Saturday April 21 8:33 PM ET

US Plane Flew with Peru Jet That Shot Missionaries

By Simon Gardner

LIMA, Peru (Reuters) - An American anti-drug surveillance plane was in the air with a Peruvian Air Force jet that shot down U.S. missionaries over the Amazon jungle, killing an American woman and her baby, U.S. officials said on Saturday.

The civilian aircraft was mistaken for a plane carrying drugs, a U.S. embassy official in Lima said, adding the U.S. had now suspended such ``interdiction'' surveillance flights.

However U.S. embassy officials would not comment on whether the American plane had communicated with the Peruvian jet before the Friday downing of the missionaries' aircraft, which the White House called a ``tragic accident''.

The Peruvian Air Force said it opened fire on the Cessna 185 ``floatplane'' after it failed to heed warnings to land, and that the plane had no published flight plan.

A Peruvian Defense Ministry spokesman had earlier said the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) intercepted the plane, which carried five people.

``A U.S. government tracking aircraft was in the area in support of the Peruvian intercept mission. (The plane) was mistaken for an airplane transporting contraband drugs,'' a U.S. Embassy official told Reuters, reading from a reworded State Department statement.

``The U.S. government aircraft provide location about aircraft flying in the region apparently without flight plans,'' he added, but again would not say if the unarmed U.S. plane had done so on this mission.

The spokesman said the U.S. aircraft passes such information to the Peruvian Air Force, which carries out identification and interception missions itself.

``These interdiction flights have been suspended,'' he said.

The Peruvian Air Force refused to comment further on Saturday and the DEA could not be reached for comment.

Roni Bowers, 35, of the Harrisburg, Pennsylvania-based Association of Baptists for World Evangelism, and her seven-month-old daughter Charity were killed when the plane was riddled with bullets and ditched into the Amazon River.

Bowers' husband, Jim, and their son, Cory, escaped unhurt and were flown from the crash site, 120 miles from the Colombian border, to the northern city of Iquitos overnight. The couple, from Muskegon, Michigan, had been working in Peru since 1993.

The Cessna's pilot, Kevin Donaldson, also survived, but was in a serious condition after a bullet hit him in the leg, which his son said severed major arteries.

Families Flying To Lima

The Bowers and Donaldson and his family were being flown from Iquitos to Lima, along with the bodies of the mother and child, to take a connecting flight back to the United States on Saturday evening, local media reported.

Donaldson's son Benjamin said Bowers -- who had reported seeing an American plane in the air at the time of the incident -- had been questioned by DEA agents.

``He said he was asked basic questions by the DEA, who then moved him to a hotel room,'' he told Reuters by telephone from Iquitos, as missionaries held a mass for the dead mother and child.

When Reuters called the Iquitos El Dorado hotel, staff said American ``police agents'' were with him, and would not allow anyone to talk to him.

``The United States is certainly upset by the fact that two American citizens lost their lives,'' President Bush (news - web sites) said at a Summit of the Americas in Quebec City, Canada.

Peru's Defense Ministry said the plane was unidentified, ignored warnings to land, and was fired on under anti-drug trafficking procedures.

In a communique overnight, the ministry said the Cessna had entered Peruvian airspace unannounced. Military activity and drug trafficking is rife in the jungle around Iquitos.

``After carrying out international identification and interception procedure ... which the pilot ignored ... the Peruvian Air Force plane opened fire as a last resort,'' said the communique. ``The Peruvian Air Force ... deeply regrets the loss of human life.''

Donaldson's wife Bobbi said earlier Bowers had reported to Peru's air traffic authorities by radio before the attack and believed his wife and daughter had been killed by the same bullet.

-- conform to the NWO religion (or be added @ to. Dumbya's death list), April 21, 2001

Answers

What the hell is going on here? Shrub (that little bitch!) is killing missionaries?! This is it, Georgie needs to be impeached! I swear I stepped into the freakin twilight zone some time back in early December, 1999.

-- Pinky (Fuck the@repugs.com), April 21, 2001.

Tell us what you remember about it. Does anyone know? Look around. We are ALL in the freakin twilight zone.

-- Pinky (Fuck the@repugs.com), April 21, 2001.

You know, all Clinton did was get his married dick sucked by an intern AT the office. No shit! He wanted to keep it a secret but oh no!!! The fucking repugs found out about it (Linda Tripp sucks donkey dicks) and here we are today. At least he never killed innocent missionaries! That is by far the worst thing that has happened so far under resident Bush. The list gets longer. Impeach Bush!!

-- Pinky (Fuck the@repugs.com), April 21, 2001.

Nazis like Dumbya don't like Jews, and they don't like Baptists who think that it's okay to convert Jews to belief in Jesus...

********

November 8, 1996

Baptists spar with Christians and Jews on evangelism stance

DEBRA NUSSBAUM COHEN

Jewish Telegraphic Agency

NEW YORK -- Fireworks exploded at a normally sedate convention of religious leaders when Southern Baptists sparred with Jews and fellow Christians over a recent Southern Baptist Convention resolution singling out Jews for evangelism.

