Q: (L) You mean the meter beside us? Turn it around so we can see it. (T) What is the bottom of the range? (AB) .1, .2 is the ambient. It's been hitting peaks of 5 at times before I sat down. That's micro-gausses. (J) What light waves are you referring to?

A: Near window.

Q: A space/time window? [There was no physical window in the room.]

A: Yes.

Q: (L) I think that this is in response to your question about DNA. We are supposed to notice that the meter is measuring some sort of energy and that this represents lightwaves near the "window" or conduit that is established by the channelling, and that this is one of the things that can change DNA. I don't think that eating or drinking one way or another can make a difference, it is what is inside - which, in a sense CAN change what you eat or drink, but it is a change that comes from a different direction than a change that is done deliberately in order to alter DNA. They have said that light waves alter DNA. (AB) What specific light frequency?

A: 6 pt 5

Q: (AB) Angstroms?

A: Yes.

Q: (AB) That's actually the frequency of a medium red neon laser. A laser is a monochromic frequency. It's like one of those laser pointers. It puts out only one color, one exact frequency. 6.5 would be mid-orange?

A: Yes.

Q: (Question from audience) What are certain people in our government and our military gaining by being more conspiring than lucid?

A: Open.

Q: (T) Many things. Is there one thing in particular that they gain from this?

A: As we know, answer is dangerous.

Q: (T) We've gotten several answers like that when we touch on sensitive questions.

At this point, the tape ended, and we ended the "demonstration session" that was supposed to have been "predestined." Was it? What were the ramifications aside from the fact that the small, local MUFON group had the largest attendance ever in its existence?

As it turned out, there were interesting developments shortly thereafter.

Two months following this session, we attended another meeting of the local MUFON group where a physicist, Prof. Ruggero Santilli, was scheduled to speak. At that same meeting were many of the people who had attended our "demonstration," and some of them gathered around during the break to ask us further questions about the experiment in channelling. Prof. Santilli joined them, was given a brief synopsis of the situation, and was intrigued enough to ask to attend a session. As it happened, we were planning one that very evening, so after the meeting, we all drove back to the house with Prof. Santilli and his wife following, and settled down to see what would happen. The session is posted elsewhere on the site, but to save loading time, I will paste it in here:

Note: Contrary to what Chris Hillman states on his web page Refutations of Some Incorrect/Erroneous/Vacuous Claims about Cosmology and Relativity, Roger Santilli is in no way "affiliated with a mystical group called The Cassiopeians". R. Santilli attended just one session - the session below. The Santilli Session May 27, 1995

Freddie, Laura, Jan and Terry, Carla and Roger Santilli

Q: (T) We have some company this evening. Roger and Carla Santilli are with us. Roger has some questions to ask.

A: Hello, Roger.

Q: (RS) Hello. I want to know whether we can have any clues on the propulsion systems of UFOs?

A: Sure!

Q: (RS) What's the mechanism of the propulsion?

A: This is difficult to answer when posed in such a manner, as we are talking about multiple realities, density levels and various modes as well!!

Q: (RS) Is the gravity experienced by an anti-particle in the field of matter attractive or repulsive?

A: Repulsive when thought of in the way that is parallel to your studies, but, as we alluded to in the previous answer, there are more realms involved besides the one with which you are most familiar.

Q: (RS) The next question is: particles move, matter moves, in our direction of time, do anti-particles, anti-matter, flow backward in time?

A: Think of it as merely one seventh of the equation, Roger!

Q: (L) Can we get an answer on whether this is the case strictly on the third level of density?

A: Backward.

Q: (RS) Yes! I am interested in the propulsion systems of UFOs, the only way that I can perceive travelling the long distances involved in interstellar space is to have what is called a "space/time" machine. We cannot move the enormous distances unless you can fold, somehow, time and space. You cannot fold space unless you join it and fold time. You cannot have interstellar travel unless you have a space/time machine. But, a space/time machine means to also have the ability to move forward and backward in time, to manipulate time.

