new milker/ natural cold care/experimental registry questions (goats)

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Hello everyone! I asked a question a couple days ago about naturally treating my goat's cold. Your responses were terrific, but I accidentally deleted one that included some mailing lists to join about natural goat care. I can't find any lists & I also can't seem to find the original msg on the archives to which to refer! Can someone help a newbie out here, please? Sorry for being so dense!

My other question is about milking. I have a yearling & she's my first dairy goat I've ever had. We've had her just a week & so far, I think we're both doing fairly well. HOWEVER, she's pretty impatient &, since I'm new to this, I'm not the quickest milker in the world, lemme tell ya! I have found that lots of food in the bowl & then milking like mad helps, though. LOL I am slowly getting the hang of things, but I'm concerned about not "milking her out". Actually, come to think of it I'm not even sure what "milking her out" really means, LOL. Is it when there IS no more milk? ANYway, I have been milking twice a day for sure (she was on a 7:30/7:30 schedule that I'm slowly trying to move up a little b/c I'm a pretty early person . . . ) & I milk 3 times on the days her patience is extra short & we don't have a very successful morning session. I just milk until she starts kicking & trying to get out of the stanchion & if more food in the bowl doesn't solve the problem, we call it quits. I'm trying to be sure to end on a positive note, so it's a pleasant experience for both of us. I'm also trying NOT to teach her that kicking & misbehaving means immediate release. . . (Believe me - this is REALLY HARD sometimes! - typed thru gritted teeth - ) I praise her lavishly after every successful no-kicking/no-feet-in-the-bucket milking session we have. So - any suggestions, comments, etc? Should I be worried about any complications from me not milking her out all the way? Mastitis? Lower production? Or anything else? Is 3 times a day too much for her, especially since she's so young? & has a cold? We're getting about 17 oz each time. (I'm filling spring water bottles & freezing them) But we had a great morning this morning & I filled two! I'm a bit concerned about her cold & this being too hard on her body . . . but on the other hand, I'm worried about complications from not being properly milked. Ack! The turbulent times of a new goat owner!

My last question is about registration & her future offspring. She's a Nubian/Togg mix & both of her parents are purportedly registered purebreds & from very good dairy stock. I'm trying to get the owner to give me more information on them for my future breeding purposes. Is there any way to register her, do you know? I know there are "registered experimentals" but I'm too new to the Goat World to know exactly what this means. Anyway, Maggie was an experimental from this woman's own herd - she doesn't show or anything, but much of her stock are registered purebreeds. She told me that by the looks of Maggie & her udder & everything else, she expected her to far surpass her mom, who was the best milker of her herd. . . ? I'm not interested in showing her or anything, I just want her ancestry info for my own purposes & for her future offspring so I can know who to breed her to & also be able to show potential kid-buyers that they're getting a quality goat from good lines, y'know?

Thanks in advance!

-- Sarah/MI (colonel@frontiernet.net), April 07, 2001

Answers

Response to new milker/ natural cold care/experimental registry questions

Sarah,she needs to be milked out completely at each milking for two reasons.Her production will drop if she isn't milked out completely and she needs to learn that she doesn't get off the milking stand until YOU are finished.I don't think leaving a bit of milk will cause mastitis.That's from bacteria.As for what is completely milked out? To me it means emptying the udder and milking until I can't get two squirts in a row from each teat.I hope that makes sense.Good milkers will keep making milk and theoreticaly,at least,you could sit there all day and keep getting a squirt every few seconds.

-- JT (gone2seed@hotmail.com), April 07, 2001.

Response to new milker/ natural cold care/experimental registry questions

I bought a registered nubian nanny 2 years ago who had never been milked. She has some age on her but I liked the looks of her and her bag. She was pretty wild and the owner said that she didn't think that I could ever milk her. Well, we had a battle at first, but I won. I did lots of one handed milking with the other hand holding down the foot. I got pretty sore a couple of times. Sometimes it helps for someone else to hold the legs. The main thing is not to let her win. When she figures out that she WILL get milked, like it or not, she will settle down. Now, 2 years later she is a great milker only time she causes a problem is when she first kids, she will not let anyone near for about 48 hours. If you try to come close, she runs at you biting and snapping.. Believe me, goat bites hurt! Well good luck! Milkmaid-TX

-- milkmaid (inkina@cctc.net), April 07, 2001.

