In school the class has to write an essay on the theme "If I were a white male."

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Unk's Wild Wild West : One Thread

Everyone eagerly begins to write, only little Suzy leans back in her chair and writes nothing. "Don't you have any ideas on this theme?" the teacher wants to know. "No," answers Suzy, "I don't have any ideas; I'm pretending to be a white male!"

-- (Truth@of the .day), March 22, 2001

Answers

Lttle Suzy begins, "First thing I'd do is HATE NIGGERS!".

The teacher was so pleased. He gave little Suzy an A+!

-- (Grad_Ass@NewSchool.edu), March 22, 2001.


As I recall, there's a white male-bashing thread or two already on the board. Why don't you keep your racist views confined to one thread, as opposed to cluttering up the forum? That way we'll know all this useless garbage is in one "dumpster", and all of you guys can wallow around and have as much "fun" as you want in it. Ok?

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 22, 2001.

You stupid bitch.

I have posted a total number of two threads in the last 24 hours. Compared to Aint, Cherri, Lars and multiple posters I'm just a piker. Anyway, there are also multiple anti- Clinton/Bush/Christian/homo/abortion name your flavor-of-the-day posts here as well.

Go back to the hospital and get some more therapy you whacked out psycho freak.

-- (Truth@of the.day), March 22, 2001.


"Truth",

Sure -- lots of controversial subjects here -- which makes this place wonderfully rich and varied in its content; and, yes -- sometimes a subject on more than one thread at once. But most, if not all, of those posters are at least able to give reasons for, and argue their positions.

I regard it as particularly low, though, to trash someone on something over which he has no control -- e.g., the color of his skin.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 22, 2001.


Wallow is an appropriate verb to use to describe the actions of this cowardly pig. What human being with even a modicum of self- respect would verbally abuse another person in such a manor while hiding in the shadows? Must be rough to be you, anon, to feel the need to cut others down to your size, and to act upon that urge while under cover. Must leave you feeling quite small and impotent. You certainly appear that way to me.

Accountability isn't for the weak, or the porcine. Thanks for the reminder.

You had every right, anon, to tell Eve to go take a flying leap. To get personal with her was wrong. Dead wrong.

Hope you find help for your problem. Good luck.

-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), March 22, 2001.



It's time for your next electrotherapy shock. Now lie on the table like a good little girl while I stick this gag in your mouth. zzzzzzzttttttt! There, there. Feel better now? Are you lucid enough to understand yet?

I don't have to explain anything to you. Why are you such a control freak? I think we need to give you a couple more jolts. zzzttttt! zzzztttt!

I never heard you complain about mannys Indian rants. I never heard you complain about "Spics Suck (nohablaesp@nol.com)" post. YOU just become offended when we bash white men. I think you need to ask yourself a couple important questions here: "Why do you feel the need to defend white men? Do you like the taste of their boots?" You remind me of a stepford wife.

Tough shit you bitch. I can post a couple of white guy jokes and you can learn to enjoy them and come to understand the truth in them.

-- (Truth@of the .day), March 22, 2001.


eve I'd like to formally introduce you to rich if you haven't formally met yet. rich is looking for a nice white woman and it doesn't matter to him if you are psychotic or not. He is also psycho so the two of you pasty white trailer trash freaks should be very happy together. Please send me an wedding invitation.

I got another one for you.

Why are white men like popcorn?

-- (Truth@of the .day), March 22, 2001.


"Truth",

I don't recall seeing the "Spics Suck" or "Indian Rants" posts, but those sound just as bad.

Rich,

Thank you. :) So, tell me.....know any good trailer parks around for us?

And re "Truth"'s colorful diagnosis of me -- LOL! I can just hear the actual diagnosis (Boris Karloff plaing the doctor)..."I'm sorry, Eve...you may BELIEVE you're just here voluntarily for depression, but now -- and I hate to be the one to break this to you -- I've concluded you're actually a Whacked Out Psycho Freak."

"Quick -- Igor, take her to the padded cell to await the....heh heh....(smiles and rubs hands together gleefully)....experiments......."MWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA....."

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 22, 2001.


Sure Sure. You just "happened" to miss all the other bash posts. Seems you are not only clinically depressed, you have selective attention too___or else you jumped on the white boy thread trying to attract a white boy. Goal accomplished. I now pronounce you an rich man and wife.

