Isn't there something we can do to hold churches accountable for the way they treat their preachers? And preachers who split churches? I am part of one new effort, led by Randy Frederick at the Kenmore Church of Christ in Akron, OH. He can be reached at kenmorechurch@aol.com.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2001

Answers

EXTREMELY WELL SAID!!!....on both posts Robin.

And....I will admit to being one of those preachers....who...in general....have always been treated well (usually better than I deserve).

I refuse to let a few bad apples spoil the joy of service.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2001

Probably not as long as CENI is observed.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2001

Check out the thread "Another One Bites The Dust". I can totally relate. I would love any info you could send me about Mr. Frederick's efforts. It is rather sad but I have found solice by serving outside "the Brotherhood". I have served in multiple "Christian" churches and found most rather disappointing. I found few good apples in leadership positions; the ones I did find were phenominal. However, for every one that is doing their job biblically - there are five that oppose. It is very difficult to leave the roots but I try to take the best of "the Brotherhood" and incororate it into ministry. I found a happy medium in a "Willow Creek style" Community Church - strong conservative scriptural foundation and a heart for the lost (MT. 28). I will not serve in another Christian Church/Church of Christ unless it is exceptional in these two areas...so I am settling in for a long, fruit-filled ministry cuz I don't see that happening anytime soon.

www.logantele.com/~morcomm/

I am blessed to be a part of God moving and working here in Kentucky!

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2001

Jason,

I am not a preacher (nor a 'preacher-killer)... just wanted to get that out of the way first.

I would like to know why you believe the Christian Church/Church of Christ's have this problem and other 'denominations' don't. Is it possible that you are taking a couple of bad experiences in the movement (these bad experiences exist in All churches) and making a general application....?

I personally think much of the 'contention' is because we (Restoration churches) are trying to stick to the Bible... and the Bible is pretty intolerant... especially of SIN.

Wasn't it "Willow Creek style" to have President Clinton in to speak... and give him a standing ovation? Not the style that I am going for....

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2001

C. Allen,

How exactly do churches "treat their preachers"?

I know of several preachers who I believe would admit to being treated quite well... but I don't think that is what you are talking about.... you seem to be implying that all churches treat their preachers badly, and thus need to be 'held accountable'.

How does a preacher "split churches"?

If he preaches the Word... and some don't like it... then they may leave... is that a problem? No... he is preaching the Word.

If he doesn't preach the Word... and some don't like it... they may leave (for a Bible-preaching church)... is that a problem? Not for the ones leaving... they are searching for the Word. Of course it is a problem that he isn't preaching the Word... and he needs to be shown his errant ways... if he repents of the wrongs -- Great! If not, then he needs to go... or those that want the Word need to go.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2001

"If he preaches the Word... and some don't like it... then they may leave... is that a problem? No... he is preaching the Word. "

The problem comes when the preacher DOES preach the Word faithfully, and that preaching "gets him in trouble" so-to-speak. If the people/leaders who don't like the Word being preached would leave, great! But many times those are the "charter members" and folks who have been around a long time, and want things to remain status quo. They do everything they can to make the ministers life one of misery. And if the elders do nothing about it (or if they are involved in the problem) then the minister ends up packing up and heading for another field to serve ... dragging his family along with him. It can be a sad situation.

Is this just a problem within "the brotherhood?" Of course not. Yet it might be a bit more open since we are so non-denominational ... at least in function, if not form. With no denominational HQ to call upon for help, the minister is left to the whims of the congregation/eldership.

Our family is now serving faithfully with a new church plant that is meeting in the fellowship hall of the local Church of the Brethren. That sprang out of my working with their preacher in setting up a Friday evening coffeehouse that has reached out to the community in ways we never imagined. Over 80 in attendance ... last coffeehouse we had over 130 ... mostly community folks (some college) and lots of unchurched and "seekers" (if that word is even used anymore). We have invited these folks to join us on Sunday mornings for a very relaxed, sit-around-the-tables type of worship service, with contemporary music (not just choruses, but truly contemporary to 2001 songs), a solid message from the Word, and great fellowship. Truly a non- denominational worship time. Folks getting dunked ... coming to know Jesus as Lord and Savior ... joining Bible studies ... and serving Him in a mighty way.

