Can this be just ?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread
I will try and put this as briefly as possible. I was married in 1970 in a Roman Catholic cermony to my wife who was a convert. There were two children born to us before my wife left me for another man in 1975. She filed for a divorce on the grounds that our marriage was irretrievably broken down and we were divorced in 1978. I continued to attend Holy Mass and receive the Sacraments. In 1979 I met a Catholic girl and in 1981 we settled down to-gether living as man and wife. We understood then and now that according to the teachings of the church, we could not receive the Sacraments.A beautiful daughter was born to us in 1990 and we have raised her as a Catholic. It hurts us so much when we have to remain seated at Mass and watch her go up to receive the Holy Eucharist alone. My partner and I are both from strong Catholic Family backgrounds and the love and support we receive from them is boundless. We pray that some day, we will be accepted fully into the arms of the Catholic Church. Please pray with us.
-- Brian (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 18, 2001
Yes, indeed, Brian, we shall pray for you.
I shall pray for several things, one of which is that you will be willing to make an appointment with the pastor of the church where your daughter receives Holy Communion. Explain the entire situation to him and ask him to begin the process of referring your case to the diocesan marriage tribunal, so that they may determine whether or not the Church can issue a Decree of Nullity.
If issued, the decree would state that one or more impediments existed on your wedding day, making it impossible for you and your ex-wife to enter into a valid, sacramental marriage. If the decree is issued, you and your current partner will be able to celebrate the Catholic Sacrament of Marriage, and you both will be able to receive the Sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Communion with your daughter.
Jesus is calling you. Do not delay even one day more.
God bless you.
PS: You entitled this thread, "Can this be just?" Under the current circumstances (without the effort I have asked you to undertake), I would say that there appears to be an element of justice and an element of injustice. The injustice appears to have been done by your ex-wife in being unfaithful to you. The justice is in your inability to receive the sacraments -- because Jesus himself told us that divorce followed by "remarriage" is a serious moral wrong ... and Jesus is incapable of injustice.
PPS: If, before or after visiting your pastor, you would like to read about the "nullity" process (often informally called "annulment" [a word the use of which I discourage]), here is one site that has a lot of information.
-- J. F. Gecik (email@example.com), March 18, 2001.
Brian I'm sorry, I'm not catholic and therefor probably shouldn't even be posting on this board, as I don't know all the "laws" and "rules" of catholism, but I thought that Jesus died and rose again to wash us clean of our sins. Which means you've been forgiven, and become a new creation in his eyes, does it not? Why is the church still treating you as a sinner? and why must you go thru all these rules and rituals in order to receive "forgiveness" and be able to take communion or whatever the "Holy Eucharist" is? Christ said this is my blood, this is my body - take and eat - he didn't say - take a class - never sin, pray 10 times a day - and if you do sin - we'll treat you like an outsider - and you can't share in the glory of my love so I don't understand this.
JESUS said - in Matthew 5:31-33 the following 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. 33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" Let me ask this. If Jesus was willing to forgive divorce in the case of adultery and fornication - why can't the Catholic church?
Another Example of Biblical redemption in the case of unbelievers was Paul writing to the church of Corinth :
1 Corinthians 7:15 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
So I simply do not understand why the church has these rules when your first wife clearly was either not a believer, or was in fornication w/another man.
-- Kisha Johnson (Sunflower.firstname.lastname@example.org), November 18, 2002.
You seem to read the Bible. Since you see certain passages from a personal point of view, you feel you know every absolute conclusion. There's no more to be said.
Nothing you find in it says there isn't MORE to learn. Our Lord founded His Church in order that all Christians ''return to the source'', or find out 2,000 years hence, exactly what the apostles taught as the Word of God-- both written (scriptural) and Traditional. If a verse in the Bible seems to say divorce is permitted under a particular condition; do you think the Apostles could tell the Church what that condition is? We do.
You ask: ''Why is the Church still treating you as a sinner?''
No, Kisha-- the church means we must be LAWFULLY married, in order to receive the sacraments worthily. Here you see, it isn't a case of ''treating like a sinner'', but requiring the couple have a VALID marriage or not receive them. Sin can be forgiven quite easily, if a sinner repents. Then, he/she is welcome to receive the Eucharist.
But divorced couples must make a new marriage VALID and recognised by the Church (It's Jesus Christ's own Church--) before they'll be welcome back to the regular life of the faith. We treat the marriage contract (a holy sacrament) with very great respect. Divorce is simply not an option in the Catholic Church. Don't let your loose interpretation of the scripture delude you. Christ was clear: ''What God has joined together, let no man put asunder.'' You marry until death parts you from your spouse.
-- eugene c. chavez (email@example.com), November 18, 2002.
Your reply to Kisha, Gene, was excellent -- except for one small error (or perhaps incomplete statement). I thought I should clarify this for Kisha.
You wrote: "Divorce is simply not an option in the Catholic Church." [By this, I assume that you mean, "Divorce is simply not an option for a married Catholic person."]
Actually, divorce is permissible for a Catholic (i.e., not considered sinful) under extraordinary circumstances. But "remarriage" after a valid marriage and a divorce is the thing that "is simply not an option" for a Catholic. [A Church marriage tribunal will not even begin to consider the validity/nullity of a marriage until a divorce has occurred.]
God bless you.
PS: Kisha, trying to interpret the Bible privately, has misjudged the meaning of Matthew 5:32 (the "except" clause). I hope that she will find one of the threads on which this is explained in detail.
-- J. F. Gecik (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 21, 2002.
Well, ''option'' was meant as the strict sense of the word; leave a husband or wife and re-marry in the Church again. This is no option till a marriage is declared null by the Church. I was trying to keep it simple.
I wonder if Kisha came back to read our replies?
-- eugene c. chavez (email@example.com), November 21, 2002.