Answer: They satisfy you, but only for a little while.

New Question:

What's easier to make: a snowman or a snowwoman?

-- (Truth@of the.day), March 22, 2001.


"Truth",

Although I regard all racism (and sexism) as evil, I may be a little more sensitive to the plight of the white male -- because, judging especially by the state of today's college campuses, racial preferences in job hiring and promotion, multiculturalism indoctrination, cultural relativism, trashing of "eurocentrism", etc. etc. that group appears to be the most oppressed in the civilized world.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 22, 2001.



Just as I figured. You are trolling for a white husband.

Good luck psycho!

Answer: A snowman because you have to take the time to hollow out the head.

New Question:

Why is psychoanalysis quicker for white men than for anyone else?

-- (Truth @of the.day), March 22, 2001.


Dear Truth,

Should we throw white, brown, or indigenous wild rice at the trailer park nuptials?

-- flora (***@__._), March 22, 2001.


Dear flora

Brown rice my dear! We can add a little Chaka Khan to set the mood and they be set!

Answer: When it's time to regress back to childhood, they're already there.

New Question: What is the difference between 30-40 year-old women and white 30-40 year-old men?

-- (Truth@of the .day), March 22, 2001.


Answer: Ovarian cancer statistics

-- flora (***@__._), March 22, 2001.

judging especially by the state of today's college campuses, racial preferences in job hiring and promotion, multiculturalism indoctrination, cultural relativism, trashing of "eurocentrism", etc. etc. that group appears to be the most oppressed in the civilized world.

Hmmm, that's going a little far, isn't it? I'd bet anything that every other ethno/sexual/racial group in existance would love to be as "oppressed" as us white males.

I definately have felt like I've been given the benefit of the doubt by police officers and human resource departments on occasion because of the way I look and present myself - both of which are do to my ethnicity and "white middle class" upbringing. I know there are white men who have claimed discrimination, but I think they tend to be the squeaky wheels heard 'round the world (mixing metaphors horribly.) Less heard of are the everyday incidents that help maintain the status quo.

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), March 22, 2001.



(To the tune of "Rocky")

We have an honest white man by the name of Bemused! Hip, Hip, Horray!

Bemused, my jokes don't apply to you. Feel free to skip my future posts.

eve, you're a dork.

-- (Truth@of the .day), March 22, 2001.


For truth

-- (MWAHAHAHAH@HHAHAA.AAA), March 22, 2001.

Bemused,

To take one example...

What about the higher-qualified lower class white who's denied admission at a university in order to admit an upper class black due to race? Isn't that racist discrimination -- and therefore wrong?

(The University of Michigan has two lawsuits against it right now that reflect this.)

"Truth",

You're very good at name-calling. How about trying an actual argument sometime? Don't be afraid...I won't bite; so you don't have to worry about getting any of those Whacked Out Psycho Freak cooties. :)

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 22, 2001.


I don't bother talking to skin-head women.

You should be attracting some more real winners to talk to soon with that smile phoney though! :)

I don't talk to skin-head women.

-- (Truth@of the.day), March 22, 2001.


I liked the snowman joke.

-- (sorry@but.I liked it), March 22, 2001.

I liked your first choice -

Chaka & Rufus' "Tell Me Something Good" - but let's save it for later on in the reception {since I've found from eve's test that I'm 'definitely a man!' of the female persuasion, I hate to rush these things}.

How about a promenade to Satchmo's "What A Wonderful Woild"?

Tell me true, Truth,

Do you think that a white male's attraction to nubile females is more an artifact of his race, the 'patriarchy', or a simple biological imperative?

PS - Are you sure they wanted to date a child, or be one?

{Deedah, I'm moving in on your Global Offender crown}.

-- flora (***@__._), March 22, 2001.


flora,

"Tell Me Something Good" is one of those songs that tempt me (no -- I don't actually do it) to start driving with my knees so's I can bang on the dashboard to it. That's why I love red lights sometimes, if there's a good song on. My '86 Accord's dash has a wonderfully sharp, snappy snare-drum quality to it. Then I get the bass drum sound by hitting it with the heel of my hand. What with my head and body movements and all (when I really get into a song), anyone looking on would think I'm a...a...a....(oh, God, np -- she's gonna say it again)...a...a...(all together, now folks):

......a "Whacked Out Psycho Freak!"

