This thread is presented as Carlos might have presented a thread on the Poole forum when he felt he needed to "stir the pot."

I've seen a lot of comments about race-mixing here, so I'll start with that one. WHAT exactly, is the problem with that one? I have a brother who told me something that the Bible stated about it, but if one isn't a Christian, WHAT exactly is the problem? Am *I* to live my life by a Christian rule-book even if I don't share their belief system? If *I* find a mate outside of my race that MY parents accept as a loving, kind, honorable, law-abiding person, am *I* wrong because someone else sees the relationship as race-mixing, and THEY don't like it?

What's the deal with the "liberal" bashing? Where do you get these definitions that define us all as desiring government to pay our way? I don't know ONE liberal who has accepted anything from the government. I know self-proclaimed "conservatives" who have, and I've ALSO seen them turn around and claim that "other people" are sucking from the teat of government.

Is the most important thing in your life to just bash others? Do you not love, live, work, etc. with people different from you? What do you gain from this hatred? If you're Christian, was this what Jesus had in mind?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 18, 2001

Answers

I'm a Christian. I have no problem with a person marrying whomever it is they love.

This message group became much more political and shrill due to the November election. It would be nice to see more civility here again.

-- Break the (cycle@of.insults), April 18, 2001.

Break:

I probably wouldn't have even brought this up had I not visited a local store today where the clerks are mainly African in heritage. I bid Felicia a good morning, much like I've done in the past three years, and she said, "How was your Easter?" I said, "Actually, I'm not Christian." She laughed nervously, much like SO's sister-in-law did when she spent New Year's Eve at the first apartment we had here in Texas [the one with the roaches.] Her nervous laugh came when I yelled to someone not to turn out the light in the kitchen, as I had food lined up on the counter. It was like a "You're not supposed to mention this" laugh.

Felicia went on and said, "So you're Moslem?" I said, "No, I'm not much of anything...just another human on this planet." She did the nervous laugh thing again. Then she said, "I would never have thought this about you had you not said this." I THOUGHT, "Well, that's probably because the Christians and Moslems who come into this place aren't as nice to you as I've been all these years."

I'd like to see everyone get back into a tolerance level, myself. It sure as hell makes posting more fun.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 18, 2001.

Hey Anita!

I have zero problem with "race mixing". I really have zero problem with most consenting behavior between adults, I don't like being told how to live my life, and so I do not try to bend others to live as I think they should. I am not perfect, I sometimes fail my ideals and poke at others who do not share my beliefs, but I do try to live and let live.

The problem with "liberals" is that their idea of government, for the most part, is a large and powerful government that tries to solve social ills with my money, and in the process waste untold amounts of money. Liberals wish to socially engineer public behavior to reflect their idea of utopia.

Conservatives, OTOH, wish to socially engineer private behavior to their liking. They want you to be Christian, they want you to hate porn and homosexuality, and they think tobbacco is OK but pot is from the devil. Conservatives want to make me live in their idea of utopia too!

No wonder I hate everybody! They all want to tell me how to live, and how to spend my money!

Fuckers!

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), April 18, 2001.

While our host is colorful, he does make excellent points. While I am not an expert in theology, I do not believe there are any biblical references prohibiting inter-racial marriages. There has been a stretch interpreting a phrase about the 'sons of Ham,' but I am not aware of any mainstream theologian who supports this. My knowledge of the Koran and other holy texts is more limited so I shall defer to others.

I share the view of our host, the behavior of other consenting adults is not my concern and I hope they extend me the same courtesy.

Herein lies the problem with liberalism, or more appropriately, democratic socialism. Every citizen has accepted the benefits of government. National defense, the interstate highways and the judicial system come immediately to mind. The disagreement with liberals is about the appropriate role of government in a civil society, i.e. just how much benefit can we tolerate.

Leftists see government as the appropriate tool for solving many social problems. To finance this, leftists expropriate money from the citizens and businesses. Conservatives offer only a small improvement. While they dislike taxation, they still want government to legislate moral issues, a patently bad idea.

