Hi everyone...sorry about the WITHOUT but I'm looking for a variable contrast resin coated warmtone paper that will give me warm tones without using a separate toner. Is there such a beast. Could anyone that is using one send me their recommendations. Could you also supply advice re: paper developer used. Thanks...jim

-- Jim (p645n@hotmail.com), April 02, 2001

Answers

You might want to try Ilford MG Warm Tone. I've only used the FB version but there is a RC version.

-- David Parmet (david@parmet.net), April 02, 2001.

Try Ethol LPD 1:7 with Ilford MGWT RC.

-- Chris Ellinger (chris@ellingerphoto.com), April 02, 2001.

Jim:

It depends on what you mean by warm tone. If you mean a nice warm brown like you can get by sepia toning, the answer is no. If you mean a paper that has whites that are not cold-toned and blacks that aren't blue black, the answer is yes. Even Ilford's warmtone paper isn't all that warmtoned unless you use a separate toner. Even with the warmest-toned developers, most of today's warm-toned papers still require using a separate toner.

-- Ken Burns (kenburns@twave.net), April 02, 2001.

I find Forte polywarmtone RC in LPD 4:1 gives a very warm tone, more so than Ilford MGRC warm tone in LPD.

-- gary calverase (grcalveras@aol.com), April 02, 2001.

Ken struck the nail on the head...I tried Ilford MG WarmTone in RC and Fiber when it was first introduced. Big disappointment as neither paper is very warmtoned. I'm trying to get a warmtoned look without all the extra steps that toning requires.

-- Jim (p645n@hotmail.com), April 02, 2001.

Bite the bullet and tone. Not only that, try several toners and papers and find the combination that says what you want it to. Great results require effort, time and dedication. Short cuts are great when they exist, but I have found that to excel at anything you need to go the extra mile. FWIW. ;^D)

-- Doremus Scudder (ScudderLandreth@compuserve.com), April 03, 2001.

You all might try the Ilford MG Warmtone with Ethol's LPD developer at a dilution of 1:4 or 1:6. This developer will, at a higher dilution will give warmer tones and with no dilution, cool tones. Try it, it may help you cut out your search for a non toning step...

-- Scott Walton (f64sw@hotmail.com), April 03, 2001.

Have you tried Neutol WA from Agfa? I've got nice warm tones from warm tone papers using this developer...

-- David Parmet (david@parmet.net), April 03, 2001.

Try Forte with Edwardals (sp ?) SUper Platinum II. I ran a series of test using that paper with a variety of developers, including "Warm tone", and the Super II was warmer than any other developer I tried. I check with serveral other warm tone papers as well, but the above combo gave the warmest look without toning. At least in my part of the world.

-- Ann Clancy (aclancy@broadband.att.com), April 03, 2001.

I've used Forte Polywarmtone in Edwal Platinum 2 as well. The results were a little too greenish for my taste. In addition the batch of paper dried to a severe curl and was susceptable to more curling in humid conditions and no alterations to my in fixing and washing regimen aleviated the problem. I am now using Polymax C in LPD with some warmish results but it will need toning. I am trying Ilford next.

-- Robert Orofino (minotaur1949@aol.com), April 03, 2001.

I forgot to mention, that the Forte paper I tested was fiber grade 3. I didn't have any promblems with curl. I screen dry, face down and then place in a dry mount press until I get around to taking them out. Warm tone is not my 1st or 2nd choice. Was running a group of test for my class to see they could see the difference with paper/developers. It is quite interesting and would suggest it as a great tool to help your folks get an idea of the tools we have available.(at least until the Photo Gods decide to remove something else we all love.)

-- Ann Clancy (aclancy@broadband.att.com), April 04, 2001.

Forte Polywarmtone developed in Tentenal Centabrom S gives very warm tones. However I find the olive cast unpleasant. Same applies for the Forte paper in Agfa Neutol WE. Ilford Multigrade WT in either developer is IMHO a better bet.

Adrian

-- Adrian Twiss (avtwiss@ukonline.co.uk), April 04, 2001.

HEY, EVERYBODY!

Several days ago I said that today's warmtone papers don't produce true warm tones without sepia or some other toner like the papers of old did . I still say that this statement is true for Ilford's MG Warmtone, Forte's Polywarmtone, Kodak's Polymax Fine Art "C", and Agfa's Multicontrast Classic. None of these papers can produce a true warm brown tone without some help from a toner. Of course, it is true that with some developers, these papers can obtain tones that are warmer than they produce with other developers.

BUT, I HAVE DISCOVERED A PAPER THAT CAN DO IT THE SAME WAY THE PAPERS OLD DID!!!! Today I printed some portraits using for the first time the Bergger Variable Contrast paper CB Style, Cream Base. I developed this paper in the same developer I have been using with Ilford's MGW. With the Bergger paper I got warm brown tones that look just like the Ilford paper does after toning using Varigam Bleach 1 and Toner 1. I didn't have to tone the Bergger paper at all. I am going to go back to some of the old warm tone developer formulas and try them again with this paper. IF YOU WANT PRINTS WITH REAL WARM TONES, THEN YOU'VE GOT TO TRY THIS PAPER TOO!!!

-- Ken Burns (kenburns@twave.net), April 06, 2001.

There are developers for brown tones on chloride paper. Here are two examples:

Brown tone paper developer Agfa 120 Stock solution.

Warm Water (125 F or 52 C) - 750.0 ml Sodium Sulfite, desiccated - 60.0 grams Hydroquinone - 24.0 grams Potassium Carbonate - 80.0 grams Add cold water to make - 1.0 liter

This developer will produce a variety of brown to warm black tones on various papers depending on dilution and exposure time. The following table lists the dilution and exposure for various tones on Agfa papers.

Development Conditions for Agfa Developer 120 Development Paper Type: Brovira Image Tone: warm black Exposure Time: normal* Dilution: 1:5 Development time @ 68 deg F (20 C): 4-5 minutes Paper Type: Portriga Rapid Image Tone: brown-black Exposure Time: 1 « x longer than normal* Dilution: 1:4 Development time @ 68 deg F (20 C): 3 minutes

*By normal exposure is to be understood the exposure required to produce the best possible print when developed for 1 « minutes in Agfa 100.

Brown tone paper developer Agfa 123 For portrait paper Stock solution.

Warm Water (125 F or 52 C) - 750.0 ml Sodium Sulfite, desiccated - 60.0 grams Hydroquinone - 24.0 grams Potassium Carbonate - 80.0 grams Potassium Bromide - 25.0 grams Add cold water to make - 1.0 liter

This developer produces tones ranging from brown black to olive brown on Portriga Rapid paper depending on dilution and exposure. The table below gives the typical development conditions for the various tones.

Development Conditions for Agfa Developer 123 Paper Type: Portriga Rapid Image Tone: brown-black Exposure Time: 2 « x longer than normal* Dilution: 1:1 Development time @ 68 deg F (20 C): 2 minutes Paper Type: Portriga Rapid Image Tone: neutral to sepia brown Exposure Time: 2 x longer than normal* Dilution: 1:4 Development time @ 68 deg F (20 C): 5-6 minutes The term "normal exposure" means the exposure required to produce the best possible print when developed for 1-1/2 minutes in Agfa 100.

-- Patric (jenspatric@mail.bip.net), April 06, 2001.