Huchison....

Toon fan.Commited.Hard working. Versatile.Scores goals.OK can be a tad nasty at times. Price 2mil

Bassedas. Untested in Europe. Non English speaking. Not a current international. Price 4mil

Isnt the policy of 'must be good people' taking this a bit far

or am I missing something

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2001

Answers

You are right In midfield you always need british players I cant understand BR wanting to buy forign rubbish Hutchinson is a better centeral midfielder than any of our players and at £2m he was a snip for the mackems

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2001

You actually understate the position Arriana: Hutchinson is a better m/f player than all our m/f players combined - and he's a Geordie.

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2001

We should have tried to swap Goma for Lee Clark .

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2001

Seen from afar, this is really depressing. Come on, lads, get it sorted for we foreigners.

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2001

We seriously need a group of 5 or 6 good regional technical, hard working, positive, footballers (all toon fans) at this club to bring in a settled local culture, WE ARE DESPERATE FOR IT. If Mr Robson had this group half his job in motivation could be done for him. Would Lee Clark(has great interpersonal skills apparently), Hutchinson(look at his face when he scores, loves winning more than any bugger, shame his talent is wasted), Jansen, Stone, Bridges et al, let other players feel relaxed and content about their responsibilities?

A dominant local NUFC supporting playing culture, is part of the us - with this they are one of the lads,'not a gaffer' and equal to each player at the club, they shape the right attitudes of the rest by setting the values (sub-conciously by bonding) to which players of foriegn decent WILL listen too more easily (in essance Johhny foreigner will want to be one of the playing generation, nothing else, he will eventually bleed the club when cut), which is much more smarter and effective than if Bobby or Freddie talk down with authority.

If the club had this culture, the players could then teach our carefully selected foriegn (and our up and coming talented farmed youths) players the values, instead of the foreign stars making their own money driven values (nowt wrang with making money, as long as you dont bite the hand that feeds you) against a club they were not born to support.

And the sad thing is, if we dont get this we could be in biggish trouble come next year, thats if we are not to get sucked in to the dog fight this year...................

But at least we have about 30MILLION to spend next year, HOWAY THE LADS...............................................

AS SOMEONE ALWAYS SAYS ON ANOTHER MESSAGE BOARD,

NUFC WE ARE THE PEOPLE

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2001

30 million to spend - on who? Who will want to join when Solano and Dyer leave? Who will want to join a club with fantastic support and a 52,000 stadium? If they don't want to join now, when will they?

As clarky has been pointing out for weeks now - if this was an 'ordinary' industry, the board would've been forced out months or even years ago. I can manage better than this rabble. no ambition. shambolic.

depressed and on me way out for more beers...

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2001

Min - I'm just in from "more beers" and I'm still depressed. But I was only drinking American beers. Good luck mate. Bliddy good job the Tyne Bridge is still in Newcastle and we're not.

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

T.Smith,

I actually agree with your premise. I don't know whether or why we are that much different from other clubs, but I really do feel we need a Toon that has a strong local bias in the playing squad to create/sustain the right culture.
I suspect it's not dissimilar to the situation that exists at Barcelona (the Catalan thing) or Bilboa (the Basque thing).

I'm not sure SJH's dream of a team full of Geordies is achievable these days, but as a long-term, say 10 year goal - why not? If we could get a really successful Youth Academy up and running, it really could become a reality, and if we only finished up with say 6 or 7 Geordies in the team that's not so bad is it?

Let's face it, if we had been just a little wiser, even today we could have Steve Harper, Steve Watson, Robbie Elliott, Lee Clark, Alan Thompson in the squad to go alongside Aaron Hughes, Steve Caldwell, Shola Ameobi, and of course Alan Shearer. I'm not saying we should buy Geordies just for the sake of it, but it's also perfectly feasible that we could also have had Don Hutchinson, Steve Stone, Matt Jansen, Michael Bridges and Michael Carrick in the squad at this time. That is, 14 Geordies and in-house developed players forming the basis of what would a very tidy squad.

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

Min, if this was an ordinary industry, quite a few of the players would have been forced out ages ago. If you worked in a factory and simply did nothing all day, you'd be sacked.

If you play for NUFC and your name is Marcelino however, you get pampered.

How about Carrick for a midfielder to buy?

West Ham have played more than most below them and have only 35 points. It's not an impossibility that they could be involved in a relegation battle this year. I've always thought Harry Redknapp mustn't be that good a manager if he hasn't won anything with the team he has at West Ham yet. Nice man, but not a top manager.

