P-3C submarine-hunting aircraft.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2001

Answers

This is interesting.. I guess the Germans don't think the Mid-East is in crisis, because last fall, there were quite a few news stories about the Germans rushing to finish 3 diesel subs for the Isrealis.. (and rumours that the subs were being modified for Cruise missile delivery)..

cheers
brent

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2001


Pentagon searching for sub builders

By Bill Gertz THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The Pentagon has begun the process of procuring up to eight diesel-powered submarines for Taiwan and is anticipating "political problems" from China in the process, U.S. government officials said yesterday.

The process is being directed by the Defense Cooperation Security Agency, which already has begun contacting foreign governments in search of a submarine-design license.

The agency is looking for a design that can be licensed to one of two U.S. shipbuilders that would bid for the contract, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The governments of Germany and the Netherlands said Tuesday they would not help the United States by licensing the design of their diesel submarines.

"The Germans have a good design. The Dutch have a good design. I believe the Italians -- there are good designs for diesel electric submarines out there," Pentagon spokesman Rear Adm. Craig Quigley told reporters on Tuesday.

But a U.S. government official said yesterday that the administration expects China to take steps behind the scenes to make it hard to procure design plans.

"There are a lot of different ways it could be done," said the official. "There are other producers besides the Netherlands and Germany. That said, there are going to be political problems with all third parties."

China´s communist government is very aggressive in threatening economic retaliation against any nation that provides arms or military assistance to Taiwan.

Other nations that could be provide a submarine design for the submarine deal include Australia, Britain and Japan. Another possibility is that a U.S. shipbuilder could construct the submarines from scratch. However, officials said that would sharply increase the costs for the weapons.

"The cheapest way is to purchase an existing design and build it here," the official said.

Asked about the difficulties in getting a design license, Adm. Quigley said: "We are reasonably sure that if the Taiwanese wish to come through us to obtain submarines, then we will find a way to make that work. . . . We are confident that we can find a way to make that happen."

The United States does not manufacture diesel submarines and officials said the most likely builder would be the Ingalls shipyard in Mississippi.

Ingalls officials have told the U.S. government they would be able to construct the submarines based on a foreign design.

President Bush on Monday approved the sale of the submarines to bolster Taiwan´s defenses against a Chinese blockade or submarine attack.

The Taiwanese are expected to go ahead with the purchase because of the buildup of Chinese naval forces opposite the island. China recently purchased two guided-missile destroyers from Russia and also is buying four Kilo-class attack submarines.

In addition to the submarines, which in the past were rejected by the Clinton administration as offensive arms, the Bush administration has approved the sale of Mark 48 torpedos, among the Navy´s most capable weapons.

The administration also approved the sale of Harpoon anti-ship missiles that can be fired from the submarines.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2001


OK I admit it I'm old.

Doesn't Electric Boat still have a few deisel-electric designs gathering dust somewhere?? Or even a few up to date ones??

And then the conspiricist in me suggests that the first one or two might happen to be flying a flag of convenience right now that looks a LOT like the Israeli flag.....

Milo

http://sunsite.unc.edu/hyperwar/USN/ships/SS/SS-224_Cod.html


BTW that is a SUPERB restaurant in the left background that looks like a barge...

http://www.usscod.org/tour.html

take the tour....

-- Anonymous, April 27, 2001

The Brits have some diesel subs hanging about too but I doubt Blair would offer them. If Bush is the guy we think he is and I think he is (!), he'll find a way to get those subs to Taiwan. I don't see why Avondale Shipyards, Ingalls or Norfolk can't build them. Taiwan surely has enough money from its exports industries to pay for them.

Buy Taiwanese!!!

-- Anonymous, April 27, 2001


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