It can be done ... so keep the faith, keep preaching the Word faithfully, and God will bless your work!

Darrell H Combs

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2001

Brother Allen:

You have asked:

“Isn't there something we can do to hold churches accountable for the way they treat their preachers?”

Please take a few moments to think about the question that you are asking. Christ, our Lord is the only head the church, which is His body. (Col. 1:18;Eph. 1:22) and therefore is the only one with the authority to hold “churches” (Plural) in the universal sense “accountable” for anything, including how they “treat” their preachers. For it is He alone who is walking among the candlesticks. “The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks, which thou sawest, are the seven churches.” (Rev. 1:20). And then we see that Christ is walking in the mist of the candlesticks or churches. “Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;” Thus, as Christ was walking among the seven churches of Asia it is reasonable, given the fact that He is the head of all things to the church that Christ is walking among the churches and He will hold all of them to account for their deeds. Just as he both praised and warned the seven churches of Asia even so, through his inspired word he has issued the same praises and warnings to the churches in all places. No one but Christ has or ever will have authority over the church universal. Therefore he is the only one who will hold any “church” accountable for anything! And Christ does not hold “churches”, as a group, accountable but he will hold Christian individuals within the church accountable for their sins at his appearing and the judgement. (Acts 17:30). There are no men or group of men, other than the apostles of Christ that has been or ever will be given such authority in the church. And the apostles were completely subject to the authority of Christ and specially chosen for their work. The same apostles that guided the Church by inspiration of the Holy Spirit continue to guide the church of Christ through their inspired words that were revealed and confirmed to us by the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven. (Heb. 1:1;2:3,4).

And according to the New Testament the preachers are to be treated exactly the same way everyone else is treated in the congregation. If they follow the truth and are faithful to Christ they are to be loved, respected, expected to repent of any sins and to be forgiven when they repent. If the elders do not treat them in this fashion then Christ will hold them accountable for the souls of these men. If they teach false doctrine and fail to repent of teaching it and refuse to hear the truth, every individual in the congregation, under the leadership of the elders, have an obligation to discipline them as they would any other member of the church. If those elders fail to provide this leadership they will give an account to Christ for that failure. (Heb. 13:17).

But the idea that we have some way to hold any authority over all the churches under Christ so that we can “hold them accountable”, as a congregation in the aggregate, in the place of Christ is unscriptural. And such is a usurpation of our Lord’s authority as the head of the church.

As brother Robin has pointed out:

“I know of several preachers who I believe would admit to being treated quite well... but I don't think that is what you are talking about.... you seem to be implying that all churches treat their preachers badly, and thus need to be 'held accountable'.”

I also know of plenty of preachers who are being treated quite well and are held in high respect for their love for and teaching of the truth of God’s eternal word. And I am also aware of some that have turned from the truth and began to teach false doctrine. And these congregations, under the guidance of faithful elders, who understand that they will give an account to Christ for the souls under their care including the “preacher”, ultimately disciplined them. Some of those who were so disciplined repented and remain, even to this day, faithful preachers of the gospel. And others who refused to repent after being disciplined have left the faith and have not yet returned. But anyone who thinks that these faithful elders are guilty of “killing” these preachers who were unfaithful to Christ are just ignorant of the facts in the case. It is Satan who kills preachers as he kills any other Christian by deception and temptation and it is Christ who sustains faithful preachers of the gospel.

Because of the actions of these elders, who disciplined unfaithful preachers, the church has grown and remains faithful. Not every preacher who complains of “bad treatment” is telling the complete truth about how they have been treated. They often behave like our Brother Jason who complains of how “youth ministers” are “biting the dust” by giving us only his side of the story. We have not had the opportunity to hear the other side. We have not heard from those in the leadership at those congregations that he complains about concerning their reasons for the actions that they have taken or if they have even taken the actions that he charges them with having taken. I say this to demonstrate that we not only do not have the authority to judge “churches” in this matter but that we have no means of obtaining the necessary accurate information necessary to such judgements even if we did have the right to in some way “hold them accountable.”

It is our Lord Jesus Christ who will hold the “churches” accountable for their actions and in particular He will hold the elders accountable for the souls over which they have been given the duty to “watch”. (Heb. 13:17).

