We have recently moved to Missouri and we have something people call Hedge Apple here also known as osage oranges....are these good for anything??? We were told not to burn it in our wood furnace because it burns too hot and that cows died when they get them stuck in their throats...ok so if I can't use it for heat and it is going to mung up my livestock---- just what good are these trees aside from wildlife harboring........and if that is the case I would rather plant other more friendly trees...but then if I rip them out what do I do with them?.......any knowledge of this would be greatly appreciated.

-- Storybook Farm (mumaw@socket.net), March 18, 2001

Answers

I've been told that hedge aples are good to put in corners of you house or basement to keep spiders away. I've also read that the trees are the best wood for fires because they're really hard.

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), March 18, 2001.

Whoever told you not to use them for firewood was, at the very least misinformed. It is excellent.

Fence posts made from osage orange, reportedly last 25 years or more.

This tree was the choice wood for making bows (by the indians, and they lost).

Pioneers brought this tree with them to a new homestead because they liked it for a fencerow tree.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), March 18, 2001.

Never heard of a cow trying to eat a hedge apple. Gpa had a few head on land that had them along the fence line. the only thing i ever saw eat them was squirrels. they would tear them up to get to the seeds on the inside.

-- MikeinKS (mhonk@oz-online.net), March 18, 2001.

The wood is second only to cypress in longevity when in contact with the soil. They make excellent fence posts and corner posts under houses. In fact, in the South there were areas where the banks would not finance a house unless it was built on bois d'arc posts. Bois d'arc is the third name for Osage orange or hedge apples. They also make excellent living fences, and the seeds brought high prices before the invention of barbed wire. They are native to an area along the border of Southeastern Oklahoma, Southwestern Arkansas, Northeastern Texas, and Northwestern Louisiana, and have been exported literally all over the world.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), March 18, 2001.

If the dried fruit isn't too heavy, I'd like you to ship me some - I'll pay postage. I've got a zillion spiders and osage orange doesn't grow up here. Email me if you want to ship me some. Thanks!

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), March 18, 2001.

The natural wood has been in high demand in recent years for rustic furniture making, including recycling old fence posts into stools, benches, etc., and are getting a really high price at the places I have seen them offered for sale. In addition to being a great fencing material, they have some promise as a good cash crop on that front, if you can locate the people who want it.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), March 18, 2001.

I have lots of osage orange tree on my little 3.5 acres right here in Danville, Indiana. The wood is excellent for fencing and home heating it's a slow burning wood. But I've also have heard that it's helps to keep rats and mice out of your house as well. When you cut up a tree for fencing or fire or whatever, it's easier to cut it when it green rather than seasoned, because it is extremely hard wood to cut with the chain saw (it dulls the blade quickly).

-- David Cripe (cripeland@aol.com), March 18, 2001.

A little more info: We have been told by two different "experts" that Hedge Apple burns extreamly HOT and will acctualy melt your furnace. We were hoping that was wrong because we have 5 acres of them.

-- Storybook Farm (mumaw@socket.com), March 18, 2001.

The bad rap:

King Heaters, Nothing but a round tin, Tin Stove. Yes, they will melt down. After one or two seasons they were real fire hazards. They are no longer available, as too many novice (fools) blame the instrument, not their mode of operation.

Any stove which is over fueled and over draft will have a red hot melt down.

Hedge gets a real bad rap from the work involve in cutting for fuel. A wood lot operator wants to take down a furniture grade oak for fuel and is too much a kitty cat to work in hedge.

Hedge doesn't come easy, it's tough hard, kickin and a scratchin all the way. Very few have the grit to work in or with hedge. One of the newer myths is.."Boy, it sure tears up a chain saw". That is pure bull..Green wood is what your cutting. And green or season, Hedge will burn. You can not get that from the other sappy trees.

I have customers and friends who burn hedge because that is the only way they can keep the home warm. Oak and Hickory won't give them enough heat.

You wish to save fuel or money? Burn your hedge. Put a couple of old soggy elm sticks or green oak with a few hedge sticks. You don't have to fire up with all of one kind of fire wood.

