Update on contact printing panoramic negative

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Thanks for the information on contact printing old panoramic negative. Got it down to a 7.5 watt bulb, 5.5 feet above the neg. Used some saran type bowl covers as filters, comes in several colors. Made some difference in contrast on the Kodak poly paper. Problem now is waves in the negs. They are quite thick material, and glass doesn't smooth them enough. Was suggested I re-wet them and dry between Kodak blotter paper. Have one neg I use for handling so I don't ruin the better ones, but still reluctant to take the water "plunge" Advice?

-- Rusty Tews (tewsranch@pmt.org), March 18, 2001

Answers

Well, my first bit of advice, is don't do it! That said, how old are these negs?, By "waves in the negs", are you implying that it looks like they're buckled? Like the base may be shrinking, and the emulsion is being stretched? Do they have a vinegar like odor, or are they sticky feeling? Depending on the age of the film, and the type of base material, you could do some real damage if you were to rewet it. My advice would be to try to contact a local/state historical agency for advice, or if you're really intent upon experimenting, make the best copy (either a contact print or a duplicate neg.) of the negative as it is, BEFORE you do anything to it. Here's a quickie type test you can do (if the film is really old, for sheet film this would be pre 1939 or so, amateur roll film pre 1950, and aerial film pre 1949, as a rough timeline for NITRATE base film) short of actually burning the film base. If the film doesn't say SAFETY FILM on it someplace (not all do), if it feels sticky, or brittle, you can sometimes fold over a corner. Safety film will just bend over, but Nitrate film will often break apart. If it's nitrate base, do not rewet it. This will probably destroy the neg. I'm not sure of the film bases & sizes for the banquet cameras, or cirkut cameras, so I really suggest checking with a professional conservator if you want some solid advice. If you're stumped by all this, feel free to email me, I may be able to point you in the right direction. One other thing, if you can find an old contact printer with a platen, and a hinged lid, and multiple bulbs--these are great for contact printing large negs. And making dupes as well. Good luck.

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), March 19, 2001.

Oh yeah, of course with advice always comes a DISCLAIMER. In regard to NITRATE film, I am not implying that you should do a burn test yourself, nitrate base film decomposes in a pretty hazardous way--both to your health, and for other photo materials stored in the vicinity. So, please do not do this, and if you suspect that your film is old nitrate base, you really should consult with a professional conservator/archivist in regards to just general storage, and duplication.

If it's really curled, or "wavy", you probably don't want to force it more than you have to anyways. Good luck, and as I said take care.

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), March 19, 2001.


Rusty, I went back and checked your previous post where you said these negs were from the "teens and twenties". If this is the case, then DO NOT REWET THEM.

Just about all film prior to the mid 20's was on Nitrate. If your film is showing any signs of decay, i.e. buckling, bubbles forming, yellowing of the base, strong odor, sticky feeling, brittleness, etc...you need to consider seeking out some professional advice. An 8x20 in. sheet of film has alot of nitrate in it, while this probably is not going to spontaneously combust (does happen with large quantities of nitrate film/right conditions), you need to REMOVE these from where your other negs. are stored. Don't seal them up in any kind of sleeves, they need to be able to gas off. Don't get them hot, keep them cool & dry...do not keep them in any sort of sealed container. The best advice I can give you here is to contact a state archive (or some sort of state records/local archive) if you want to try to keep these. Alot of people will tell you the best thing to do is to dupe the negs ASAP, and then destroy the originals. I have a small personal collection of about 500 nitrate negs (small roll film negs), that I keep isolated as far as possible from my other negs. I store them in acid/lignin free BUFFERED envelopes, and let them "breathe". I'm also duping them, because they will continue to break down...

Either way, if you have alot of these, you should seek out professional help. If you tell me the state where you live, I may be able to point you in the right direction.

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), March 19, 2001.


Gez, you got me spooked now! Do I have an un-detonated bomb on my hands? The emulsion seems to be sound and there is no odor, or apparent deterioration. Not brittle either. Maybe I'm wrong on the age, but not by more than a decade. I just bent one of the corners and it feels like old plastic, didn't break. The waves are more like heat buckles, and only away from the edges. I printed a few and the image is very clear in the areas I can get good contact with the paper. Thanks Rusty

-- Rusty Tews (tewsranch@pmt.org), March 19, 2001.

Well, if it doesn't say "Safety" somewhere along the edge, and it was made in the first part of the 20th century....there's a chance that it's nitrate. There are really only a few options, if it's a plastic base. The other bet would be early safety base film, some form of cellulose acetate, which can shrink & buckle too, but at least it's not flammable...if you get enough nitrate film, close it up so it can't gas off, get it hot enough, this is like a time bomb...have you ever heard of motion picture film spontaneously combusting? Nitrate is considered sort of a "problem child" for collections...if you just have a few sheets, I wouldn't worry too much. Just isolate it, keep it cool & dry, copy it, and keep a good eye on it. Safety based sheet films sort of started in the mid to late 20s, then mostly in the late 30's, early 40's. Kodak is really the only manufacturer who has published their production years, so if it's some other manufacturer, who knows?? The safety based stuff can shrink (the base) and the emulsion can wrinkle, and buckle. Sorry if I sounded frantic there, but I was only trying to save you from doing something you might regret. At any rate, unless you know what you're doing, it's always a good idea to just leave old negs & prints alone, in regards to cleaning them, or restoring them. Always make the best copy you can before touching them...

Here, these are a few good websites if you want to do some homework on this stuff. First try the Image Permanence Institute, and download their "Storage Guide to Acetate Film": http://www.rit.edu/~661www1/ Then try the Northeast Document Conservation Center: http://www.nedcc.org/nitrate.htm Last, but not least, are the great 'Conserve-o-Grams" from the National Park Service: http://www.cr.nps.gov/csd/publications/conserveogram/cons_toc.html

Sorry, I'm not too savvy with the HTML code to make these work right away, but you'll get some good info from these sites. I still think you should contact a local/state archive for advice if you have alot of these. The problem I see you having is two-fold. Whichever base material they're on, they will break down over time. And then, it's just the physical size of a neg. that big. It's going to be hard to store it right, and hard to duplicate it. From your description, it sounds like safety base, but Nitrate can wrinkle like that too, as I said, you might want to find some help...even if it's sending an email to the Library of Congress FAQ page. Good luck.

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), March 20, 2001.



One other thing, and then I'll leave you alone...if it is the base that is shrinking, assuming when you say it looks like "heat buckles away from the edges"...in my mind I see a base shrinking, but maybe it's something else (hard to say if you can't see it...), okay, if it's the base, then you won't be able to physically flatten it out. You'll just have to live with it, in fact it means now is the time to get a copy out of it. There is a method that a professional conservator could do, that invloves chemically stripping the emulsion away from a base, and floating it (or stripping) onto a new film base. But, like I said, that's a big negative...and this process is not foolproof either. I'm all "doom & gloom" here I guess, but good luck anyways...

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), March 20, 2001.

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