Let us get away from this notion that we can, in a forum such as this, decide just what various congregations and the elders who lead them should have done in certain circumstances about which we can seldom if ever have sufficient knowledge of the facts to make such judgements. Especially in view of the simple fact that we shall never have the authority to make such judgements concerning their behavior much less in some way hold them accountable for their actions.

All we can do is teach what the word of God says that we should do and pray that those who love our Lord will be obedient to him in all things. But the matter of accountability is in the hands of the head of the church and the elders in each individual local congregation.

And those who have chosen to commit their entire lives to the preaching of the gospel of Christ need to read just how that the preachers of the truth have always been treated in the scriptures. Read of how the prophets were “treated”. Read of how the apostles were treated. All of them were slain for Christ and the words that they preached except for the apostle John who died in exile for preaching the truth of the gospel of Christ. Look at how the apostle Paul was treated by those who wanted to bring Christians back under the Law of Moses. Look at our blessed Lord and how he was treated for preaching the truth.

I advise all of those who would do the work of an Evangelist, as Timothy and Titus did, to read the instructions of the apostle Paul concerning this great work.

“I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2Tim. 4:1-4).

Notice first of all the one that will hold the preacher accountable for this work. It is God, and the Lord Jesus Christ who shall judge the quick and the dead AT HIS APPEARING. And the instructions, which follow from inspiration, are specific and very much to the point. And all one need do is envision any man following these instruction in our congregations today to see just how they are likely to be “treated” by faithful and unfaithful. They will be supported and strengthened by faithful brothers and sisters and they will most assuredly be vilified by the unfaithful. Notice Paul’s inspired instructions to:

1. Preach the word. With the use of this word Paul told Timothy to preach the doctrine of Christ. WE are not to preach the creeds of men or the opinions of men or to please and satisfy any audience of men. Nor are we to seek to thrill and excite men with emotionally charged speeches common among today’s preachers who seek to lead people in the religion of excitement rather than allowing them through faith to experience the genuine excitement of religion. Which excitement is found only in daily obedient subjective practice of the faith. One can hear a stirring speech on giving to those in need but one cannot experience the excitement of such until he or she gives to one that they know is in need. One can hear moving words about the power of prayer but he cannot comprehend its genuine power until he has made pray a daily practice of his life. One listen to “Christian rock bands and orchestras with the most stirring music but he cannot sense that true genuine excitement until he sings with MELODY IN HIS OWN HEART TO God as a daily sense of Joy and gracious thankfulness to our Lord. Christianity cannot be mimicked or imitated and the emotions associated with it do not come naturally to anyone who does not practice it. Thus, preach the word for it has the power to examine the hearts of men. (Heb. 4:12). Preaching anything else has no power but to please, tickle, and satisfy the ears of men. The preaching of anything other than the truth is a tragedy. 2. Be instant. This word “instant” is a translation of the Greek term “ephistemi {ef-is'-tay-mee}” which means to “be at hand or be ready”. Where the word of God is not known preachers is to be “instant” or ready, available and at hand to preach it. Where the word of God is being neglected or opposed the preacher of the gospel should ever be “ready or at hand” to meet that challenge. Where false doctrine is being taught and accepted by those who running after their own lust have searched for and found teachers willing to scratch their “itching ears” the gospel preacher should be instant or ready and on hand. They should be ready to teach “sound doctrine” and reprove, rebuke those who are unsound in their teaching.