Our host dislikes bad ideas, but really resents paying for them. The liberals have no shortage of bad ideas and even more fuzzy thoughts. Another annoyance is the inconistencies of the modern American leftist. Freedom of speech is acceptable insofar as this speech is "politically correct." Equality is acceptable, as long as government gives preference to women and minorities. Liberalism has become a grand parade of victims, each with a grievance more compelling than the last.

This is not meant as an attack on you personally, Anita, nor should you take it as such. Perhaps we can refer back to the example of your daughter and her ad hoc musical ensemble. In principle I support your daughter's right to musical expression. In practice, I prefer neighbors who are rarely seen and seldom heard. I have no quarrel with leftists as long as they impose regulations elsewhere and on someone else's peseta. The unfortunate fact is that my daily life is peppered with the legislative result of countless "good intentions." The less even-tempered among us occasionally allow this frustration to boil over into personal attacks.

If you just want to be left alone, Anita, congratulations. You have begun the move from liberal to libertarian.

-- Jose Ortega y Gasset (j_ortega_y_gasset@hotmail.com), April 18, 2001.

Unk, I'm still shaken by your photo on another thread, where you admitted to being the grossly overweight person in the bikini. I have to insist that you lose weight. I'm thinking of your own well-being, here. I haven't been able to eat lunch today, either, but never mind me.

Anita - if it helps, next time, rememeber that Easter was originally a Roman/Greek, and then pagan holiday, until the Christian sect co- opted it. Keep in mind that they're very creative with "official" religeous calendars!

BTW, happy (post) Easter!

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), April 18, 2001.

I think Unk pretty well covered the bases with with my feelings on this one,thanks Unk,as Iv'e got an errand to run.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), April 18, 2001.

Anita,

As an intellectual I do not condone the use of vulgarity in normal discourse day to day. I think that intelligent people can express themselves without "dropping" a level or two. I also agree with Unk as far as the liberal faction of our society using everyones money to fix social ills. I do like the idea of helping someone in need but someone who truly needs help so I lump that idea into a liberal point of view as opposed to a conservative one as conservatives in general do not want to help anyone. As far as race goes, on a forum like this we are all the same. All we know about each other is the words we through down here. That said, I have lurked on this forum for a while and noticed the right wing conservative faction constantly attacking liberal, chasing after ex President Clinton's private parts and invariably being arrogant about Bush being President. I decided that somone needed to put those punks in their place so here I am fucking the repugs as hard as I can. I don't want to discuss issues with them as those issues are mute when there is an illegitimate illiterate boy parading as the president. I'm not gonna give the fucking repugs a break!

-- Tony Baloney (Fuck the@repugs.com), April 18, 2001.

besides, I sincerely believe that the conservatives are the ones who have defined what liberalism is. They take all of the ideas that they don't like and say, "thats what liberalism is". My definition of liberal is a person who thinks for themselves and doesn't need do gooder bullshit right winger morons telling them how to think, talk, live, act etc... Like Unk said, "Fuckers!"

-- Tony Baloney (Fuck the@repugs.com), April 18, 2001.

"As an intellectual"?

As compared to say, the neighbor's pet hamster? ROTFLMAO

-- Tiny (meat@tiny.mind), April 18, 2001.

Tiny I know your not the brightest crayon in the box so I will keep this really simple for the sake of your peanut sized brain. I will turn you into the SPCA if you do not pull my neighbors hamster out of your ass immediately! Fucking moron...

-- Tony Baloney (Take that you@repug.com), April 18, 2001.

Perhaps, Senor Baloney, you can explain to us the basic tenets of liberal political philosophy as you understand them?

-- Jose Ortega y Gasset (j_ortega_y_gasset@hotmail.com), April 18, 2001.

So let me get this straight, Mr. Baloney...

Because of the two or three one-dimensional ultra-right caricatures that post here, you've decided to become a one-dimensional ultra-left caricature. Do I got that right?

Way to reduce yourself, buddy.

Anita, why even bother with people who seriously discuss "race- mixing"? They're unworthy of your time.

-- RC (randyxpher@aol.com), April 18, 2001.

AHHH YES! I can see where this thread is going and it promises to be a laugh filled ride.

-- Tiny (Baloney@is.toast), April 18, 2001.