Hedge apple can be fed to live stock in a pinch, But you have to chop them apples same as mangels, cabbage or turnips. You should keep the cattle away from them when the big apples are fallin. I have never had an animal choke on one but they sure do pop when the cows set they jaws on one.

Hedge Fence Post, I sell straight 10 or 12 inch diameter, 9 feet long for $2.00 a foot. A cord of firewood is $100.00 and you pick it up.

You just move to Missouri or any other place and you are going to homestead, The first thing you should do is plant fence post! Build those fences. Next plant the fruit trees and garden. Worry about planting the wood lot last.

Hope this is the answer to some of your question. I am in Missouri and I have three hedge trees down now. Good help is welcome anytime.

-- JR (jr3star@earthlink.net), March 18, 2001.

hedge is wonderful its all i burn i have a 30 something year old j c penny stove just make sure its air tight. i dont have a damper in the pipe. and dont go off and leave the front open. it sparks alot when you first put it in the fire. Bob se.ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@hit.net), March 19, 2001.

Osage Orange, aka Hedge Apple are my absolute favorite tree. They demand respect with those imposing thorns. They were used for all the above reasons listed. There was a thread on these trees on this forum quite a while back.

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003kkS

-- R. (thor610@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

I spin wool and dye it. Osage orange sawdust makes a pretty orang-y dye; the color varies with differednt mordants. Folks sell it at fiber shows for historic home-dying enthusiasts!

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), March 19, 2001.

OH Yes, the root is the best for dye. When I push a tree over with the track loader there is enough exposed root to make a lot of dye. Now I wonder if it, the root, can be peeled and bagged for use at a later time. Hum...A market for that?

I bet a pair of home spun and dyed wool made into a pair of top rollover boot sock would command a hefty price of $50 to $60 or more.

-- JR (jr3star@earthlink.net), March 19, 2001.

Welcome to Missouri from a Knsas person. You will hear all kinds of stories about the wonderful "Hedge tree". In and around southeast Kansas, most woodburners want the wood for their stove. If you are into carving, it is a beautiful color and very hard wood. If you are putting up fences, it can't be beat for fence posts. It is a very hardy tree and grows into a gorgeous knarly old tree that appeals to tree-huggers like me. I have never heard of a cow eating and choking on one but you can starve an animal into almost anything. The cattle around here(and we have lots of cattle) do not eat them. I would tell you to enjoy the trees, burn them in your wood stove, use them for fence posts and I love the carved wood.

-- karen (kansasgoats@iwon.com), March 20, 2001.

When I was little, the first time I saw one my cousin (full size adult) told me they were snake eggs and when they turn pale green like that they were about to hatch. Needless to say, I didn't go down to the lake for a LONG time!! He also heard about it years later when I discovered his little prank. (Family, gotta love 'em!)

The squirrels around here love to eat the seed in winter, but boy howdy, what a mess! Cats like to chase them too, just be careful where you're pitchin'!

-- Ladybug (sklukas@mail.state.tn.us), March 20, 2001.

They are excellent for keeping bugs out of places, and small rodents too, but not rats, sorry! Also, if trimmed (which is a VERY unappealing job) they are great for keeping just about everything out of the yard. They can be turned into hedges like the suburban honeysuckle, and with those two to three inch thorns are a great living fence. Plus, skeeters don't like the smell either, so strategically placed, they are great for bug control in general.

BTW - if you still want to get rid of them, be sure. They are about the hardest plant in the world to kill.... Taking out the main root won't help - they just grow back like short thick bushes.

Side note - Native Americans used to use the thorns for needles and awls.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), March 20, 2001.

Hedge Apples are very easy to start from seed. I have about a dozen in pots I started about 3 years ago. Here are instructions and information that were sent to me:

"For those who wish to grow hedge from seed, I offer the following information based on my years of reading, observations and three growing seasons of hedge seedling production in my Southern lowa garden.

"First (for those inclined to plant the whole ball) A hedge "apple" or ball is not a single seed like a black walnut. Each ball contains many seeds (well over 50 in each ball). Each hedge seed is about half the size of a muskmelon seed. The seed from a grocery sack full of hedge balls will provide enough seeds to produce seedlings to plant one quarter mile of true hedge fence (the pruned type).

