Hi,

I am thinking of getting a IIIf and/or a IId. However I have a question. It is my understanding that the viewfinders of these earlier cameras did not have framelines.

So how does one use them with different lenses? I don't like external viewfinders.

Which focal length would match these viewfinders?

Thanks in advance for your help.

-- Mike Foster (mike567@acgecorp.com), April 11, 2001

Answers

Mike, I'm afraid that you're SOL. The viewfinder is designed to show 100% of the image covered by a 50mm lens at 10 feet. This is a design parameter specified by Oskar Barnack and is true for all the screw thread models from the II through the IIIF. The IIIg is slightly different and has projected framelines for 50 and 90mm lenses. Personally I love it, but an older Leica may not be your cup of tea.

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), April 12, 2001.

You can use any lens you like with the internal finder as long as it is a 50mm! My experience is that the screw mount camera are lovely jewels but do not make great users like the M cameras. I've been tempted to pick one up once or twice over the years, but I know it would mostly sit in my cabinet.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), April 12, 2001.

You can fairly well estimate the 90 frame from the 50 (imagine 1/4 in from all corners all around)but in fact an accessory viewfinder isn't that much of a hassle. The variable finders are large but the most convenient. In fact, I never used the built-in finder on my IIIa, the eye-relief was much less than the IIIf and I couldn't see it with my glasses on.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), April 12, 2001.

Mike,

I had one of these. Not much to add to the good advice/info already provided.

I would only add that the viewfinder port on the IIIf is really tiny, causing one to squint uncomfortably. It's not at all like the M body's viewfinder. Also, focussing is achieved via a separate viewing port, immediately next to the viewfinder port, and it is also really small. It takes some getting used to.

I used mine with a 5cm 3.5 Elmar and the viewfinder pretty much gave an accurate view. With a 3.5cm Summaron I used one of the Voightlander 35mm accessory viewfinders, which was much more pleasant than peering through the regular IIIf's viewfinder.

It's a nice camera, very well made and a real tactile pleasure. If you're into nostalgia and old cameras, it can be very rewarding. As a quick user, it can be frustrating at times.

Good luck, Sergio.

-- Sergio Ortega (s.ortega@worldnet.att.net), April 12, 2001.

I use my IIf a lot (probably more than any other camera), mainly with a 50/3.5 Elmar. Collapsed, it easily fits in my pocket. Even with the 50, I use the brightline accessory finder, which makes it very easy to compose with both eyes open. Once you become familiar with where the focussing tab is at different distances, you can get some very fast grab shots, without looking through the focus window.

-- John Fleetwood (johnfleetwood@hotmail.com), April 12, 2001.

Mike,

My view is a bit different than those already expressed:

I own an M6 TTL that I love. I also own a 3F that I find to be the ideal tool for street photography: it is compact and unobtrusive. I found that once I got past the loading problem,( I use a spent phone card to help me align the film properly) I enjoy using it. I recently acquired a used IMARECT that does what it's supposed to, mainly get rid of parallax, but I also find that this implement takes away the attributes that make the 3F so dear to me, its compactness. So I put up with the squinting and the double holes and it all works just fine. I have used the 3F with both 50mm and 35mm. With the latter, I get a bit more than I bargained for so I simply crop. I like to meter separately anyhow so that is not a problem for me. I just wish Leica could manufacture a camera the size of a 3F with all the features of the M6. I would spring for it in a minute.

J-D

-- Jean-David Borges (jdborges@home.com), April 12, 2001.

Thanks to all.

The reason I was interested in the IIIf was because of its size. I want a camera to shoot at night with Delta 3200 and a fast lens. I figured I could stick a Voigtlander 35/1.7 on it and it would be good for candid photography.

But if the finder is fixed at 50mm then I may still consider it and get the 50/1.5 Nokton. But that lens is much bigger.

So how hard is it to use? I mean the IIIf, that is. Can you change the shutter speeds easily? It is easy to load film? Any other advantages or disadvantages?

I will not consider an M6 because it is too big for this purpose and the Voigtlander Bessa bodies are the crappiest cameras I have ever used and make me sick...

In fact which camera would suit me best? What about a Leica I or II even?

Thanks y'all! G'day!

-- Mike Foster (mike567@acgecorp.com), April 13, 2001.

Mike, Screw thread Leicas don't have automatic transmissions, power steering or brakes, air conditioning, seat belts, or airbags. What I'm trying to say is that they can be a PAIN to use. For those of us who grew up with them the faults are minor compared to how wonderful the cameras feel in one's hands. You'll hate it; go buy something else.

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), April 13, 2001.

Bill,

How do you know I will hate it? For you information I drive a manual car not automatic and if I could I would NOT get power steering. I would rather feel more of the road. Nor would I get airbags and would like a six point seat belt instead....

For your information, I also shoot large format and surely anything compared to that is a piece of cake...

Mike

-- Mike Foster (mike567@acgecorp.com), April 13, 2001.

Hi Mike. This thread seems to be getting a little acrimonious, which is something I didn't intend. I'm not a certified expert on the STM Leicas, but have been using over fifty years. You indicate that you want to use it in very dark areas for candid shots; I have to tell you that the rangefinder is squinty and difficult to use under normal indoor conditions, much less at night. You ask if the shutter speeds are easily changed; no, this can only be done when the shutter is wound by lifting and rotating the shutter speed dial and can't be set between speeds. I can't imagine doing it in semi-darkness. As to loading, it is infamously difficult and slow; by comparison the infamously difficult M6 is virtually self-loading. It was first introduced when the Model T Ford was the standard, and like the Tin Lizzie must be loved in spite of being thoroughly superceeded. I would be pleased to answer any questions directed to my email address, and if you happen to be in the Sarasota, Florida area would be delighted to let you run some film through my II, IIIFST, or IIIG. Incidentally, in actual use it's not really all that much smaller than an M6. Regards, Bill

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), April 13, 2001.

Whatever you do, don't plan on using a 50/1.5 Nokton with a Leica Screw Mount camera unless you're willing to use an accessory 50mm viewfinder. The build-in viewfinder is unusable with a Nokton.

OTOH, the current 50mm f2 Summicron in screw mount is excellent on a IIIF, my currently most-used camera/lens combination.

-- Joe Buechler (jbuechler@toad.net), April 17, 2001.

On one of your e-mail, said you want to use this with Voigtlander's lens.

I have a IIIf with the 35mm 1.7. I can see part of the lens hood in the build in viewfinder (takes about 1/4 area of the viewfinder.)

You might want to get aux viewfinder for it. However, this will make it a bit bigger than you might want.

-- Pasvorn Boonmark (boonmark@acm.org), April 25, 2001.