Hi, I've reading this forum(every day), it helped me making decisions to build my first M system(M6 TTL plus 2 lenses). Now I just bought a used Leica CL outfit for backup system, haven't got a chance to do some serious testing, but just found some issues with focusing when trying the same lens on both bodies. The lenses I swapped between two bodies are 50mm Summicron and 40mm. I tried to focus the same object using one body(M6), then change the lens to another body(CL), but I need to adjust focusing from CL's rangefinder, seems to me CL's distance reading from Lens is not accurate.

ex. I focus an object at 5m, from M6, using both 40mm and 50mm, it always reads 5m, but using CL, it always gives me 4m.

from my understanding, the lens should have a consistence distance reading from body to body. does this apply to Leica rangefinders?

any experience with this? hope this is normal.

Thanks. Fred

-- Fred O. (yo5454@yahoo.com), March 21, 2001

Answers

Have you checked the CL at infinity with a very distant object to see if the rangefinder is in calibration? It may be off, which will show up as the double image not coming quite in allignment with the lens focused at infinity while sighting an object several hundred yards away. Sounds like the camera may be front focusing, and this would mean when looking at a distant object, the double image would line up before infinty is reached on the lens distance scale. It can be adjusted to put it back to spec if this is the case, or many of your shots will end up slighty out of focus if this is what's going on and you don't get it repaired.

The other thing is that the CL has a very short rangefinder base and is not as accurate a focuser as the M cameras. This makes it more difficult to get a repeatable distance when focusing on the same object from the same distance.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), March 21, 2001.

Fred

One or other of the Ms is not adjusted correctly. You an only tell which one by looking at the results. The CL is certainly harder to focus but the distances should agree. A priori one might expect the 40mm to show some focus shift from CL to R (if it was the original Summicron-C) due to the steep cam issue, but the 50s should certainly coincide. You need to get one or other of them fixed.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), March 22, 2001.

You may check the accuracy of M vs CL by focusing on an object, at 5M--- MEASURED WITH A TAPE --- then compare the readings from M vs CL, which ever reads 5M or close is accurate, and the other is misaligned, needs recalibration.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), March 22, 2001.

The only result I'd trust would be the result on film. I'd check two things: first, make sure that all lenses on all cameras the rangefinder lines up perfectly on some two-mile-away object when the lenses are turned against the stop at infinity. IF that's OK (and if it's not, something needs adjustment--probably one of the cameras will stick out as wrong) then I'd go to the next step, which is shooting a piece of newspaper laid flat on a table, from about four feet away at an angle as you would normally see the paper standing four feet away. Put a coin in the middle and focus on that with the lens wide-open, and then when you get the film back use a magnifier and make sure the band of type passing through the coin is the sharpest, not something in front or in back of the coin. If that's OK, then everything's OK. I'm guessing that what really might be happening is that the 40 is OK on the CL, but not the M6, and everything else is OK. This is a possible but not inevitable problem with differences in the way lenses were constructed for the CL.

The bottom line, of course, which this test is for, is that whatever happens with the numerical scale, that's not as important as the pictures being in focus, right?

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), March 22, 2001.

Hi, thanks everyone.

Just got back the first roll. As Andrew stated, CL's rangefinder is "front focused", so the only way to get a decent sharpness pic is to step down. But that kind of kills the idea being a Leica- low light with lens wide open shots.

I tried to seach LUG last night, amazingly rangefinder accuracy is a big issue for Leica's quality control, even saw some new M6TTL users had focusing in-accurate rangefinder when brought home a new $2K camera.

Guess I'm lucky, my other expensive RF cameras are OK. I know it's about precision technology, people can't expect too much to this highly-skilled machinery, but Leica somehow disappoints me reading all the complaints about Leica rangefinder.

I'm working in an industry(semiconductor/IC), precision means 1x10(exp-9) meter, but the final product sold for $1 to $1000 depends on the amount. We can't find excuse saying this(precision, or QC) is tough to achieve like Leica explains to people.

Fred

-- Fred O. (yo5454@yahoo.com), March 22, 2001.

Well, the nice thing about rangefinders is that they're made to be adjusted, once you figure out that they need it, so now all you have to do is get it adjusted, and you'll be fine. As with most anything that has the capability to be adjusted, that capability is the indication that this sometimes needs to be done. Imagine how you'd feel if you discovered it was off, but it had to stay that way forever because there was no way to fix it :-)

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), March 22, 2001.

I believe the CL was last available in the mid seventies. I do not think that the fact it now needs an adjustment (actually more probably a full CLA) is indicative of poor quality control, poor initial quality or poor design. I have an M2 form 1960 which is still a great camera. It has had to be CLAed several times and I have had a number of updates done to it as well. The fact that it is still working perfectly, is still completely repairable and is still fully supported by the factory, is without precedent in the camera world.

I also have an M6-TTL that required a rangefinder vertical adjustment after my darling daughter dropped it three feet onto pavement. It hit so hard it bounced! I do not consider this a failure; except, perhaps, on my part with regard to daughter's upbringing. Leica repaired it under warranty.

Great camera, stunning lenses and good service.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@home.com), March 23, 2001.

Well, after playing with my CL I found out that my M5 rangefinder is a bit out of wack. It won't quite focus to infinity. What can I say, it's now 30 years old being the 339th M5 ever made and still has the L seal - but now for long as the slow shutter speeds are living up to their name - their slow.

-- mark ackermann (mramra@qwest.net), March 24, 2001.