RC quit smoking pot before you post. I know the name Tony Baloney sounds kind of cartoonish so I am going to change my name so that it is more cartoonish (look, I just left all the fucking brainless moron repugs sitting on the rug scratching their asses [brains]). The name will change but the message is still the same! Fuck you repugs.

-- Pinky (Fuck the@repugs.com), April 18, 2001.

NARF!

-- Pinky (Fuck the@repugs.com), April 18, 2001.

Because her SO is black.

If I understood you right, your original question was, "What is the problem with race-mixing." I will try to give it to you in a nutshell and address the questions you asked in the other thread regarding large people.

American society is constructed with many unseen, unspoken levels. The quest for power and security is among the most powerful. For many blacks (not all) marrying a white person is the route to a more satisfying and comfortable life - whites make more money, have more opportunities, are more educated...you know the drill. In our society, a white man who cohabitates with a black woman is considered liberated in some small circles. On the other hand, a white woman who cohabitates with a black man is considered white trash. If you simply scroll down to the very last sentence of the porn thread (or maybe next to last) you will find black & white sex is one of the behaviors that is not acceptable among "polite" adults. The day you moved in with your SO, you isolated yourself from a certain percentage of the public. Why is that? I thought about you and this question as I walked around the mall today. When I spotted a nice looking black man I asked myself, "Could I ever marry someone like him?" My answer, for me, was "no". He was too different, too foreign. His facial features were different, his hair was different and his speech was thick. My reasoning was based on the superficial; just as your reasoning that large people are sometimes considered undesirable. You argued that the fat lady should expect ridicule because she posed for the photo. I argue that you should expect ridicule for living with a black man. They are both outside societal norms. As you stated earlier, "ridicule received is brought on by the deed."

-- Carmen Spaglia (ca@sp.not), April 18, 2001.

According to the Bible, Moses married an Ethiopian woman. This was definite race-mixing. When his sister gossiped and complained about it, God struck her with leprosy till she repented. Seems like God didn't have a problem with race-mixing.

-- Pammy (pamela_sue57@hotmail.com), April 18, 2001.

Anita, Why did you feel it necessary to tell Felicia that you were not Christian when she asked whether you enjoyed Easter ? Did she really mean Easter as a spiritual time as your reply indicated or was she asking whether you enjoyed a national holiday ?

-- Chris (enquiries@griffenmill.com), April 18, 2001.

I see your point, RC, but I have some time and I DO wonder where these folks come up with this stuff.

Jose, the young man that had the warrant on his head at the house where my daughter lives DID vote Libertarian. *I* looked at the Libertarian platform and it wasn't for me [not like there WAS a platform with which I agreed, but I disagreed with that one more than the Democratic platform, so I voted for the Gore guy for president. The Republican Party platform was MUCH too intrusive for my tastes.] I enjoy my "Independent" status so I can switch back and forth based on platforms in place and time.

Tony Baloney is doing a Republican back-lash thing here, and I don't agree with that and don't wish to engage in that, and I hope this thread doesn't turn into a Tony Baloney hate-fest. I can tell you what *I* see in liberalism, Jose. I've been a liberal all my life, so I SHOULD have this philosophy down pat.

I don't want to see children suffer, nor do I want to see the elderly suffer. I don't think that ANYONE should be on welfare or disability when they can work, and that includes some posters here. I won't mention names, but some folks are drawing disability because they can get more money doing that than they can taking a Data Entry job. What, exactly, is the difference between this and the welfare mother who can draw more money staying home than taking the minimum-wage job? The BIG difference is that the "disabled" can obtain Medicare, while the welfare mother cannot. TWO rip-offs of the system in one, IMO.

I want a "sound" environment, but I'm willing to compromise where the costs are prohibitive. I don't want to see the U.S. go to war over semantics, and I sure as hell don't want to see another useless war like Vietnam. I want my medical records available to me and unavailable to anyone else. I want people to be able to make decisions about their families without government interference, including how many children they have, how they educate them, and how they raise them. I want it to be a crime to burn a cross on the lawn of a black or Jewish family even though I'm neither black nor Jewish. Give me some feedback here. I'm running short on my "liberal" platform.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 18, 2001.