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 22, 2001.


Truth@ofthe.day sounds amazingly like Squak to me. He's throwing stones in glass houses when he talks about someone else needing meds. Maybe he should get back on his own and cut out the alcohol.

-- One Who Knows (that@squak.is.an.a$$hole), March 22, 2001.

flora,

I think they're just a race of boys who didn't mature. It must be something in their genes (lol, or jeans!).

-- (Truth@of the .day), March 22, 2001.


Eve,

I see you got the job of babysitting Hawk today. I have the job tomorrow. Saturday it is Cin's turn. Then on Sunday we will make out a new schedule. Any volunteers?

-- Dr. Pibb (dr.pibb@zdnetonebox.com), March 22, 2001.


“I don't talk to skin-head women.”

To tell the ‘Truth’ sir, I seriously doubt if you talk to ANY women. We had many such as you that roamed the streets of old Athens, seeking same sex companionship. Your anger at white males is the classic manifestation of these perverted dalliances and will result in progressive cranial deterioration.

In the meantime, we thank you for the cheap entertainment.

-- So (cr@t.es), March 22, 2001.


The thread about the horny moose is much better then this fucking one. You Mr. Truth are a bigger asshole than UNCLE BOOB.

-- Manny (No@dip.com), March 22, 2001.

Eve-

Got to go way on the other side of you on this one. You are entitled to your opinion, but your statement that white males are the most opressed class is just about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life-not just this board.

It is so hyperbolic, I will not waste my time debunking it. As a member of an opressed class, as you are, it is almost shocking. You must be an air sign or have an air moon-your ideals have created a cocoon for you which protects you from the truth-that the possibility of a libertarian ideal state somehow removes the history of genderism and bigotry, and it's current manifestations.

The oppression of the white male? Does anybody else really agree with this?

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), March 22, 2001.


Actually Mr. Shock sir, the white male population in the United States is experiencing the effects of a real ‘Future Shock’. The demographics in this country are dynamically shifting to an overwhelming non-white male majority, as we speak. If you believe in the concept of harmony among all men, then this should present few problems. If not, well…………

Future, are you a white male? Do you live in a large metropolitan area by chance? If so then my words must ring true…would you not agree? Do you reject this reality? If so, why?

-- So (cr@t.es), March 22, 2001.


1995-2025 U.S. Census projections

Size and Growth of Regions and States

*Over the next 30 years the West is projected to grow nearly twice the national average, while the Northeast and Midwest grow at one- half the U.S. total rate.

*During the late 1990's international migration is expected to play a dominant role in the population growth of the West, while both international and domestic migration will be important contributors to growth of the South.

*The South will continue to be the most populous region of the Nation during the next 30 years. The Midwest, the second most populated region in the Nation in 1995, switches places with the third most populated region, the West, by 2005.

*California, the most populous State, contained 12 percent of the Nation's population in 1995. By 2025, California is expected to have 15 percent of the Nation's population.

*From 1995 to 2025 California adds 17.7 million people (equivalent to nearly the current population of New York State).

*California is projected to add the largest number of international migrants (8 million). This would be more than one-third of the immigrants added to the Nation's population over the 30 year period.

*California is expected to be the fastest growing State from 1995 to 2025 (56 percent). The first eight of the fastest growing States are Western States.

*After 2015, Florida is projected to replace New York as the Nation's third most populous State, with Texas ranked second.

Race and Hispanic Origin Distribution[1] The White population, the largest of the five race/ethnic groups, is projected to be the slowest-growing among the groups during the 1995 to 2025 projection period. During this period, the White population is projected account for at least one-fifth of the absolute increase in the Nation's population in all regions except in the Northeast (where this group declines in size). Sixty-seven percent of the 16 million Whites added to the U.S. population will be located in the South.

*Over the 30 years, the Black population is projected to be the second slowest-growing in all regions, except the South where it will rank third. Sixty-four percent of the 12 million Blacks added to the United States during 1995 to 2025 will be in the South.

*The Asian population is the fastest-growing group in all regions. Asians are the fourth largest of the race and Hispanic origin groups in all regions except the West where they rank third. The Asian population is projected to have the greatest gains in the West with an increase of 7 million persons (56 percent of the total added to the U.S. Asian population during 1995 to 2025) and in the Northeast with an increase of 2 million.

