Today, I listened to Dubya’s radio address, read the Senate version of the bankruptcy bill and the House version of the tax cut. It set up a yearning in me. I went out and bought a locally grown fresh turkey. I roasted it. It made a good meal. What are your thoughts? What do you want to roast?

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 17, 2001

Answers

By the way, I forgot this. I heard an economist talking about privatizing SS. He said that over a 20 y period stocks always out perform other forms of investment. The talking heads never ask the following question: "who retires over a 20 y period". If you are retiring this year, you are up the Flint River without a paddle.

Cheers,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 17, 2001.

Bullshit Z!

If you are retiring this year then according to your formula you began investing 20 years ago, thus, you're still way up.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

Bullshit Unk:

I started investing more that 20 y ago; Note; I don't need this stuff, my pension plan alone pays me more that 75% of salary and includes med and dental. I am not up all that much with the stocks. I sold MS when Paul did at about 125. Don't tell me that there isn't inside info.

In 1988, I bought a Leica rangefinder system. Because of my job, I haven't had much time to use it. It is now worth, used, at a minimum, 4x what I paid for it. I have a, nearly new and unused, Deardorff 8 x 10 that I bought in 1977 for 25 dollars with a 300 mm lens [covering the 8 x 10 format with shifts]. It is now worth many thousands with the attachments that were part of the deal. Those are investments.

Just went through the files. Investment in the market was not a good move. Many folks are going to find the same thing. But, keep up the dream.

Cheers,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 17, 2001.

OK Z,

What was the Dow 20 years ago, and what is it today?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

OK Unk:

What was a dollar worth 20 y ago and what is it worth now. You might add; what was a Leica M worth 20 y ago and what is it worth now.

Cheers,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 17, 2001.

So why didn't you buy 50 Leicas?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

Unk:

I am amazed. You quote the DOW. S &P would be better but not perfect.

I now expect you to become a gold bug. Another Andy perchance.

Cheers,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 17, 2001.

Oh, BTW,

Z,

I love turkey, and can eat turkey sandwiches every single day for weeks without food boredom setting in. Turkey is just ducky.

Best wishes back at ya,

Unk

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

Unk:

So why didn't you buy 50 Leicas? -- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

Unk, you must not know much about the field. Just getting one can be a chore.

Still, tell me, where did you invest that produced this enormous wealth.

Cheers,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.ocm), March 17, 2001.

Pork bellies

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

Z:

My understanding is that the government has been taking my SS money away from me, by force, for my entire working career. This is "enforced savings" for my retirement, much safer than letting me do something stupid like invest it where I might lose it.

And the government has spent most of it paying retirees who put in far less than they're getting back, and spending the leftover on general operating expenses. This is "safer" for my money, right? And when I retire, then-current workers won't be able to support me. My "savings" never existed, yet I am not permitted to stop "investing". What a system!

Of course, we will adjust incrementally, as we always do. There is plenty to increment -- reduce the payout, increase the retirement age, inpose 90% tax rates on the noyt-yet-retired and wonder why revenues go down, print money, whatever.

Maybe some people will be irresponsible if they are permitted to invest their retirement money themselves. But they COULD NOT DO WORSE than the government is doing for them right now.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 17, 2001.

Flint:

Looks like the beginning of a flight away from the market.

Futures

What do you think?

Cheers,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 18, 2001.

Every time I listen to Dumbya speak, I get the urge have a pig roast.

-- lord of the flies (one of these days @ we're gonna get. that pig), March 18, 2001.

Flint:

If you would like press confirmation of BB's data, go here:

Where is the money going

This isn't a matter of philosophy but one of facts. I have no clue as to what the markets will do.

Cheers,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 18, 2001.

Flint--

It's not "enforced savings". It's enforced transfer payments. The Gov takes your money and gives it to me. Thank you very much.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), March 18, 2001.

Lars:

Yes, I'm aware that I'm saving absolutely nothing out of my social security contributions, and not allowed to stop making them either. So you better make damn interesting posts, y'hear? If I were only permitted to do so, I could *retire* on what I'm paying you to make those posts.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 18, 2001.

Flint:

It was very nice of you to reply to Lars. That kind of courtesy is why you are so well liked here.

But you haven't replied to the BB data and how that effects the things being discussed. I am interested in your view.

Cheers,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 18, 2001.

Z:

I'm not sure what kind of response you are looking for. All I know to say is that some investments have been doing much better than others, as always (although the pattern changes). Meanwhile, giving it to the government is like pissing it down the toilet, and worse than ANY investment I could make in the market.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 18, 2001.

Flint:

No: Giving it to the government means that some will comeback and benefit me. This is opposed to giving it to a CEO who knows how to spend money but not how to make it. Who trusts the private sector anymore.

Seems to me that is what the data is saying. We will see.

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 18, 2001.

Z:

Are you saying that if this payroll tax was not withheld, that private companies would reduce salaries and increase profits by 15%? This strikes me as unlikely. But how else does the CEO get to keep it? At the very least, I could put it in T-bills, right?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 18, 2001.

Flint:

I, simply, have no idea what you are talking about. Just follow the BB data.

Cheers,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 18, 2001.

Z:

I have no idea what you are asking. I don't feel like guessing any more. Follow which data? Follow it where and how?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 18, 2001.

Whatsa matta flint?

Stupefyingly dumb?

Cin must be contagious

-- (blah@blah.blah), March 18, 2001.

B B King

-- (Lucille@Beale.Street), March 19, 2001.