"...Tony Baloney is doing a Republican back-lash thing here, and I don't agree with that and don't wish to engage in that, and I hope this thread doesn't turn into a Tony Baloney hate-fest..."

Anita, I did not want to engage in it either but what better way to keep the fact alive that Bush stole the election? I would do the same thing if Gore had stolen the election. The bottom line is these repug pukes want to piss all over liberals (they want to kill them too) and liberals (in general) are just too tolerant to fight back at that level. The repugs think they have gotten away with it, like it will legitimize things if they act like it is legitimate. For me its like waiting in line for hours for something and then having some asshole brazenly cut in line. Most people don't want to cause a scene and will let it go. I'm not letting it go. By the way, you have a very decent belief system. Don't worry about the TB backlash as I am now,

-- Pinky (Fuck the@repugs.com), April 18, 2001.

Chris: I dunno. It just popped out of my mouth.

Carmen: I've been living with a black guy since 1988 and society hasn't popped us in the mouth YET. My dad died after we moved in together, but HE never had a problem with it. His MOM died after that, but SHE never had a problem with it. [Oddly enough on that one, she warned him that he may not want to get involved with a woman with three young children. She had the misconception that a woman with children was looking for the "earning potention" he had, but he and I knew better than that.] We're left with MY mom and HIS dad and our joint kids. None of them think twice about our racial differences. None of their friends do either. Our neighbors don't. Most importantly, WE don't, and neither of us speak with "thick tongues" or whatever it was you said. We DO, however, notice weight gains or losses in each other. We've known each other since 1972, so we've watched each other change throughout the years.

*I* was super-skinny in 1972. HE was normal. He was thinner in 1998 when we started living together, but he enjoys weight-lifting, the results of which don't turn me on much. I'd point out to him when he was getting what I considered "too bulky", and he'd slow down his exercise routine. He'd point out to me that I was getting a "little pot" and I'd STEP UP my exercise routine.

Now that we're both older, we must live with the limitations of exercise. Once a man's knees start to give out, he can't maintain that cute butt we once loved. Once a woman goes on Hormone Replacement Therapy, I'm not sure she'll ever again be skinny. We can still be within a normal range, however.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 18, 2001.

"I don't want to see children suffer, nor do I want to see the elderly suffer."

Implying that being conservative means you *want* to see these things? No, I don't think you meant it that way, but that's what happens when we try to reduce things to Baloney-level.

"What, exactly, is the difference between this and the welfare mother who can draw more money staying home than taking the minimum-wage job?"

Only that the welfare mother can draw *even more* money by becoming a mother again. Not the discussion I wanted to get into here, but there ya go.

"I want it to be a crime to burn a cross on the lawn of a black or Jewish family even though I'm neither black nor Jewish."

Isn't it already a crime? Trespassing... destruction of property... something. I'm not rabidly against hate crime laws, but I haven't really been convinced of the *need * for them yet.

Other than those quibbles, Anita, I agree with everything you said.

And a quote from an earlier post:

"This message group became much more political and shrill due to the November election. It would be nice to see more civility here again.

-- Break the (cycle@of.insults), April 18, 2001."

Couldn't agree more with the observation about the board (I said as much on Poole's board a couple of weeks ago). Not that a care about "civility" that much, but the shrillness has certainly lowered the level of discourse around here, right Pinky?

-- RC (randyxpher@aol.com), April 18, 2001.

Anita, I only asked 'cos being a protestant in Catholic Ireland makes me tippy toe round those kind of curved questions !

You are not serious about the weight gain on HRT..are you ??? And there's me thinking it would be grand idea.

-- Chris (enquiries@griffenmill.com), April 18, 2001.

Either you missed my points, shuffled right by them (no offense intended there) or you live in denial.

It must be nice to think you live in a perfect world where you are not discriminated against. I believe you when you say it doesn't bother your family but I must warn you that people outside your circle do talk about you. Most black women don't like you because they feel white women are taking away decent black men. Many white men will be nice to your face, but say snide remarks behind your back.