*The American Indian population, the least populous group, is projected to be the third fastest-growing population in all regions but the South during 1995 to 2025 where it ranked fourth. Nearly half of the 0.8 million American Indians added to the Nation's American Indian population will be located in the West.

*The Hispanic origin population is projected to increase rapidly over the 1995 to 2025 projection period, accounting for 44 percent of the growth in the Nation's population (32 million Hispanics out of a total of 72 million persons added to the Nation's population). The Hispanic origin population is the second fastest-growing population, after Asians, in every region over the 30 year period.

*In 1995, States with the largest share of the Nation's Whites were California, New York, Texas, Pennsylvania, and Florida. Among these five States in 2025 only Texas and Florida are projected to have a larger share of the Nation's White population than in 1995 (compared to almost no change for California and decreases for New York and Pennsylvania).

*The State of New York, with nearly 3 million Blacks, had the largest share of the Nation's Black population (8 percent) in 1995. Other States with large shares of the Nation's Black population are Texas, California, Georgia, and Florida. Texas (after 2005), Georgia (after 2010), and Florida (after 2020) are expected to have the largest population gains among Blacks and to replace New York as the State with the largest share of the Nation's Black population.

*In 2025, California, with an expected 41 percent of the Nation's 21 million Asians, is expected to remain number one with the largest share, followed by New York, Hawaii, New Jersey, and Texas. Together these States will account for more than half of the Nation's Asian population in 2025.

*During 1995, Oklahoma had the largest share of the Nation's American Indians (257,000 or 13 percent). The other leading States with the largest proportion of the Nation's American Indian population in rank order are Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Alaska. By 2025, Oklahoma and Arizona still rank number one and two with the largest share of the Nation's American Indians. However, New Mexico moves ahead of California, and Washington moves up to be the fifth most populous State among American Indians. About 45 percent of the American Indian population is projected to reside in these five States by 2025.

*In 1995, 74 percent of the Nation's Hispanics resided in five States. California with 9 million had the largest share of the Nation's Hispanic population followed by Texas, New York, Florida, and Illinois. California's Hispanic population will more than double over the projection period (21 million and represents 36 percent of the total Hispanic population in 2025).

Six years later we see just how conservative these projections were. You need only to 'do the math'.

-- Just (the@real.facts), March 23, 2001.


Future Shock,

I gave (very brief) reasons for my position above. If you're not familiar with some of the concepts, issues or example I raised, I'll be happy to elaborate. If you are -- well, give me an argument.

Dr. Pibb,

Wow -- I didn't realize it was Hawk. Anyway...so when does your shift start? The bottle's being heated up now, it's way past 7:00, and I still don't see a car pulling up. (Eve looks out the window, impatiently, then back at her watch)

Hawk/"Truth",

Please stay calm. The above is just light-hearted ribbing, now. I hope it doesn't set you off again.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 23, 2001.


Eve, you cite two anomalous "events" (the only reason they're "news" is BECAUSE they're "anomalous"), yet no mention of the thousands of cases wherein unqualified white males were promoted, given jobs, bonuses, housing, "breaks", etc. over qualified black males.

Nor do you mention the thousands (more?) of cases wherein unqualified white males were promoted, given jobs, bonuses, housing, "breaks", etc. over qualified women.

And, BTW, all of this STILL happens, despite the alleged "advancement" of society. My company comes to mind here. I'm STILL making $.72 to every dollar an equally-qualified white male is making. Actually, in my company, it's even less than that. Apparently, "qualifications" are irrelevant; you have to have that little thing swinging between your legs in order to get fair compensation. And to make this even MORE "interesting", would you like to guess who gets all the "typing" and "meeting coordination" and various other secretarial-like duties in my group, despite never having been a "secretary" in twenty-plus years?

I don't ask for special consideration; never have. I just want equal consideration in line with my qualifications, capabilities, skills, etc. I have over twenty years of practical business experience; business experience that transcends any one specific industry and can be (and has been) utilized in a variety of industries. Yet, white men who have considerably less experience than I do, in ANY industry, have been hired in the same position as I am at almost twice the salary (more, in at least one case). And not one of them is EVER asked to "type" something or "set up a meeting". NOT ONE.