3. And to do so “in season”. The word “season” is a translation of the Greek term “eukairos {yoo-kah'-ee-roce} which means “when the opportunity arises”. And “out of season” from the word “akairos {ak- ah'-ee-roce} meaning when it is not so opportune to preach it. 4. Reprove. This word is one that will get you into trouble with most people. It is not likely to always, if ever, to be a pleasant and enjoyable experience and is calculated to surely draw the false charge of “unloving” to be leveled against the preacher who does this faithfully when the “season” calls for it. It is a translation of the Greek term “elegcho (el-eng'-kho)” meaning “to convict, refute, confute.” . It is further defined in detail as, “1a) generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted 1b) by conviction to bring to the light, to expose 2) to find fault with, correct. Secondarily, it means 2a) by word 2a1) to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, and reprove. 2a2) to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation”. Brethren, when the occasion calls for this type of action by the preacher one will see very quickly the need for a strong eldership and a faithful congregation. For if the congregation as a whole is not faithful to Christ and the truth of the gospel such preaching will bring severe consequences upon the preacher but he must do it or be unfaithful to Christ himself. If you cannot face doing this when it is unpopular for you to do it you need not try to be a preacher of the gospel. For such is commanded for you to do. 5. Rebuke. Another "word" extremely unpopular among us today. One that we are constantly being told that we have no right to do. It is a translation of the Greek Term “epitimao (ep-ee-tee-mah'-o)” which means to “ rebuke, chide, censure severely, to admonish or charge sharply.” Now Paul told Timothy to do this and he was inspired by the Holy Spirit to tell him to do rebuke as a part of his preaching of the word of God. When a faithful gospel preacher has the season or occasion to be called upon to do this he is to be supported by all who are faithful in his doing so. And Christ, the head of the church will judge those congregations that do not stand with such a preacher when he exercises his responsibility to rebuke those who sin. And this naturally will not b always bring him into the good favor of those whom he must rebuke. But he is not speaking for himself but rather he is speaking for Christ from God’s word. It is not to be a personal rebuke from him to others but a clear rebuke based upon the preaching of the WORD OF GOD so that the rebuke comes from God’s word through the preacher to those in need of such rebuke. When a preacher of the gospel does this in the presence of a congregation where the majority is in need of such rebuke he is apt to be treated rather severely. And such treatment is unjust and that congregation will answer to the Lord for it. But they will not answer as a congregation but each individual man in that congregation will give an account to God for his actions or lack thereof in the circumstances that transpire and no person will be exempt from his responsibility. Keep this in mind, brethren. Every Christian in a congregation will face God in the judgement and give an account to God for his or her actions during such occurrences. Did you as an individual Christian stand firm for the truth with those who preached it or did you support those who had searched out teachers who would teach a doctrine more suitable to their desires? If you did you will stand before God in the last day and HE will hold you personally and individually responsible for your choices. There will is not any holding of churches responsible but that of every individual as individuals within the churches that will be judged for their deeds! SO, do not ever think that you can just ignore such troubles in the church as if they do not concern you for they most certainly do within your ability and opportunity to act. But when some preacher is preaching his own opinions and is seeking to lead a faithful congregation away from the truth and his teaching is rejected by a congregation because it is from his own heart instead of from the word of God. And rightly they will reprove him. He needs therefore to repent or be disciplined by the church. And those who have suffered this treatment are apt to come into forums like this one and complain that they have been sorely mistreated. Whereas a faithful preacher of the gospel who has suffered for preaching the truth of Christ will not likely come into a forum such as this and complain. Because he knows that it is the Lord who will reward him according to his works and he will hold the congregation that mistreated him up in prayer before the Lord that they may be lead to repentance and ultimate restoration to faithfulness. But he will continue without fear to rebuke according to the word of God no matter what the price he must pay to do it. For to do less than this would be unfaithful of him. 6. Exhort. Now this is the one that we all like the most. And indeed among those faithful to Christ it is most likely to be the most common and effective means of preaching the word. This is from the Greek term “parakaleo {par-ak-al-eh'-o} which means “to call to one's side, call for, summon” and the idea being to come along side one another to comfort, strengthen, instruct and encourage each other. Among those who’s hearts are determined to serve our Lord faithfully and have made a definite decision that they will submit their wills entirely to the will of God such a practice is not only essential is beautiful and edifying and productive of harmony, unity, and brotherhood. The strong can support the weak and the weak can come to love the strong and blessings abound innumerable. In order to do this properly a preacher of the gospel must, as Paul instructed Timothy, give himself to “reading, to exhortation, and to doctrine”. How fortunate is the preacher who has a congregation filled with such whom he can regularly engage in exhorting! And the Preacher must do all of these things “with all LONGSUFFERING and DOCTRINE”. The word that is translated “longsuffering” is the Greek term “makrothumia {mak-roth-oo-mee'-ah}” which means, “patience, endurance, constancy, steadfastness, perseverance, forbearance, longsuffering, slowness in avenging wrongs.” And those preachers who come into a forum like this or among brethren in any other place with nothing but complaints about “how poorly they were treated” fail miserably to understand Paul’s inspired instructions in this verse. He told Timothy to preach the word. He told him to reprove, rebuke, and exhort WITH ALL LONGSUFFERING. Meaning that Timothy was to do his duty with patience, steadfastness, forbearance, endurance, constancy, and a decided slowness in avenging wrongs. He did not tell Timothy to go among faithful brethren and grumble, complain, and spread unsubstantiated charges in other congregations about those among whom he had recently worked and was “mistreated”. All such whining is contrary to the very concept of longsuffering and forbearance. It is a spirit contrary to the spirit or mind of Christ who suffered wrong and as a lamb before his shearers opened not his mouth. It is contrary to the way early Christians took their suffering for Christ sake. They counted it all JOY that they were counted worth to suffer for Christ who died for them. Notice what the inspired apostle Peter said. “If any man speak, [let him speak] as the oracles of God; if any man minister, [let him do it] as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy [are ye]; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or [as] a thief, or [as] an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. Yet if [any man suffer] as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls [to him] in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:11-19).

