DK - FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

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This Comment Appeared at: http://pub5.ezboard.com/fyourdontimebomb2000.showMessageRange?topicID=25975.topic&start=51&stop=77#dancr

I've been away for two weeks of last month and tomorrow I'll probably be away for another week. I've had quite a hard time keeping up with the board because of exactly this problem that is being discussed. Beginning just over one week ago I began looking every day at the last pages of the forum and taking note of who the initiators were of unvisited threads. I'm talking about ones that did not attract a single one of our 1500 registered users to bother even clicking to see if the thread might be of any interest (let alone to contribute a reply). To me, this is a sign of someone who is clearly out of touch with what is of interest to others in this forum.

Then, it happened to me. I was flabbergasted. One of my own posts got absolutely nobody to look at it. What was wrong with me? I've only ever started a few new threads and they have tended to go into extra innings (Part II, Part III...). This was a first for me, I think, and it caused me to really take stock of what I am doing here and why, and maybe to termper what I am about to say, as compared to how I might have said it a few days ago.

There are three posters in a tie for first place, during the past week or so, for initiating these "nobody gives a shit threads." They are Maher, Maggie, and Abby, at 13 such posts apiece. Tied for a distant second place, at less than half that number are Deb Mc, David Whitelaw, and Terry2010. There are five people who had it happen twice, and I didn't count the ones who, as I did, had it happen just once, but I think these were about 20. Considering just these threads, we account for four whole pages of the forum, plus the several pages that the sysops have to keep the forum trimmed back to, to avoid having anything fall into the abyss.

I believe that the three first place "winners" should be rationed to initiating one new thread per day, for a while, maybe indefinitely. This shouldn't be a problem for Maher, since he can probably find a generic title and post all of his comments and links there. Maggie and Abby will have to seriously consider which item they believe is most important and be selective. This wouldn't prevent them from participating on threads that others have started.

I note that in the three weeks that Abby has been on this forum she has posted almost as many times as I have, although I have been here since the founding about one year ago. I would seriously recommend a netsearch on the term "netiquette" and some reading about the usual expectation that newcommers should post sparingly and lurk until getting a good feel for the culture of a forum. Even zog, our most prolific sysop, averages only 10 posts per day. Think about it.

Finally, we cannot afford to "paste the web" here. We all know how to find the news. Most of us come here to talk to our news. I suggest that we try to just provide a link and quote the parts we're discussing, and then that all thread initiating posts should have some commentary, at least in moderate depth which is original from the minds of those who are posting the link. By moderate depth I mean more than just a sentence or two. We want to know what you think and not how many newspaper articles you can paste in an hour. My opinion is that if the topic is not important enough or interesting enough to trigger you to want to have a say about it, then it's a good sign that nobody else will want to talk about it either. --- March 11, 2001.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001

Answers

Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

It's always been my humble opinion that "Dancr" is pretty impressed with herself, without cause or reason to be.

Oh well.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001


Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

Yep, it got her banned at the old Currents board and she has been removed from the change-of-password list. Maggie, Maher and David had posted information of the most useful and timely kind (especially Mags!) and I was absolutely astounded when she wrote what she did. Well, not absolutely, given the source, but quite a bit.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001

Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

although I have been here since the founding about one year ago.

This kind of says it all. She didn't even realize that TB was started long before a year ago. Blessings, David

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001


Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

dancr was at the old TB Classic back in early 99 when I got hooked on it.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001

Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

Please see my post about moving on if you haven't already. Thanks!

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004sTi

attempting to link

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001



Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

I can see a lot of you are angered by this, and I saw the original responses too. You have a right to your feelings, but I'd like to explore why I think Dancr should not be banned from this forum.

David, when Dancr talks about being here from the founding of this board a year ago, it was merely as a way of gauging her frequency of postings since everyone started at zero on their posting meter on the Ezboard incarnation. I always valued her postings on the old pre-Y2k board, and I would welcome her here. I don't have any close personal relationship with her off the board, but I've always respected her. She doesn't necessarily share the same political or religious perspectives that most of the posters on the board have expressed in your commentary, or in the forwarded postings that speak for you -- but neither do I.

<>

Clue for you. We know she is a parent, she has a family life, she homeschools, and we don't know why she has had to be away a lot. Given the demographics of the forum, she could be dealing with an ailing parent for all we know. She took the time off to write (and research!) what she probably felt was constructive criticism in the midst of getting ready for another absence, to respond to what she (and others) had seen as a problem -- too many postings that weren't even getting opened. I'd give her some slack just from that statement of hers alone.