(L) Yes, you would have to cross distances and simultaneously move backward through time so that you would end up arriving wherever you are going essentially at the same moment that you left.

(RS) That is why I asked whether we can use anti-matter as a propulsion, because it would be repulsive in the right direction. The second question whether, when we use anti- matter, we would move backward in time. Because, some of those objects, you see them moving, and they can be moving in space but not in time, or they could be moving in time but not in space. If you see a UFO, it does not mean that it is in our time. It could be in a completely different time.

(L) And, they disappear sometimes right before the eyes of the observer, and the question is: where do they go?

(RS) They could be standing still in space, but moving time. Or moving backwards.

(L) And, there are a lot of abductions reported where there is seemingly no time lost at all. They come in, haul the victim out, do whatever they do, and then they slide them back in a fraction of a second away, if not at the identical second they took the victim out!

(RS) Yes! This article I presented is exactly about this point! If, indeed, anti-particles have lift, then necessarily they have to go backward in time. Then they manipulate this: you can have an abduction any length of time inside the craft, but in our time, in our level three, it is zero time!

(L) Yes, exactly! And not only that, there is the phenomenon of the craft that looks small from the outside, but inside is huge!

(RS) That is all tied up in it! This is very exciting. I am learning the language. In our third level, the motion in space and time occurs via the change of the unit of time and space, therefore, can we change the unit?

A: Yes, this is precisely what we mean when we speak of "transiting from 4th to 3rd."

Q: (RS) So, when they travel from 4th to 3rd, they change the units. That is precisely what is in the article in the journal! [Holds up book.] This is published in the Ukraine, [turns to page and displays diagrams and equations] this is the experiment to test anti-gravity. There is a two mile long tunnel which is a vacuum inside. They suck the air out. The first measure is to shoot photons to identify, at the end of the two mile tunnel, the no gravity point. The second measure is to shoot a neutron, and we know that a neutron is attractive. So, after two miles, the energy is very, very low. So, there is no gravitational effect when the neutron hits the point. Then, the third step is to shoot an anti-neutron at the same time and see what happens. This experiment will resolve this issue that this board has answered very scientifically. We call it the gravity of anti-particles because we don't know. It can be down... Einstein predicts this as attractive as a neutron, anti-matter and matter have the same gravitational attraction. That's what Einstein says. But, when Einstein's theory was proposed, in 1915, anti-matter wasn't discovered until 50 years later. If now, theoretically, the only way a particle, in our theory, can go up, can have lift, is if time is reversed. There is no other possibility. So, if this experiment is correct, then the space/time machine is absolutely a consequence and can be tested in a laboratory. You can have a particle moving backward and forward in time. [Displays new diagram.] This is the other experiment which is, in this case, is done by putting a particle which is neutral and subjecting it to... since we don't have a bunch of anti-matter - ideally we would have a pellet of matter and replace it with anti-matter - we don't have a pellet of anti-matter, at this point, there are ways to do it though and it can be measured as to which way it moves, up or down. Now, the question of the units, it is very important, a fundamental question, because, say, you are outside a UFO, and you see the UFO as big as a car, say, and people go inside and report this enormous interior. There is no other way to do this than by changing the unit. What is for us one inch, that unit is completely different inside. For us the unit is the same along the three directions. Now, if you are inside, they can have different units in different directions. This means that if you are outside a cube, and you go inside, the shape, not only the dimensions but the shape even, can be different.

(RS) At the third level, is it true that the value of the dimension is changed by the available energy, or the energy is used to change the value of the units?

A: This concept crosses the density barrier, not limited to level three.

Q: (RS) Goes up to level four. That's the means of propulsion of the UFO.

A: Reason for exponential awareness "explosion" is approach of wave. Now, concentrate on visualization, answers are located there... After a period of contemplation, Roger to "hit upon" breakthrough question to solve puzzle currently occupying "centerstage" of his psyche, with only one piece missing currently.

Q: (RS) I notice that if the question is not properly phrased...

(L) You don't get your answer! Be specific.