Somehow I just know I'm wasting my time here. You are wrong about public perception and you are in such denial about life you think that a liberal system will help reduce the suffering of children and old people. It won't, it will only increase it...but that argument must be left for tomorrow. I only have time to say I appreciate your candor if not your reasoning.

-- Carmen Spaglia (ca@sp.not), April 18, 2001.

Chris: I imagine you do quite a bit of tip-toeing around. The HRT put 20 pounds on ME, but I've heard of women who never stopped gaining. I was such a skinny butt that I needed 10 of those 20, at least. I've dropped 5 pounds of late on the "eat nothing" diet.

RC: It's certainly not a black/white thing. It's been my understanding that welfare mothers are NOT rewarded for new births these days. That's an old stereotype, kindof like the whole welfare thing. Um...BTW...that should have been potential where I typed potention. I'm getting sloppy. Can you think of something I missed?

Pinky & Tony: The election itself surely didn't pass muster, IMO. I discuss this, as well as 2002 and 2004 on other fora and write to Congress with my thoughts. I just don't want this thread to turn into a "You ditto-monkeys" free-for-all. Is that okay with you?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 18, 2001.

Carmen:

Thanks for your opinions. I really DON'T care what folks who don't know us think. I'm quite aware of what black women once thought. We visited a black club once and I went to the restroom and I feared for my life. Today isn't like yesterday. Our neighbors REALLY like us. I have white guys come and mow the lawn when they know SO is out-of- town. I don't think they do that because they hate us. SO's daughter's friends are of the 30-something crowd now and they stop by to see me. They're all black women. I don't think they do that because they hate me.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 18, 2001.

Good job Anita. Much more productive stirer than me.

Ever since Spencer Tracy's brilliantly written soliloquy in Guess Who's Coming To Dinner brought mixed race marriages out of the closet none of us do double takes anymore. They're growing and God bless 'em. Such marriages produce many strong families my favorite being friends of mine.

Little Nikko got his film start being hung at the top of the stairs in a recent release. Good kid. Top parents. Life at its best.

RC isn't wrong it's just that the people he's talking about don't count.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), April 18, 2001.

Oops! Replace "RC" with "Carmen".

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), April 18, 2001.

Since when did Maria start posting under the handle Carmen?

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), April 18, 2001.

Anita, the effects of "race mixing" may be felt more by the children produced by it than by the adults engaging in it. Rather than being a member of both cultures, many of the children grow up feeling like they belong to neither culture.

-- helen (aaa@b.b), April 18, 2001.

Anita, you are uncomfortable with who you chose as a soul-mate. If race doesn't matter to you or what other people think, why did you post this thread? It should be a mute point with you as it is with me.

-- another perspective (anotherperspective@dgara.dgara), April 18, 2001.

Its your thread.

-- Pinky (This is@different.com), April 19, 2001.

another: Did you mean moot or mute? *I*'m not at all uncomfortable with my choice of mate. I'm trying to understand why other people on this forum are.

Helen: I've heard that, but I haven't seen many cultural differences outside of an ethnic origin. SO's daughter lived with us for over a year and when SHE cooked, I said, "I don't think I could eat that." When *I* cooked [particularly if it was a Norwegian dish], she said, "I don't think I could eat that." MY daughter [who'd moved back in for a year or so at about the same time] was more inclined to eat Steph's cooking than mine. I DO warn SO when my family comes together to make Christmas cookies. He likes to eat them, but we play Norwegian music while we bake and that's not something he wants to get used to.

Cultural differences seem to be based more on economic class. My dad never made a lot of money, and my mom never worked. SO's dad never made a lot of money and his mom stayed home with her kids, as well. My ex-husband's dad was a dentist, and made a fair buck. I don't think his mom worked either. *I* worked most of the years while raising my kids, and SO's wife worked, as well. My parents and his parents could share dinner and talk for hours. The mom of my ex died before I met him, but I could see the discomfort between my parents and his dad and his step-mom.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 19, 2001.