The 15th National Workshop on Christian-Jewish Relations, held last week in Stamford, Conn., was the first time that a senior representative of the Southern Baptist Convention met with Jews to discuss the resolution.

Adopted in June by the country's largest Protestant denomination, the resolution has sparked widespread outrage among Jews and some Christians.

In an interview after the workshop, Philip Roberts, the director of the Southern Baptist Convention's Interfaith Witness Department, charged the Jewish community with "reverse anti-Semitism" for refusing to dialogue with Jews who have converted to belief in Jesus, but who still call themselves Jews.

A panel discussion on Christian evangelism of Jews was expected to last no more than an hour. Instead, a passionate and angry debate raged Oct. 29 from 9 p.m. until nearly midnight as Roberts defended the resolution by saying that Baptists evangelize Jews "out of love."

Many in the room were angered by Roberts' attempt to include on the panel a man who was born a Jew, converted to Christianity, is a member of the Southern Baptist Convention and actively tries to convert Jews.

Rabbi Leon Klenicki, director of interfaith affairs for the Anti-Defamation League and a member of the national planning committee for the national workshop, said the workshop's policy does not allow missionaries of any sort to participate in the biannual event.

"Jews for Jesus have tried to come many times before to present their case, saying that they are the fulfillment of the workshop, which we, both Christians and Jews, do not believe."

Trying to evangelize people "is not part of the Jewish-Christian dialogue," he added.

The Jewish participant in the three-person panel, Rabbi A. James Rudin, director of interreligious affairs at the American Jewish Committee, said the night was "tumultuous."

Added Eugene Fisher, who directs Jewish dialogue for the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, and was the Catholic panel member, "There was fury, just fury out there by both Christians and Jews" at the Southern Baptists' position said Rudin.

The Christians rendered "an even sharper critique" of the Southern Baptist position than the Jews did, which was "heartening and validating," Rudin said.

"From the floor these people -- pastors, educators and laity -- really spoke out sharply against what they consider a misreading of Christianity," he said.

But none of the arguments against his theology and his strategy made a dent in the beliefs of the Southern Baptist Convention leader.

"It was good for the Jewish people there to vent some of their anger and great for me to be able to respond and say that if we really do believe that Jesus is the way to truth and light we have as much right to share it as others do to reject it," Roberts said.

-- (Dumbya and the Fundamentalist Nazis @ will kill. those with different beliefs), April 21, 2001.

Pinky you worthless pile of human waste, in order to fuck a repug you need to grow a dick pussy boy. All these years of taking it up your fat ass have given you a sour outlook on life. You and your liberal friends are just harmless scum, not to be taken seriously. Hopefully, you traitorous cocksuckers will self-destruct and help clean up the air for the rest of us.

Have a nice day!

-- Stinky (pinky@isa.twinkie), April 22, 2001.

Stinky, you will soon find out just how "harmless" we liberals really are. Conservatives buy guns because they're scared, and they've got good reason to be. Liberals don't buy guns for protection, we have nothing to lose. We buy them because there will come a time when we will use them to kill conservatives. You conservative pigs should quit worrying about your assets, and start worrying about saving your asses. All Fascist pigs will die!!

-- conservatives are worthless shits (moreinterpretation@ugly.com), April 22, 2001.

Okay, so if every death that happens during the Bush presidency is going to be attributed to Bush, we need to look at what happened on Clinton's watch.

Shall we start with Oklahoma City? What was that--168 people?

-- If conservatives are morons (democrats are@criminally.insane), April 22, 2001.

Excuse me but McVeigh was one of your repug breathren. You don't see liberals going around blowing up buildings full of innocent people. You are such a fucked up repug to think you can blame that on Clinton. Besides you are using one of the oldest repugs tricks there are. Thats it -- keep that spotlight off of your beloved Bush. Dumbass.

-- Pinky (Fuck you@repugs.com), April 22, 2001.

"Liberals don't buy guns for protection, we have nothing to lose".

Truer words may never have been spoken.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), April 22, 2001.

What’s the big problem? If you liberals have nothing to lose, then you won’t miss it.

-- Intelligence (what@a.concept), April 22, 2001.

"Intelligence (what@a.concept)"

LOL, it's more than a concept dumbshit, you should try it some time you ignorant motherfucker.

We have nothing left to lose but there are a lot of things we're missing. Truth and Freedom are at the top of the list, for starters. Wouldn't expect you tyrannical conservative pigs to understand that.

You'll never get the chance to realize what's missing because you are gonna inherit the earth, six feet deep. Corporations will burn, fascist pigs will die.

-- (Revolution coming @ to. take the power back), April 22, 2001.

WASHINGTON JEWISH WEEK - DECEMBER 17, 1998

Bush tried to clarify his stand on Jews, heaven

Eric Fingerhut

TEXAS GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH has clarified remarks he made in 1993 which seemed to indicate that he believed only Christians had a place in heaven.

Bush, a leading contender for the Republican presidential nomination in 2000, first caused controversy when he told a story about his religious faith in an interview published in The Houston Post during his 1994 campaign for governor, and he recounted that story in a New York Times Magazine profile this September.