"Collect your hedge balls after they fall from the trees you like (like begets like). Selecting the seed trees is the most fun for me . It is the choice that influences the eventual growth pattern your trees will exhibit. It is worth your time to be chosey. Besides, it is an excellent excuse to walk around looking at trees'

"I collect my seed in early November. This ensures the hedge balls are on the ground (mature) and not yet consumed by squirrels and cattle. I store them in doubled plastic grocery bags which also are my collection bags. I knot the bags shut, place them outside in permanent shade (the north side of my garage), and cover them with a thin layer of cut tall grass for insulation against rapid freezing and thawing. The freezing and thawing of the winter softens the hard hedge balls into a sticky mush (this is good).

"At the spring thaw, I put the mush from one grocery bag full of hedge balls into a clean, white, 5 gallon pail; mash (Be Gentle, you will be forcing the hedge seeds to spit out of the ball remnants) the semi- solid balls into a real mush with a heavy stick; add some water, stir and mash; stir and add more water to the brim; let it set a minute and decant about two thirds (pour off the sticky yellow green water and ball pieces; refill with water, stir, let set and decant 2/3; repeat as necessary until the decanted water is clear and no ball pieces remain; the clean hedge seed remains on the bottom of the pail. I pour the seed onto an old window screen to strain out the extra water; pick out any stems and nonseed debris; and gently scrape the cleaned seed unto thick newspapers to dry in a layer that is one to two seeds deep. I find the seed will dry in one night on the floor under my wood stove if I place it on dry paper when I retire. Note: you do not want to parch it, just dry it in a warm place. I examine the seed the next day for dryness. It will generally retain enough stickyness in the wet form to glue the dry seed into a mass which I can easily break apart with my fingers. I break the seeds apart (they flow readily thru my fingers) and place them in a paper sack to store on a shelf in my home to be planted in early May. I have found that the seed extraction as stated herein will remove about two thirds of the seeds from the hedge balls. If you need more, reclaim the decanted hedge ball chunks and hand squeeze the remaining seeds out into the bucket for decanting as above. I do this and have extracted a double handful of dry hedge seeds from a single grocery sack of hedge balls.

"I liberally sow the hedge seeds (at corn planting time) on raised beds in my garden using eight inch wide rows running across the bed to produce many short rows. During the growing season, I hand weed two heavy flushes of garden weeds and then isolated weeds after the hedge trees close over the short rows. I thin the trees to one for every three inches of row. Weekly watering to provide one inch equivalent of rain will push the hedge trees to transplant size within one season of growth. My goal is to produce hedge trees approximately 18 inches tall with a ground stem diameter of 3/16 inch with a carrot type tap root that provides stored plant food for next season's growth.

"Additional information: Hedge tree seedlings have two seed cotyledon leaves which emerge and look like an apple seedling. Hedge seedlings are extremely drought resistant. They will stop growing but not die. Hedge seedlings have a one season dominant apical meristem. They will keep growing in height without developing side branches. Only damage to the top bud will force the seedling to branch out. I have grown two which became five feet whips before a killing frost stopped their growth. The killing frost stops growth, destroys the apical meristem and ensures a rather bushy tree during the second season of growth.

"I have not had much luck in reproducing hedge from cuttings although I have read that people have done it. Guess I have not devoted enough energy to cuttings.

"Those of us that grow and harvest hedge are a strange lot. We know from experience that the wicked thorns will poke us. Still, we continue. The tree has a certain charm but the wood... I have made it into beautiful walking staffs and canes. Others have used it for bows to cast arrows. But most is productively put into service as posts. Osage orange is the most rot resistant fence post wood known to this region. And if you must burn this prized wood, it will produce more heat and ash per unit volume than any other common tree growing here (more than shagbark hickory ). Just take care that you burn it in a good stove with working dampers. Hedge holds water that will explode burning embers across your room if it not contained in a good stove. A person should not load the stove with all hedge unless you have had experience with it. The heat that can be generated is amazing to those that have burned only dead elm. A late evening stove load of hedge will burn down to a self bankng bed of embers due to its high ash content.

"Hedge will survive on poor soils; thrive on good soils; withstand grazing by cattle; but will die from lack of sunlight when it is overshadowed by adjacent trees. Let the sun shine on your hedge!!!"