I find it somewhat incomprehensible that you'd take the position of defending a group that is notorious for stacking the deck against others. And if (big "IF" there) the white male IS being discriminated against in favor of those whom he's "oppressed" all these years, well, don't expect any sympathy from me. I will instead laugh in their faces; now they get to feel what so many of us have felt since time began. Oddly enough, I don't necessarily feel all that great about it, either.

Just waiting for that "reverse discrimination" (sic) to reach Las Vegas.....

-- (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), March 23, 2001.


Eve,

What about the higher-qualified lower class white who's denied admission at a university in order to admit an upper class black due to race? Isn't that racist discrimination -- and therefore wrong?

Many people would say it isn't wrong. I think the argument there is that the selection happened based on race, but there is justification for it; basically, the end result will be a higher standard of living for blacks, which has no one disputes has enormous benefits for society (crime reduction, economic upturns in inner cities, higher tax revenue in historically low tax areas, etc, etc.)

Do I agree with this "end justifies the means" argument? I don't think so. We have to work towards that end, but not by enforcing admittance quotas. There are other ways to do it.

But your example really illustrates my original point - The number of white males refused admittance to a university because they were "bumped" by a black person is so small compared to the number of black people who suffer day-to-day discrimination that it's just ludicrous to say white males are "the most oppressed in the civilized world."

I don't see how you think that statement holds up.... If I didn't know you better, eve, I'd say you had your fishing line in the water and your trolling motor running. :^)

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), March 23, 2001.


You're right, Bemused. The Whacked Out Psycho Freak is trolling. She's trolling for a white husband (in the fishing sense of the word.)

Question: Why did God make a white man first?

-- (Truth@of the .day), March 23, 2001.


“Just waiting for that "reverse discrimination" (sic) to reach Las Vegas.....”

My Dear Ms. Patricia. Best wishes to you for an abnormally long life.

-- So (cr@t.es), March 23, 2001.


Patricia and Bemused,

Patricia, your concerns are very valid, and I’m sorry to see you have to go through this. But then the question is – what can we do about it?

The only fair ways I see are through boycott, protest, education, social ostricism, running for office, and the like.

But y'all want to punish innocents? And while laughing in their faces? PLEASE think about the implications of this.

People are individuals, and once you start denying them their individuality it becomes easy to start punishing an innocent for something someone else did. During “krystalnacht” the Nazis rounded up and killed many Jews because a Jew had killed a Nazi. And I don’t think they were even particularly interested in finding the perpetrator – because they saw all the Jews as equally interchangeable scum. In other words, they weren't really people.

And I’m dead serious about all this. And I say this especially because the oppression – the racist discrimination -- has become once again institutionalized. Through racial quotas/preference programs covering college admissions, job hiring and promotions, indoctrination of of multiculturalism in schools – all the way down to the elementary level (the doctrine that all cultures are equal except for that of the evil white male oppressors), etc. Oh, it's not as obvious at the lower grade levels. But check out the campuses nowadays.

Do you think that individuals in a group are interchangeable – such that if a black kills a white in the year 1700 we should take a black life today? No? Well, how about if a black was discriminated against in the year 1950 in a public university admission program – should your own son be turned down for that coveted public university that he busted his brains out to qualify for – to “make up for it”? (Say the program was the only one of its kind.) I guess that's ok with you. In degree the two examples are very different. But in principle, do you see a similarity? Could you look your son in the eye while you try to justify this?

Patricia – would you feel all this “satisfaction” (didn’t you say you’d laugh in the white males’ faces? I would hope you wouldn’t laugh in Doc’s face) if Doc was turned down for a promotion at work that he spent his life working towards, so that a less qualified “minority” could get it?

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 23, 2001.


I invoke Godwin's law on Eve.

Also, any argument that can't stand without comparing your opponent to the Nazis is a faulty argument.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), March 23, 2001.


My Dear Eve, I must tell you how much I admire your words of wisdom and grasp of reality. I fear that your learned experience will be lost on many of this forums participants but stay well and comment often.

-- So (cr@t.es), March 23, 2001.

Eve, did you miss the part wherein I wrote, Oddly enough, I don't necessarily feel all that great about it...? So where do you derive "satisfaction" from that? I meant it; I really DON'T believe "two wrongs make a right", FWIW.