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

Why do we seem to believe that having a squad full of Geordies would bring us success. Our three time cup winning side included a number of Geordies, but Harvey wasn't, Brennan wasn't, Mitchell wasn't and Robledo wasn't -- and they played their hearts out for the club. Going back into ancient history -- the most successful team Newcastle ever fielded was composed almost entirely of Scotsmen. And we have had some Geordies like Waddle and Gascoigne who couldn't to get away. This is a game played by mercenaries -- we just don't have the right mercenaries. We have a squad of overpriced, overpaid, underperforming mediocrities. We have a board in which we and the city have little confidence we have an infrastrucure on a par with both. What we do have is a large but increasingly disillusioned following and a magnificent stadium. We have to face up to the fact that if the current players and management have so far shown an inability to attain success, the chances of them succeeding in the future are non -existent.

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

Floridian,

NOTE: A squad with a strong nucleus of toon supporting 'QUALITY' footballers would be benificial. Not every player has to be a toon fan, we know we may not have that amount of quality.

1. They support the club, thus like us they would put in an extra 10% always.

2. When the going gets tough -like it does with every club now and then- foreigners are more likely to hide(marcelino 'finger nail pain,' Glass 'what injury do I have this week,' or Domi 'I'll look elsewhere to save face'), a quality footballer who is a geordie or a player brought up supporting United (Hutchinson, Clark, Bridges, Carrick, Stone, the veteran scot John Collins) will fight to make sure 'his club comes right,' they will also as I mentioned earlier fuse these good values on to players brought up not supporting the club better than any gaffer can (even the gaffers with the charisma of Bobby, or Kevin), by proactively setting the dominant work force culture.

In the trenches in WW2 did you want a Hitler youth fighting for Britain alongside you, or an English speaking nation commarde (SP?) member from Britain, Australia, USA, Canasa who shared your values etc.??? Quite simple really Floridian.

Barceloma, Liverpool, Man Utd, Juventus, Roma make sure they have players who can fit automatically in to their club values(they also have the foreign super stars, I may add), which they make damn sure if a player is good enough and has supported their club from a child, he starts his career at his club. Guardiola, Beckham, Scholes, Owen, Mcmannamanaman, Gerrad..........

Ajax, look what happened when they 'had to' get rid of the quality local culture in the mid 90's...........

Have we went down hill since the release of Clarky, the retirement of Beardsley the loss of Carrick, Stone, the missing out of Hutchinson and Janssen? Quality local players who have been replaced quality 'mercenaries' Maric, Goma, Domi and Glass etc... Is there any coincidence????

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Clarky,

The John Hall idea of 11 geordies would not make sense anyway even if it was achievable, every worldly big club needs a few superstars. It really does make a little sense financially, to capture your populations imagination, in only the way a Brazilian number 10 can.

I strongly believe we are both 100% right with regards to the cultural balance of the playing squad. I'll even go as far to say our opinions on this subject have been proven over he last 3 years.

Is it me being cynical, what would you rather have, a quality young player who supports the club you're managing (which makes your job a little easier with regards to switching players on), or a player with a suspect quality reputation from abroad for more money???

Which brings me the question that has been pissing me off a long time why did Kenny D. really refuse to buy Matt Janssen(a Newcastle fan brought up in our local catchment radius)?? Kenny must of known of the importants of 'quality' players who support the club??? Did he?? I guess we will never find out!

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

What did Stephen Glass ever do to you? Poor bastard got a great and successful run in the side under Gullit and had his leg broken while playing for us. Robson doesn't fancy him and leaves him playing week in and week out for the reserves and leaves him on the bench while he plays Gallacher on the left. How that equates with foreign mercenaries doing as little as possible beats me....unless you know something we don't, in which case please enlighten me. I'm all ears. we've just had a some shadowy rumour about a problem between Glass and Wadsworth (know which one I think has more to offer us) but the whisperer never came back with the details so it's smoke without a fire for now.

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

Glass, Three starts from the Off , 2 goals , so basic

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

When I was a kid, a little wee kid , I wpould sit in the classroom and instead of paying attention to the teacher I would pick football teams, 11 players starting with the letter B for instance (no subs in those far off days), teams consisting of 11 Geordies, it is just a game folks, thats all, looks good on paper but does not take into account any other circumstances , for example we get Rivaldo but to make up our football quotas we swop him to Celtic for Alan Thompson.