Helen-

I've never felt caught between two cultures, though I find I feel stung a bit when people ask me insensitive questions like "What exactly are you?" and "What kind of a last name is that?" My brother and sister haven't expressed any of these sorts of feelings to me, but my sister did join an ethnic student union when she was an undergrad. My younger brother is adopted and totally caucasian. He went through a phase where he described himself as belonging to our dad's ethnic category when he was in high school. It was kind of funny at the time, though I think he may have felt uncomfortable about it. I've always wondered how it might feel to be an adopted person of color who's adoptive parents were caucasian.

Interestingly, my grandmother used the "your kids won't be welcome in either group" argument to try to dissaude my mother from marrying my father. I'm not saying you're making this argument out of racism, but I do believe my grandmother was. She's become very supportive of our family, and I had no idea that she was ever opposed to the marriage.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), April 19, 2001.

Whoops! I had no idea she was ever opposed to the marriage until I became an adult.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), April 19, 2001.

"until I became an adult"

When did that happen?

-- Still (a@monkey.boy), April 19, 2001.

"Oops! Replace "RC" with "Carmen"."

HEYYY!!!

-- RC (randyxpher@aol.com), April 19, 2001.

"How was your Easter?" I said, "Actually, I'm not Christian."

Why make Christmas cookies then?

-- Just (curious@bout.that), April 19, 2001.

my grandmother used the "your kids won't be welcome in either group" argument to try to dissaude my mother from marrying my father.

Is this the same grandma who starved half her kids to death so she could keep eating her normal amount, or the human one?

-- Grandma (Starved@the.ethical.one.first), April 19, 2001.

Why make Christmas cookies then?

Probably for the same reason folks are buried wearing glasses....tradition. In addition, most companies break for this holiday, as well as schools, so it's the one time a year when we can all get together in one place to listen to "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" in Norwegian. Maybe it's just me, but it just doesn't seem right to play that song in June. When the kids were little, we made the cookies for Jule Nisse [as a reward for the gifts brought.] When they studied French, we left shoes on the window ledges for Petite Papa Pierre [or something like that.]

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 19, 2001.

Interesting thread, Anita.

On the race and culture thing...

You know, relatively speaking I don't really notice cultures too much anymore. I mean, I know they're there, and there's some nice and interesting things they produce, but cultural groups just don't seem to hold any real importance to me compared to the smallest, yet by far most important minority ever -- the individual. My absolute passionate fascination with individuals is limitless. Anita, if I met your SO, I swear I'd look right through his color (which is about as important to me as the size of his earlobes) AND culture (although I'm not even sure what a "black culture" even is -- personally I think it's a myth) and focus on his character. But why would that even be hard to do ? It all seems so natural to me.

Oh yes...I really think the concept of race itself is a myth, borne of our need to classify.

On Libertarianism...oh, don't get me started; I really should get back to work right now. :) What Unk said for now, which was a short but very nice post. Maybe there was more good stuff on this thread, but I skimmed over a lot.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), April 19, 2001.

That was my maternal great-grandmother. Two of her youngest died because she was dirt poor, the rest of her children, including my gradmother, suffered rickets. My great-grandmother was so severly malnourished that her hair began to fall out. Unfortunately, as you and Cin fail to recognize, children starve to death much more readily than adults.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), April 19, 2001.

Eve: I was steeped in the ethnic Norwegian culture, but my parents were open to other cultures, as were their siblings. My dad's siblings pretty much married other Norwegians, but my mom's siblings married into other ethnic groups. The children of my dad's siblings went all over the place in their choice of mate. One cousin of mine married a Lebanese guy, and all three of her boys have a middle name of their father's FIRST name. HE'S Moslem, but my cousin is kindof like me in that she thinks any/all/no faith is good, as long as one behaves.

There weren't many black folks in Norway when my folks lived there, so they didn't know what to expect. They'd heard the rumors, but my dad worked with some black guys at the mill and many of them were hard workers. I don't think my mom had ever met a black person before I brought one home.

We lived in a "culturally rich" neighborhood and I went to school with kids of all races and cultures since I was four. My kids had the same experience, although my son didn't start school until he was six due to his birthday being in December. Race and culture weren't issues. We liked the people who were nice and didn't like the people who weren't. My kids did the same. We live in a "culturally rich" neighborhood now.