That said, you state, People are individuals, and once you start denying them their individuality it becomes easy to start punishing an innocent for something someone else did.. No arguments with that, but that's pretty much what YOU'RE doing in defending white males against "oppression" (which is actually the crumbling of their status quo; tsk, tsk). You're not taking this case-by-case, either; from your words, it seems that you would just as soon have that unqualifed white male get ahead in order to "reverse" affirmative action which you feel is discrimination. (And I don't completely disagree that affirmative action IS discrimination, either.)

Six of one.....

Please don't lecture me on "the implications" of laughing in someone's face; I've had it done to me a good chunk of my life in one form or another and while AGAIN I don't think "two wrongs make a right" or "the end justifies the means" and I don't feel particularly "good" about it (enough qualifiers there?), you'll forgive my less-than-stellar motivation in wanting to be able to (FINALLY) say, "IT'S ABOUT DAMN TIME".

Of course, I'm still waiting to say that.

So (cr@t.es) *dude*, I'm not holding my breath.....

-- (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), March 23, 2001.


Obviously

-- So (cr@t.es), March 23, 2001.

Tarzan,

Yes, I invoked the Nazis. But read on...you see, I gave a REASON. If you don't agree with my reasoning, please refrain from sniping and give me an argument.

Socrates,

Thank you for your kind words.

Patricia,

I'm sorry if I mischaracterized you. Thanks for clarifying.

But you said,

[...it seems that you would just as soon have that unqualifed white male get ahead in order to "reverse" affirmative action which you feel is discrimination.]

Where did you get THIS from? I want to ELIMINATE discrimination -- not pile more on top of what we had or have already. I thought I made this clear. And re Affirmative Action -- I would just eliminate the discriminatory part -- the preference programs. I'm ok with the outreach programs.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 23, 2001.


eve, the shock treatments aren't working. I guess we're just going to have to perform a lobotomy. It shouldn't take long though. You don't have too many brains to remove.

You say you want to eliminate discrimination. If that were true, you wouldn't have jumped in at the top of this thread and said white men were the most discriminated class. THAT statement was discriminating in itself.

I'm about done banging on white men. Hopefully they have read our posts and know how their attitudes affect us. If you get a moment, check out "Why White Guys Have All The Luck " in the "white male jokes are sexist" thread. I wasn't the original writer so there are a lot of people who think the same way...they just won't say it to a white male's face.

Good luck finding a husband.

You're going to need it.

-- (Truth@of the.moment), March 23, 2001.


"Truth",

White males ARE the most discriminated against; at least officially and institutionally. In private life today -- I don't really know for sure. The stories I hear go both ways. Do you have any statistics or studies?

If you still don't get my drift, please reread everything I wrote on this thread. Then give me an argument. If you're not sure how to start one, just read Patricia's and Bemused's posts. It can be informal -- just like those. Come on -- I think you can do it.

Oh yes...your excuse -- I mean your "reason" why you never wanted to discuss this with me directly, was that you said you don't argue with "skin-head women." (sigh) So, never mind, then.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 23, 2001.


Of course I have statistics! I know you won't accept them though because you live in a dream world.

Although this is a waste of my time, here you go:

White males are NOT discriminated against more than others. They just whine more.

Polls increasingly report that whites, and particularly white men, believe that there is more discrimination today against white men than any other group. Yet 1990 census data establishes that women and racial minorities continue to suffer from substantial race and gender- based differentials in income and opportunities; in many areas for African

Americans and Latinos things are getting worse. A Latina woman with a college degree earns less, on average, than a white man with only a high school diploma. A black male college graduate earns less than 80% as much as his white male counterpart. Over 50% of black children, compared to under 15% of white children, live in poverty.

Discrimination based on race and/or sex is just as illegal when the victim is a white male, but in a recent survey of 3,000 employment discrimination cases reported over the past ten years by the federal courts, only 100 involved sex and/or race discrimination claims by white men, and only six of those claims were found valid. In audits conducted in San Diego, Chicago and Washington D.C., when matched teams of job seekers responded to want ads, whites were far more likely to receive job offers than were equally qualified blacks and Latinos. The American labor market is 45% white males, but over 95% of the top management of our largest corporations are white men. Banks are twice as likely to reject loan applications by black customers compared with equally credit-qualified white applicants.

-- (Truth@of the .moment), March 23, 2001.