Gone are the day`s when it is alleged you can shout down a pit shaft and up comes a purpose built Geordie center forward , Floridean is so correct and if you follow the Toon`s history over the years the influence of the Celt in our team has coincided with our best years. Did not call it a business plan in those days but Shanks on taking over at Liverpool realised that the club required an infusion of Celt , the will to win, the combatative streak , one of the players Joey Jones (Welshman) on his own admittance was probably one of the worst left backs in the league, cult hero on the Kop as he gave 120% each game . The only decent South American we had was George Robledo , only cos he was inducted at Barnsley by Skinner Normanton. Digressing somewhat , 11 Geordies , back to the old hoary chestnut oft discussed on here , what and who constitutes a Geordie, within one year we will be off down the Jackie Charlton and Craig Broon route of lets get Stevey Gerrard , his granny was originally from Two Ball Lonnen but moved to Liverpool in the 60`s to be near the pop revolution, as I began keep it for pub quizzes,pie in the sky.

On the return of Doug , no problems with that , recognises things are going pear shaped , makes an individual statement to the media, means nothing to me , mind you if he on his return had liased with the board and thro the chair had listed a statement "Newcastle Utd - The Way Ahead " I would have been more enamoured . As it is we are all clutching straws again instead of referring to a policy set out by the people running the club . Like politiceans they will not committ themselves , this is what managers are supposed to do aint it, or am I brainwashed working with the oil majors for twenty years ,who when things are going well still bring in a policy , give it a trendy name ex CRINE = Cost Reduction in the New Era , and then screw and downsize the workforce.

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

When Mr Ruud left I had the temerity to suggest that we should consider the appointment of Mr Primate Head. The argument for this was that he seemed to be quite succesful in building and maintaining an effective squad on a very threadbare shoestring.

Of course I was shouted down. Dismissed outright. Questioning the established orthodoxy. Not to mention heresy. Treason. Etcetera. Worse than shagging the queen mother - with the lights on! (End of Buff stream of consciousness)

But in retrospect I'd be happy to hear what the informed members of this site have to say now.

Just before you start on the spirited defence and the inevitable denials, remind me when we last won a game. It was this season, wasn't it?

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

Toon expat - thank you for your spiritual enlightenment, but this is afterall a football club and not a Cathedral.

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

Buff,

Agree entirely with your comments on Mr. Hall's re- emergence.

Ref the "team of Geordies" I respectfully disagree.
There are some very cogent arguments in favour of such a policy earlier on this very thread. The only argument I've seem against seems to be "it's never been done before". So what? That doesn't mean it isn't desirable, at least directionally.

My real argument here is for a high priority to be given to in-house development of our players, such that within a reasonable period the majority of the first team squad would be thus. In truth this is a commercial necessity anyway.

I would like to think a goodly proportion of the in-house talent would actually be Geordies, or at least be steeped in the local culture, understanding and feeling the passion of the area and its fans. Beyond that of course, we would never preclude bringing in the odd external star - and no one has ever said that would be a requirement.

What on earth is so fundamentally flawed with such a suggested policy? Take a good look at the 14 man squad I outlined in an earlier post - a squad that we could very easily have had, and well within the vast sums of money we have wasted in recent years - is that not an infinitely better squad than the one presently masquerading as Newcastle United?

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

also, there's a lot to be said for the 'everyone hates us and we don't care' seige mentality. At least, if you're SAF there is. As i said a few weeks ago, what is it that makes us so......apologetic?

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

Clarky, In answer to your last post and in main the last para, let me say I do not need to re-read any of your posts , I take them in first time and inwardly digest , ok that`s the sucking up part done. Yes it is a decent squad , Yes it is better than what we have, is it good enough to win the European CL >>No, The UEFA Cup >>No , The EPL >>No, Top 6 >>good chance , but I as a supporter of Newcastle Utd set my sights high now and I am not content with second best , I am a pot- hunter, if you are winning pots the rest just follows.

Team of Geordies, hmm , the only way I can express my views is to draw on my past experiences , when I moved up here in 81 I was asked within 6months to coach/manage the local football team, all lads from the village who in there previous 10 year existence had won diddly squat, not much money, very little support. I took stock after a barren first year , it was a pretty busy period at work construction wise , 15-20 guys most week starting. The first thing I would say to these travelling workers when I gave them a safety induction "Anyone of you guys play Football", recruited a few players this way, players of a decent standard from Glasgow, Ayrshire , we then had a ten year run, winning the league 5 times, numerous cups , the touchline was full of supporters, plenty of good nights. Then came the night of the long knives , due at first to some locals not getting a game a rival team was started in the village, same park , same league ,we were both fighting for the same funds, same players , at times it got messy. Other teams in the League voted them in because obviously that weakened my team, in the next 5 years none of us won a thing , they folded , we carried on mainly cos we have a strong committee. At 51 I felt I had lost it , and with work committments packed the managers job in ,moving to the dizzy heights of chairman/sec. My successor (ex-capt) has been in charge now for 6-7 years ,winning nothing , playing local players, This I feel will change this year , 2nd in League, 2 cup -finals ,LOCAL PLAYERS COME IN CYCLES, Also a successfull under 16`s, under 14`s , 45 primary kids and 12 to 14 girl