When we first moved to Texas, the kids brought friends home. Some of these kids had never been around a black person before. They'd say things like, "Your mom's boyfriend is black." My kid would say, "Yeah, I know." Then the kid would say, "But he's nice!" My kid would say, "Yeah, I know." They had obviously expected something [someone] different, and they didn't get it.

I don't think I'll be moving to the Libertarian platform any time soon. A lot of it SOUNDS nice [just like every other platform SOUNDS nice], but there are big gaps, IMO, speaking of which....

Randy: I'm not real gung-ho on the hate-crime laws either, but I don't think "trespassing" or whatever else it was you stated can be used unless signs were clearly posted, etc. There are just some situations where I feel the law enforcement folks are in a better position than I to make these determinations of what constitutes a hate crime and what fits into "normal" hate crimes. We dealt with this one a while back on another thread.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 19, 2001.

Especially if you eat your meal before feeding them.

-- Obviously (they@died.she.might.have.even.eaten.one), April 19, 2001.

Anita, Guess there's hope for a decent figure yet,then.

-- Chris (tiptoeing amongst the bluebells@griffenmill.com), April 19, 2001.

"But he's nice!"

LOL, 'Nita! An innocent child knows naturally what counts and sums up in three words what took me a hundred!

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), April 19, 2001.

Tarzan: It's your choice, of course, but I don't think you need to justify your maternal great grandmother to folks who don't understand that adults can live longer without food than infants. Children in Africa die every day from malnutrition. Their parents live, simply because their bodies are bigger and they can go without food much longer. End of story.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 19, 2001.

but I don't think "trespassing" or whatever else it was you stated can be used unless signs were clearly posted, etc.

Absolutely not. If one pounds a cross into somebody's lawn and burns it, one is trespassing--signs or no signs--plain and simple. Probably guilty of arson too. No signs necessary and no special "hate-crime" law necessary either.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), April 19, 2001.

LOL again! Because of an increase in typos showing up in my posts lately (note the passive voice -- they just "showed up" -- not that there was actually a person's mistake that caused 'em :)) , I actually took time to count the words I quoted the child said to make sure there really were three, like I'd said there were! (still crackin' up...)

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), April 19, 2001.

You see? I should have said RECOUNT instead of count! Sometimes ya just CAN'T win...

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), April 19, 2001.

Like I said, previously, Buddy, I'm not gung-ho on the "hate-crime" thing. The law enforcement folks have the rules on this and I trust them to determine the differences. If somebody burned a cross on MY lawn, I'd just go out the next day and remove the debris. Other folks may live in terror at what may happen next.

My memory kicked in. That was Petite Papa Noel with the shoes on the window ledges. BOTH Petite Papa Noel and Jule Nisse are elf-like figures in cultural lore that bring children gifts at Christmas-time.

Eve: You ARE getting funny. I'd be a rich woman if I had a dime for every typo I made. FIRST I said I moved in with SO in 1988. THEN I said 1998. I'm not even sure I could catch this stuff with a "preview" feature. Like Flint once said, "I know what I MEANT to say and when I reread it, *I* think it looks okay."

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 19, 2001.

Chris: When the time comes, you may want to do it for your BONES. There's no sense in clinging to a girly figure if your bones deteriorate through osteosporosis. The most noticeable increases coincide with the "womanly" parts of the body.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 19, 2001.

Being of mixed race isn't about cultural dietary preferences or economic class, Anita. Having a father with a socially prestigious position and a good income may have shielded Tarzan a bit. I'm not talking about differences in lifestyle -- my own lifestyle would be unimaginable to my great-grandmother. I'm talking about having the wrong face in the mirror. I'm talking about hearing people say derogatory things about your "other" race and wondering if they think that about yourself. It isn't funny that Tarzan's adopted brother went through a phase of trying to be his adoptive father's race. It's a sad, familiar feeling. I've watched children of several different types of racial mixing struggle with trying to figure out who they were supposed to be. Some had both biological parents. Some were bi-racial and adopted into yet a third race. Consigning this struggle to a catagory on the same level with food preferences is ...

-- helen (ohno@not.now), April 19, 2001.