TO my preaching brethren: If you are suffering for the name of Christ, whether it be at the hands of evil men who have never obeyed the gospel or by unfaithful brethren whose love for Christ has grown cold. Count is “all joy” that you have been counted worthy to suffer for His sake. And do not act so surprised as if it is a strange thing that you too must on occasion face a “fiery trial” as if some “strange thing has happened to you”. For you should expect such when you go about to tell the truth to those who have no desire to hear it. And if you are, in fact, being reproached for the name of Christ then “happy are ye” . But whatever you do, do not let any one of you suffer as an evil doer or a busybody in other men’s matters. For judgement will begin at the house of God and God will hold all men in that house accountable for their deeds whether they be good or bad. Therefore rest assured that God, who knows all the facts in every case, will exact sever accountability upon those guilty of wrong doing and he will reward those who are faithful. Just make sure that you are counted among those who are faithful to Christ and there will be nothing to fear.

Thus, let me encourage you to not spend you life in grumbling, complaining and whining about your sufferings. “quit you like men and be strong” in the faith. Give yourself to reading, to exhortation and doctrine”. Make full prove of thy ministry. Be faithful. Teach sound doctrine according to the truth revealed by the Holy Spirit in the scriptures and do not be discouraged, which is caused by unbelief and is cured by faith in the resurrected and returning Christ who will judge us all and make us all accountable. (Acts 17:30). If you find that you have been teaching anything that is not in harmony with the truth of God’s word repent before all. But understand that you cannot be “killed” spiritually so long as your faith in Christ remains strong. It is when you lose that faith that Satan can destroy you. “Semper fidelis” (Keep the faith)!

Your Brother in Christ,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2001

Darrell,

Let's look at the portion of my post that you quoted in context. I asked, in reference to the message that started this thread,

"How does a preacher "split churches"?

and then said, "If he preaches the Word... and some don't like it... then they may leave... is that a problem? No... he is preaching the Word. "

When I said, "...is that a problem? No..." I meant that a preacher surely couldn't be blamed for 'splitting' a church when he was preaching the Word. I think you will agree.

Of course, the situation that you outline happens, and it is a sad situation. It is always sad when someone rejects the Truth of the Word.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2001

Robin -- whenever a preacher preaches the Word faithfully, there is no problem. By faithfully I mean he preaches what the Bible says, and does so in a spirit that will help those who hear understand and heed (i.e. take action on) what he has preached. If folks decide to leave, or to start another congregation because they would rather have their ears tickeled, or would rather the preacher NOT preach the whole truth, then no, that is not the preachers fault, but the fault of the listeners. So yes, I agree with you on that.