Looking between the lines Clarky there appears to be a wee bit of Keegan >>>>Dagleish in there !!!! In the pub ex-supporters still talk about the good nights when we were the people, in your opinion Clark`y which path do you think is the correct one , mine or my successors?, If your grandchild could not get a game for a North Shields team cos of incomers, how would you feel ,funny old game

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2001

Okay my turn :0)

Basically when it gets down to it we all just want to have a successful side. We may have differing views on what successful actually means from Buffs world club championship to others any trophy and Europe regularly.

There is not a single answer to the question otherwise everyone would have spotted it by now. The thing you have to be is either the best at implementing the answer, or the one hwo spots the next wave coming and has a plan of how to ride it.

(As an aside McFaul was simply years ahead of the game in 1988 when we got relegated. He tried to play an unheard 3 centre halves with wing backs. I don't know where he had seen it but it was at that time revolutionary. His problem was that although it may well have been a great idea he didn't really know how it was supposed to work. He had the three centre halves in Scott, Thorn and Peter Jackson, he just hadn't worked out how the wing backs were supposed to play. So in McFaul's case he had spotted the next wave coming but didn't really know how to ride it).

We have had a go at the Keegan way. It very nearly brought us a trophy, something that lots of us have never had to be worried about before. I am loathe to criticise those days because otherwise my supporting days would have seen their pinnacle when we finished 5th under Lee/Dinnis in 1977, relegated the next year, or 8th in 1987, releagted the next year. Keegan may not have left a great future for us but he is the only manager who we've had who has left anything to smile about. This was the money bags, buy in players approach. This didn't win anything so then we swing the other way (calm down Gav).

If money can't buy success then it must be youth, and Geordie youth at that. Well no not really. In its purest sense this has the limitations that Bilbao have no ability to add to your gene pool. Barca while being desirous of local players always buy the biggest names, and always have from Cruyff thro Maradonna to Rivaldo.

Man U keep getting plaudits for their youth policy. It is good but I'd guess they have spent more money than anyone else. Pallister was the most expecnisve defender at the time he was bought. Keane was record signing. They tried to buy Shearer. Yorke, Stam, Van Nistlerooy, Barthez all huge amounts of money.

There is never a single right way, it has to be a blend of all those options available.

At the moment we are limited to buying cos of neglect of youth area by previous/current custodians of the club. This summer even with the GDP of an African country as a transfer fund we couldn't produce a dozen Geordies ready for the side for next year.

What is missing, as ever, is recognised by us all. Whether it is Clarky wanting a business plan, or Buff wanting meaningful commits, it is a lack of good management skills. Where is target setting, where is accountability, where is the growth in your area, where is proof of having best of breed in each area, where are we innovative, where is the plan, challenge the status quo, deliver.

-- Anonymous, March 19, 2001

Buff,

Could I just say again that I'm not advocating we play only with Geordies. I'm talking about setting a long-term objective of ensuring the majority of our players are produced in- house - within the ranks of which I would expect the majority to be Geordies.

Pondering your question - you achieved success, so within that time horizon you were right.
Individual's can achieve success through dint of their own charisma/personality/drive/ambition/......Although he didn't actually win anything at the Toon, KK was a case in point - and I suspect your successes were down to this also. However, longer-term success requires a system that provides continuity, that is not based solely on the charisma of one person.

Barcelona have been driven to success on the back of the aspirations of the Catalans. I happen to believe that the Geordie race has similar characteristics, to the Catalans and that this identity and individualism could be used judiciciously to drive the Toon forward.

Liverpool have a similar mentality, and they have always had a strong Scouse presence in their squad, and still do today even under Houillier's guidance.

Again what I want to see is a hugely successful Youth Academy delivering a stream of good players, the majority of which I would expect to be locals. These would be supplemented, but only as necessary, by outside top-quality players - in the way SAF has done at Manure.

-- Anonymous, March 19, 2001