<>

As have we all (and yes, while I refused to post there on TB2000 anymore, I did lurk). Board had been moving far too fast.

<< last pages of the forum and taking note of who the initiators were of unvisited threads. I'm talking about ones that did not attract a single one of our 1500 registered users to bother even clicking to see if the thread might be of any interest (let alone to contribute a reply). To me, this is a sign of someone who is clearly out of touch with what is of interest to others in this forum. >>

Threads that went through at least 10 pages/ screens without a single reply from any of the 1500 members. That's not her opinion, that's fact -- unless someone did the accounting at the time to refute her numbers on any of this, and I don't recall anyone did.

<>

She's at least willing to admit that it has happened to one of her postings too, and willing to make some suggestions as to what can be done about the problem. I don't recall much discussion or introspection from the posters with zero-opener posts at the time.

<>

Again, are Dancr's figures in question here? Or are some people offended because she used a rather undiplomatic term such as "nobody gives a shit" to describe the threads? Nobody DID care enough to even open the threads, after all. And if anyone is going to take offense at her use of the word "shit," should you be concurring with the sentiments of a post that has a header saying "piss"?

<>

A proposal for a solution to a known problem. Offense taken because she named names, and had paid enough attention to the board dynamics to not consider that one size would fit all? I don't recall anyone else offering much in the way of specific alternatives, other than the alternative of keeping to the status quo and continuing to bitch about the board moving too fast.

<>

Any quarrels with her figures? Or with her view of netiquette norms for new posters, which is standard advice?

<>

Any problems with this? It's not an unreasonable suggestion that the board remain a discussion board, not just place to park headline links. We also know that there are some posters who have used outside material as a proxy attack on other forum members while being unwilling to back up their own opinion, which has not been healthy for the board.

We haven't got the software to easily track how many headers don't even get opened here on greenspun, so it may be a moot point, unless some one wants to tally anecdotally how many threads scroll off without any discussion. But if threads are not being opened consistently, it does affect our ability to keep up with the conversations here.

Diversity and cross-pollination of ideas strengthens our knowledge, our flexibility, and our ability to form more stable communities not just in cyberspace but in real life. Dancr is one of the most bright and focused posters the board has had, and she's been willing to back up her assertions with research, as she did in this case. She doesn't come onto the board to schmooze and goof around with superficial comments for the most part, she tackles serious topics with determination and intelligence.

I continue to be dismayed at these reactions I've seen to her posting, because I think you are selling her short and rejecting some valuable contributions she can make to this forum.

Firemouse



-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001


Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

Yaargh, sorry for the bad html, the angle brackets were for the quoted paragraphs or sentences in order, at least, so you can maybe figure it out in context. I have no idea how the italic fell in. Any of you Despots feel the need to tidy it up, please go right ahead.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001

Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

italics off

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001

Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

Off damn you!

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001


Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

IMHO she could have made her point without attacking posters by name. She has a right to her opinions but she could also learn a little nettiquite to boot. Blessings, David

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001


Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

Yes, Dancr did point out which posters had a consistent pattern of making postings that no-one opened. I have no reason to think that there is a single person in that forum who would have gone through all the pages to see if they were the ones who fit the pattern if she hadn't named names. Clearly some people didn't get it on their own, especially if they were up to 13 viewerless postings in a matter of days.

She did not comment on the content of the postings in her initial posting, or make any comments whatsoever on the character of the posters, or their value to the community, so I would hardly call it attacking.

David, you made a positive and contructive decision to move your postings over to Currents when there was some question of whether they really were germane to TBY2k, and I think that was a wise decision. Every board has its own particular mix and chemistry that works for a particular grouping of posters, and it is important to be aware of the nuances.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001


Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

Firemouse, there is a glitch in the system, which at times at TB...one's post shows no replies by the time it goes back a few pages, even though it had been read by others. This subject was spoken about in the same thread that Davids post came from. Dancr has been around long enough that she should have know this.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001

Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

I made the final decision to ban Dancr (with the approval of all the sysops) and I'd do it again. All sysops vote on password requests. No justification is required; a simple yes or no suffices.

If we took in everyone from Timebomb, we'd be just like Timebomb and there wouldn't be any point to having our own forum. I don't mind a bit of venting and indulged in it myself today--it's not as if we have a history of dwelling on such things. In the four months at the ezboard Currents, we didn't do much of it and we won't here. A little venting on rare occasions doesn't hurt.

Remember that the main purpose of this forum is to disseminate useful news and information.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001


Response to FWIW Dancr post on TB2000 that pissed me off

OG, I'm with you 100%. Blessings, David

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2001

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