Eve-

Out of the literally millions of examples you could have chosen to show that human being occasionally judge and treat a group of human beings based on the past behavior of a few members of their group, you chose to use the most lurid, and least applicable (after all, no one has ever dragged white men en masse into the streets to beat or kill them). I personally believe you did this to not-so subtly demonize your opponents, either that, or you really consider equal opportunity to be the equivalent of the Holocaust. In either case the end result is the trivialization of a dark and painful episode of history. For shame.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), March 23, 2001.


Wonderful! THANK you, "Truth"! I'll be back atcha after I've had a chance to look at these materials.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 23, 2001.

Tarzan,

There's a common thread here -- a PRINCIPLE of injustice involved, where innocents are punished. Yes, I used an extreme example -- but I wanted to illustrate principle in a dramatic way. Patricia and Bemused seem to understand the tie-in even though they disagreed with some aspects of this overall issue.

Think about this for a while and it should come clear. If not, just come back at me again and I'll be happy to give you some examples that aren't so upsetting for you to have to read. But I guess you're aware of millions of examples already. So -- I guess I'm not clear -- do we actually agree, then?

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 23, 2001.


This thread is taking too long to load. Can we start another thread with a clean slate? I promise I won't post any more jokes or call anyone names.

I'm serious about this eve. Your statement that white men are the most discriminated bunch is something that needs to be debunked.

How about you start your rebuttal on another thread?

-- (Truth@of the.moment), March 23, 2001.


"Truth,"

I'd be happy to do that -- it's just that it's getting to where I have to get some work done for a while, and you just offered up some meaty stuff. So, either you or someone else should feel free to start it for now, or I'll try to be back later on today, tonight or tomorrow, and get it goin'.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 23, 2001.


No problem. Take as much time as you want, there's no big hurry. Discrimination has been going on a long time so if we discuss it for the next month (or years) it won't matter.

-- (Truth@of the.moment), March 23, 2001.

eve I just thought about it some more. I don't want to discuss this anymore because I've never seen anyone change their mind around here (Including myself). I can post my sources and you can post your sources and neither one of us are going to change our minds.

I'm on record with my opinions and you're on record with yours. Let's leave it at that.

-- (Truth@of the.moment), March 23, 2001.


Truth,

I just poked in here for the one last time before I REALLY TRY to go offline for awhile. I couldn't resist -- dontcha know? :)

I promise I won't burden you with "sources". Primarily only reason and logic, examples, analogies -- that sort of stuff. And I'll try to have an open mind about it. And if you or someone can refute me - - well, losing a good debate is in a way even more fun for me than winning it, because I'll have learned something in the process. Besides, I really never have any regrets in any endeavor if I know I've done my best.

Yet, if you wish to leave the discussion, that's cool.

Still, I'd like to review and respond to your post with the link, because I think everyone can be enlightened from a discussion like this -- of course, including myself.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 23, 2001.


OK that would be fine. I'm going on a long weekend though, so I'll get back with you on Wednesday.

-- (Truth@of the .moment), March 23, 2001.

Tarzan is right, it is a waste of time to keep posting to a board of white-bread NAZI's listening to Rusch Limabuger on KKKLOQ AM.

-- dudesy (dudesy@37.com), March 23, 2001.

Truth,

My responses on your ACLU link...(if I missed something you feel is important, feel free to assert it and I'll be glad to take it up)

[(per the Supreme Court), “…Before such an affirmative action remedy may be adopted there must be considerable evidence of continuing discrimination against the group receiving the affirmative action remedy.]

So, in other words, discrimination against individuals of one group to “remedy” previous discrimination against individuals of another group is perfectly fine. And, of course, as we all know, this policy is invoked only against white males. Thank you for showing us this official policy condoning discrimination.

Re the statistics...

Hmmm...I wonder why these "social scientists" never cared to find out what the differences were with respect to (immigrant) Finns vs. (immigrant) Italians vs. someone who’s never left Iowa. I guess all whites are assumed to be the same – interchangeable. If they have the same skin color – then of course they have to think alike, feel alike, discriminate alike, conspire alike, ARE alike. Well, if such assumptions aren't racist -- what are they?

In any case, assuming those statistics are true, AND represent racism, this is unfortunate. And, as I said before, I’m for any remedy that doesn’t punish innocent people.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 24, 2001.


This thread is now continued on the new one titled...

(Outrageous Claims Dept.) Are white males the most oppressed group in the civilized world? - Part II

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), March 24, 2001.


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