Response to new milker/ natural cold care/experimental registry questions

I have sometimes hobbled a "dancer", tying one or both of those hind legs down at the back of the milkstand. What helped more than anything for me, though, was putting a bale of alfalfa in front of the milkstand. That makes them happy for as long as I want them there....I agree that the goat should be milked out each time. I confess to being a one-handed milker. I hold a quart jar right up under the teat(makes it harder to step in); when I fill it up I empty it into my gallon jar. After I milk both sides out, I go back to the first side, which has accumlated a little more by now, then massage the whole udder a little, and milk out again, until it feels empty and I'm not getting more milk.

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), April 07, 2001.

Response to new milker/ natural cold care/experimental registry questions

I would perhaps try being a tad bit firmer with her. As she grows and puts on some body weight and age to her, she will be the one in control. Togg/Nubians can be awesome does, and very large!

I milk the doe until no more milk comes from the teats, then running my hands up around and over the udder lightly massage/bumping the udder, stripping the teats again, probably 4 times, then the udder is empty. I then spary the teats with a spray bottle (purchase a horse one that can contain chemicals so it lasts) fill it with water and about 3 tablespoons of Chlorox. I put each teat into my cupped hand and flood it with the solution. This helps to close the orifice (the whole in the end of the teats) and helps keep bacteria out. I also keep the does up on the milk stand for a few minutes after I am through milking, which also gives the teat some time to close. I teach my yearlings patience, and....I slap them. I take a firm flat hand and smack their flank if they are awful, yelling NO at them. It does not hurt them or my hand, just enough to startle them. Soon just the yelling of the NO will remind them to be still. As older does, you will have a better relationship with them where they have learned how to behave, and a "Don't even think about it" works!

Oh the woes of the "she is a Purebred". Get the full names and numbers of the doe she is out of and the buck she is out of. Go to this site: http://www.khimairafarm.com/registration.htm

and fill the form out, printing it out when you are done. If the gal really has registered stock she would have one of these forms at her home to fill out for you. If she doesn't really have registered stock, which is usually what happens, than you can still register your gal, but the dam and the sire would be put down as Unknown or unregistered, you would fill in the rest of the form, and she would be called a Recorded Grade. Certainly better to be an Experimental, which would still show against Recorded Does, but has all their ancestory intact. Make sure you go to the trouble of only breeding her to registered bucks, check that paperwork at the time of breeding, and the bucks tattoos, retaining a service memo at the time of service, or do not use the buck! Then you will use these same forms on the internet, or the ones that ADGA sends you to register your kids. Attaching the Service Memo, which really is just a small form showing you have permission to use the buck. Go to ADGA's site and learn more: http://www.adga.org/

Along with the application if she is just going to be recorded you will need a statement from another ADGA breeder that has a current registration that states she conforms to breed standards. This will be a tough one with Togg/Nubian. To much airplane ears and not enough roman nose and you can't ethically say she conforms to Nubian breed standards. Incorrect coloring for a Togg and she doesn't conform to those breed standards either. How about posting a pic over at Patty's site and we all can see what we can do to help. Or scan a photo to me. Perhaps if her ears are erect enough she could go Alpine! Oh the horrors! Bernice will kill me for that one :)

I didn't post to your other question since I am not really big on herbal remedies as treatment, though I do use some for prevention. If you haven't had fever by now with this doe, than I doubt this is pnemonia. If your runny nose persists, or she gets crustyness around her nose, I would bet you have nose bots. And if they are in your area, it would explain why you saw other does with runny noses at lots of farms. Runny noses are not normal in a goat, and goats don't get colds like we do. They do get true sinus infections, but you see fever with that, left untreated it can twist the nose. Be very careful with the Herbal site, you have to understand that some of them choose herbal over anything else, even choosing the sterility of their stock over using any antibiotics for kidding problems. I simply don't accept mortality of any kind at my place, with the smart use of drugs, understanding nutrition (the biggest secret bullet you will find), and prevention, lots of the problems folks "give" their goats don't need to happen. You would be wise to temper your herbal approach with good sound management practices, perhaps from Nubian Talk (warning that our board like this one gets going sometimes), Togg Talk or Recorded Grade lists over on Yahoo.com Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 07, 2001.


Response to new milker/ natural cold care/experimental registry questions

There are two yahoogroups lists that I know of. One is Holistic Goats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Holistic-Goats

The other is 7m Farm Herbal, more general farm, not specific to goats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/7mFarm-Herbal

-- Skip Walton (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), April 07, 2001.



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