Preacher the WHOLE Word, and do so in a spirit that will edify the congregation, then let the chips fall where they may.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2001

Robin,

I do believe I am struggling with the whole Brotherhood thing. I have probably painted with too broad of a stroke...I do apologise. No offense to you who are at churches that are oozing with the lost coming to Christ or for you ministers who are at churches "treating you well". I, and many of the people coming out of Bible colleges, have had more troubling experiences than good in MANY contacts with Christian Churches. (Some while in ministry and others just in visiting - I literally have visited/served coast-to-coast) The mindsets are across the country - for being a "non-denom" the Restoration churches sure are tightly woven in trust and a sense of the Christian community. I am positive these issues are not isolated to Restoration churches. However, I believe it is arrogant to "have the corner on preaching the Bible"...not that that is what you said but it is the aura of your context. The problem isn't the Word; it's the people in leadership not living in accorance to it. I visited a camp here in Kentucky and was appaled by the us/them conversation with the camp manager. It was "The Brotherhood" and "other churches"; he was doing some major backpeddling when I told him I was from a church outside the "Brotherhood". It was sad because we absolutely believe the same thing! I do believe the litmus test, if you will, for leadership and all in the Body is the WORD. My background, my upbringing, my education - all within the Restoration Movement. I will not forsake what I have learned for I believe it is the Truth. I am way outside my comfort zone serving with this community church and I think I know why...the lost. I am in constant contact with the lost. They are flooding into the church looking for the answers the Gospel has for them. PRAISES!!!

I am totally NOT a Democrat nor a Clinton fan...BIG TIME! :) As for Post-President Clinton coming to Willow Creek to speak...it was not a church service nor was it to the lost...I believe there were only select people - though many - that were able to come hear him. Who knows why he was applauded but perhaps, someone through that experience was able to share the Gospel with the most pwoerful man in the world at that day. You comment above only demonstrates the willingness for Restoration churches to dismiss the vision of a Willow Creek as a watering down of the Gospel rather than doing "whatever it takes" (short of compromising the Gospel/Word of God) to reach the lost. Does the Christian College you are affiliated with believe in that vision/mission? - I would hope so. There are many churches, yes even including restoration churches, that tell the people what the WANT to hear. True churches, restoration or not, tell the people what they NEED to hear (all, of course, in accordance to the Bible).

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2001

Jason,

You have said, "I do believe I am struggling with the whole Brotherhood thing. I have probably painted with too broad of a stroke...I do apologise." Apology accepted.

If by "the whole Brotherhood thing" you mean churches with a Restoration background, then it is a good thing to struggle with. I'm not sure you will find many (any?) on this forum that believe that only "Brotherhood" churches are holding to the Truth. The "Brotherhood" that we should be concerned with is our Brothers and Sisters in Christ. "Not the only Christians, but Christians only." If you are serving with a church that is outside the Restoration Movement, but is teaching and practicing the whole Word... then that is good.

Then you say, "I believe it is arrogant to "have the corner on preaching the Bible"...not that that is what you said but it is the aura of your context. " You are right, that is not what I said... and your interpretation of my "aura" is off. I personally have not seen this "Restoration Movement to the exclusion of all others" mindset... I have seen a strong commitment to the Word and a willingness to combat False Doctrine.

You then say, "I do believe the litmus test, if you will, for leadership and all in the Body is the WORD. " I do too... as do most in the "Brotherhood" that I know. If you are implying that most in the "Brotherhood" believe there is something more required to be "in the Body", I do not agree.

You say, "I am way outside my comfort zone serving with this community church and I think I know why...the lost. I am in constant contact with the lost. They are flooding into the church looking for the answers the Gospel has for them. PRAISES!!! " That is great! And it is happening in some "Brotherhood" churches (not all)... but I'm willing to guess that it is not happening in all Community churches either.

Then you say, "You comment above only demonstrates the willingness for Restoration churches to dismiss the vision of a Willow Creek as a watering down of the Gospel rather than doing "whatever it takes" (short of compromising the Gospel/Word of God) to reach the lost. " I wasn't dismissing "the vision"... But, we must be VERY careful that in doing "whatever it takes" we do not end up "compromising the Gospel/Word of God".

Then you say, "Does the Christian College you are affiliated with believe in that vision/mission? - I would hope so. I am not affiliated with a Christian College... and I'm not sure where you got that assumption. One does not have to be affiliated with a college to read the Word and come to an understanding of THE "vision/mission" from it.

I think you need to stick to the Word and not worry about meeting expectations (real or perceived) of those in the "Brotherhood"... which seems to be the direction you are headed.

Thanks for sharing.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2001