A: Careful not to confuse with too much data that is not connected in the same concept arena, as visitor is concerned primarily with one direction; in order to familiarize let data be absorbed on schedule comfortable to researcher! Like trying to learn mathematics in broken dosages!

Q: (RS) Two short questions and then I will stop...

A: Ask as many as you desire!

Q: (RS) In our level three, does the use of anti-matter change the sign of the unit? Does this imply the reversal of the sign of the unit of space and time?

A: Yes, but problem has always been for level three entities, that the "other" side is uncharted, therefore experimentation is not recommended, unless with assistance from level four through six STO.

Q: (RS) That is an incredible answer because this is traveling in time. First they said that by using energy you can change the numerical value of the units, and from this (incomprehensible) you can make a (incomprehensible) show. Now the question: how you can go backward in time; by changing the sign of the unit: plus one second and we move forward, if that unit is changed to minus one second, we move backward. So the question, whether by using anti-matter we can move backward. But their answer was saying... precisely, that we are moving from level three to level four.

In Greece, at this time, at the University of Santia (?), the nuclear physics laboratory at the University, there is a potentially fundamental experiment going on based on my studies to search for fundamentally new source of energy by bombarding zinc 70 or molybdenum 100 via Gamma with 1.294 MeV energy. Will the experiment be successful...

A: All of the experiments you speak of share one thing in common: They all "touch the borderline" from the perspective of the third density side.

Q: (RS) Will you help us? (Carla) Yes, let's be practical! [Laughter]

A: It is possible to cross over into fourth density from third, using third density technology. In fact, this has already been accomplished by various individuals and groups on a more or less accidental basis, the problem is "what does one do when one reaches fourth density reality with only third density training and experience?"

Q: (L) Could you, if we spent the time, help us with this training and technology?

A: Yes, but what do you intend to use it for? This is not like going to DisneyWorld for a day, you know! What is your knowledge quotient regarding following: electromagnetism, Einstein's "unified field theory." And did he ever complete said theory, or was it completed under the supervision of consortium, and suppressed. And if so, what are the ramifications!!! Also, Roger, are you capable of "filling in the blanks," we think so!

Q: (RS) From the third level there cannot be a unification of electromagnetism and gravitation because they are identical. There is an identity between electromagnetism and gravitation. So, there is no need of the unification because they are identical. Is this view correct?

A: Yes. What about fourth level?

Q: (RS) To my understanding to the third level, this is where the possibility to go up a level comes in. If gravitation and electromagnetism are identical, then anti-gravity exists. The origin of anti-gravity is not unification. Einstein was wrong, but the identification that they are the same implies the existence of anti-gravity.

A: Wrong when searching on level three density exclusively, but this is where the Consortium comes in, i.e. "Can of Worms."

Q: (T) It is considered known to the general public that Einstein did not complete his Unified Field Theory, but that may be a falsehood. Part of the disinformation campaign.

(RS) From what we know, Einstein failed to achieve the Unified Field Theory because the assumptions were not realizable.

(RS) Can I ask a question? The origin of the mass of an elementary particle is primarily electromagnetic, therefore, the gravitational field of elementary particle must be primarily of electromagnetic nature. That's why the view at level three is, outside mass, the gravitation and electromagnetism are identical. This is our belief at this time, supported by experimental evidence. Why is this wrong? I need an explanation.

A: Not wrong at level three, wrong to limit to 3rd level.

Q: (RS) Is it true that the universe has equal amounts of matter and anti-matter as seen from level three?

A: Yes, all others as well.

Q: (RS) Then it is true that the total time in the universe is null?

A: Yes.

Q: (RS) This is incredible!

A: But, Roger less pressure! [Roger lightens up] ...thank you. Now, remember, most important concept is balance. How is balance achieved?

Q RS) Matter and anti-matter. So, if matter is flowing in this direction of time, anti-matter is flowing the other way. They balance each other.

(J) This is my question of the total time of the universe which is zero. If we flow this way, maybe others in another galaxy are flowing another way. The sum is zero.

A: Not galaxy, dimension.

-- SAR01 (rauch01@yahoo.com), April 20, 2001