Bush said he was visiting his parents in the White House and, having at that time recently recommitted to religion, began to discuss “who goes to heaven” with his mother, Barbara. Bush pointed to a passage in the Christian Bible which said that “only Christians had a place in heaven.”

Barbara disagreed, saying, “Surely, God will accept others,” but Bush said, “Mom, here’s what the New Testament says.” So Barbara called Billy Graham, and, said Bush, “Billy said, ‘From a personal perspective, I agree with what George is saying, the New Testament has been my guide. But I want to caution you both. Don’t play God. Who are you two to be God?’ ”

While to some the story may indicate someone grappling with how to reconcile one’s religious faith with the world around him (and Bush himself said, in the Houston Post article, that the lesson he learned was “listen to the New Testament, but don’t be harshly judgmental”), others found the statement troubling. A fund-raising letter for Garry Mauro, Bush’s Democratic opponent in the 1998 gubernatorial election, was circulated this fall which mentioned “George W. Bush’s views about the chances of Jewish people in the hereafter” - signed by National Jewish Democratic Council chairman Monte Friedkin, former Texas governor Ann Richards and Texas businessman Bernard Rapoport.

The issue once again appeared on the radar screen when Bush announced at the November Republican Governors Association meeting that he would be making a National Jewish Coalition-sponsored trip to Israel. When asked by the same Texas reporter who initially relayed his view on heaven what he was going to say to Israeli Jews, Bush, obviously joking, said the first thing he would tell them is that they were all “going to hell.”

Anti-Defamation League national president Abraham Foxman asked Bush, in a letter, to clarify his remarks, and Bush responded last week.

“I am troubled that some people were hurt by my remarks,” he wrote. “I never intended to make judgments about the faith of others.”

Bush continued: “Judgments about heaven do not belong in the realm of politics or this world; they belong to a Higher Authority. In discussing my own personal faith as a Christian, I in no way meant to imply any disrespect or to denigrate any other religion. During my four years as governor, I have set a positive tone that indicates my respect for individuals from all faiths, all backgrounds and all walks of life.”

Foxman, in a statement, declared that the matter is “now behind us.” He said the ADL welcomes “the governor’s sensitivity and demonstration of respect for religions other than his own and his commitment to tolerance, diversity and the principles of religious freedom.”

But are a politician’s religious views an issue for discussion? And were Bush’s views unusual? Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein, founder and president of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, said that the theology of Evangelical Christians has an “exclusivist” nature to it - believing in the “centrality of Jesus” in order to obtain salvation - which runs counter to many other religions, and even other denominations of Christianity. For example, Eckstein notes that in Judaism, one can be considered a good person without being Jewish by observing the Noahide laws outlined in Genesis.

But, Eckstein said, there is a difference between “theological intolerance” - the fundamental belief of Evangelicals that they have the ultimate truth - and “practical intolerance” - for instance, denying Jews the right to pray.

“It shouldn’t come to the point that everyone who believes they have the ultimate truth is a bogeyman. I don’t believe Billy Graham is an intolerant person,” Eckstein said, even though Graham, while telling Bush not to play God, did not disagree with the passage Bush read about heaven. Eckstein emphasized that the important issue is whether that theology is carried into society, and whether a politician draws up public policy based on that belief. In the case of Bush, Eckstein said that “it is legitimate to ask” for a clarification of his views, and “it sounds like he explained satisfactorily.”

Rev. Dr. Clark Lobenstine, executive director of the InterFaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington, said that he and those he works with wrestle with such issues all the time. “Part of the challenge of interreligious dialogue is that because we come as people of faith, it’s hard to imagine how everyone doesn’t want to reflect our faith. But we also know people of other faiths whose experience of God is very evident,” he said.

Lobenstine said he supports Bush’s letter clarifying his earlier comments and “encourages his respect for our diversity.”

The issue is unlikely to have any effect on future political plans for Bush, although Stephen Silberfarb, deputy executive director and general counsel for the National Jewish Democratic Council, did raise some questions. Silberfarb said the most important test is whether a politician’s religious beliefs have an effect on his policies, which so far, Silberfarb said, hasn’t been an issue. But to win the Republican nomination for president, Silberfarb stated that Bush would have to court the Christian Coalition, whose “power is considerable.”

“It remains to be seen whether he will be able to stand by that letter in the future,” Silberfarb said.

Matt Brooks, executive director of the National Jewish Coalition, said the book on this matter should be closed. "Bush has taken some time to learn and reflect. Foxman's letter and Bush's letter speak for themselves."

-- (Dumbya a Nazi @ in. disguise), April 22, 2001.

“We have nothing left to lose but there are a lot of things we're missing.”

Responsibility, Honesty, Morals, Steady Paycheck, Friends, A Mate, and the list goes on. BTW, should we be looking for CNN to cover your ‘Revolution’? Or will it take place in a Greyhound Bus Station Men’s Room?

Peace, Love, Off The Pigs, and all that shit.

-- Dumb (fuck@liberal.loser), April 22, 2001.