-- R. (thor610@yahoo.com), March 22, 2001.

The greatest wood ever grown for alround use if I have scrapes from post old or new I like to cook with it. I have a CHUCK WAGON and there is no wood to compare, hickory my be close real close but bois arc will grow any place in the sun it was planted to help stop the the dirty 30s if any body remembers those days. Makes good handles bows and many other uses. But a cow can choke on an apple or even cactus.

-- coaltrain (arthurinss@yahoo.com), March 23, 2001.

It does burn hot, but it burns long, so it's my favorite overnight wood. Just throw a fresh load in on a good bed of coals, shut down the dampers, and it will burn slowly all night, and still be going strong in the morning. Be careful about disturbing the hot coals in the morning though, they spark like firecrackers.

-- Connie (Connie@lunehaven.com), March 24, 2001.

I LIVE IN BATON ROUGE, LOUISIANA. COULD ANYONE TELL ME WHERE I CAN BUY SOME OASGE FENCE POST? ALSO, ARE THERE ANY READERS WITHIN THE LOUISIANA AREA THAT HAVE SEEN SOME OF THE TREES. I HAVE SEEN JUST A FEW. NOT MANY IN MY IMMEDIATE AREA FOR SOME REASON. THANKS FOR ANY FEEDBACK. MARK (MARK26MDA56@HOTMAIL.COM)

-- mark atkinson (mark26mda56@hotmail.com), March 26, 2001.

Save your money on 'hedge balls' marketed as spider repellents Grocery store produce aisles feature a lot of products that are good for you, but lately a number of them across the state are selling "hedge balls," which will lighten your wallet but won't repel spiders as the promoters claim, according to University of Minnesota Extension Service experts in horticulture and entomology.

Deb Brown, extension horticulturist, explains that hedge balls are also known as Osage oranges, the tough, inedible orange fruit from thorny trees that are not native to this area. They are being promoted as spider repellents, but Brown says there is no evidence that they do anything to keep spiders from invading your home.

"There's no magic bullet to control spiders in the home," says Jeff Hahn, extension entomologist. "At certain times of the year, homeowners see more spiders and become concerned about control. In a few more weeks as the weather becomes colder, we won't see them as often."

He adds that spider control in the home begins outdoors. Caulking and sealing any nooks or crannies that spiders could use to get inside is a start. Keep grass and weeds mowed around the house. Remove piles of wood, stones or brush around the foundation because they can shelter spiders and allow them easier access to the indoors, he says.

"Few spiders in this area do any harm to people," Hahn says. "Most are not aggressive. If they do attempt to bite, their mouth parts are too weak to penetrate human skin." He says the best indoor control measures include knocking down spider webs and removing or crushing spider egg sacs when you see them in basements or other parts of the home. "It's possible to treat spiders with insecticides, but just spraying the foundation of a house to prevent entry won't help," Hahn says. "To be effective, the spray must get into tiny foundation cracks and spaces under siding where the spiders hide. That's difficult for a homeowner to do."

Extension has two helpful publications on spiders. Potentially Dangerous Spiders (item number FS-6962) and Common Spiders In and Around Homes (item number FO-1033) are available at county extension offices or through the Distribution Center on the University's St. Paul campus. Phone 612-624-4900 within the Twin Cities or 800-876- 8636 toll-free outside the metro area for ordering information. Both publications are available on the World Wide Web as well. Go to extension's home page www.extension.umn.edu and search the catalog option at the bottom of the page using either key words or the item numbers above.

# # # Deb Brown and Jeff Hahn are faculty members in the College of Agricultural, Food and Envronmental Sciences.

Web, V4,V5,V6 NAG99-2472

Source: Deb Brown, (612) 624-7491, Jeff Hahn, (612) 624-4977 Writer: Deedee Nagy, Communications, (612) 625- 0288, dnagy@extension.umn.edu

-- Heather (tropicfire2@yahoo.com), September 16, 2001.

We have hedge posts for sale. All variety of sizes and widths. Located in central Missouri. 660-827-2728

-- Cynthia Dawson (cdawson@iland.net), November 15, 2001.