I've had this idea rattling away in my head for a while, with regard to the issue of reinstalling terraces, incorporating 'singing' sections and allowing people the freedom to sit/stand where they want to each week at the match. Tell me what you think.

First of all.....forget bringing back the terraces. I was brought up on the old Gallowgate corner and loved it, but that was then and this is now. Terraces are ugly, pretty dangerous and belong in the past. What we need though is a system which recreates the best bits of what life on the terraces was like, ie.. 1)People being able to be with their mates in whatever part of the stand they like. 2)Being able to be next to like minded people, ie those who want to sing all the time. 3)Going to the ground early to get your cherished place in the stand and creating a pre-match atmosphere. 4) The choice to be in a different place in the stand each week.

I believe football clubs could achieve these 4 things whilst keeping the all seater stadiums and forgeting about the terraces ever making a comeback. Here's how...taking NUFC as an example.

First of all the club declares the whole of the Gallowgate end as a section to accomodate fans who wish to be extremely vocal throughout the whole match, ie those who start all of the singing and are generally vociferous no matter what the score might be. The very fact that the club are recognizing that these people exist would be a major factor. The Gallowgate end holds approximately 11000 seats and we could easily fill it with these kind of people.

The second objective of this all new singing section is to allow people to sit where ever they wish to within it, and with their mates all sitting together too. This can be achieved by 'dividing' the whole of the stand into sections which can only be accessed by a particular turnstile. At present there are 3 tiers on the Gallowgate end. As an example lets split each tier into 4 sections. Each section is filled directly from a certain turnstile(s). When you arrive at the stadium you give your season ticket/match ticket stub to the turnstile operator and he gives you a ticket for a designated seat in the stand within the section which that turnstile controls. The system works on a first come first served basis and are distributed one after the other, ie if the section holds seat numbers 1 to 2000 then if you get seat no. 368 then the guy next in the queue will get no. 369. A digital display at the turnstile shows how many seats are available at that section so that if there are a whole bunch of you that are piling in at the same time, or if a dad is arriving with his 2 sons then he knows he will get seats together with his kids and the bunch of lads know they will be together too. All the while the turnstile operator knows exactly which seats are taken and which are available, and because you have given your ticket stub in exchange for a seat ticket number the club knows exactly who was sitting where at each match.

This means that if you want to get your favourite position in the stand, with your mates, then you will have to get there as soon as possible. This will encourage 3 things in one fell swoop.

1) People will get to the stadium early, reducing traffic pile ups. 2) People will get in with their mates/family etc. 3) A pre match atmosphere will be brought back as the stand slowly fills up with people trying to get their favourite seat.

And the club gets a stand full of supporters dedicated to supporting the team whatever the score, effectively recreating a Kop end as in days gone by but without the perils of the terracing.

I think this would work if the club would be prepared to spend a bit of extra cash on the admin and technical costs. I'm going to write to Kate Hoey with the suggestion..anyone know how I can do this?

So what do you think? A good idea or not?........

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

Answers

Andy, well thought out, two questions non tech, what about the punters who already have season tickets for the Gallowgate, have been going to that end for years and are not particulary voiceferous , how does one judge the singers if over subscribed ?, clappers nae problem , wor Warren will judge that one. As for the massed choirs arriving early, for pre match practice, I am sure in the 70`s. there was a tendency for the Leazes lot to practice in groups in various locations outwith the ground before a late surge into the ground for the live act.

Also a section should be built to house a brass band or a local kalamazoo outfit , this should be well away from non singers and other supporters but with good acoustics may be a fine addition.

I am a great believer in the more you organise an event the more regimented and boring it becomes , ad-lib, off the cuff, the best ceilidhs I have experienced is the impromtu ones, the fiddles come oot the barmaids start flinging themselves about, squeeze boxes , feet tapping, 3 days of booze and music and nowts been organised, Never in my lifetime would I believe that we have to organise voiciferous support for Newcastle Utd , can see your point tho, nae problem away from home , best of luck , get nowt if you dinna try.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

I hope you are joking about the brass band bit Buff!

However bad the atmosphere gets we shouldn't sell our soul down the road like those manufactured atmosphere hovels like the Riverside and Pride Park.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

And Enger--land, Dee,Dee.da-da,de-de , history man, the drums beating to rally the troops in times of adversity when their heeds wor doon. The pipes, the pipes , marching into battle , design some ramparts at SJP builder man and lets get a band ensconced , got to happen, Yanks have cheer leaders, Turks have their banners and flares ,the French bugles, (to signal retreat), the Jarmans have it easy tho, just slap their thighs and the lederhosen does the rest. We need a section to house 40 juvenile kalamazoo bands and let em rip , its original,cheap and local flavour.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

Love the idea, and very well thought out. Can't see it happening on as large a scale as the entire Gallowgate(or Leazes), but might not be so difficult to implement in smaller areas within the stands, or possible in the upper decks if there winds up being sizable numbers of folks not renewing ST's. But then that brings up the question of whether ST holders in the lower sections would be willing to move upstairs to sing/stand/be with their mates? Still think it's worth a serious proposal.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

Couldn't they have a shallow paddock surrounding the pitch which would only take up about 10 rows of seats?

This would alleviate the safety problems, increase the capacity and increase the atmosphere at pitch level. I don't know how many seats this would remove but the 2,500 tickets that go on general sale could be allocated to these areas.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

Buff,in response to your questions.......

Obviously if the club declare that the Gallowgate end is to be an all singing section then there will be people already in that section who dont really sing and wont like the idea of switching seats. The only answer that I can give to this is that there will be an awfull lot of people, like me, who will be giving up seats with good views merely so that they can be part of a singing section, therefore there would effectively be a lot of seat swapping. However I cant deny that there would inevitably be some cases of people being given seats that they would rather not have. This is the crunch issue, because the club need to make up their mind which way they want to go... either piss a handfull of people off by creating a whole new singing section but making the club spiritually stronger...or keep the present set up with thousands of people pissed off because going to the match is no fun anymore due to the morose atmosphere each week (which is exactly how I feel).

How does the club judge if you are a singer? I think its a straightforward question and one that should be asked when judging the application. Something like the following should be stated on the application form :- "This section of the ground is to be allocated to those supporters who enjoy being vociferous throughout the match. Only apply for this section IF YOU ARE SURE that you are this type of supporter. Please note that we expect heavy demand for this section therefore think carefully about your decision."

I think if someone applied to this section and was then as quite as a mouse on matchdays then that person would get some stick off the people around them, so it would be unlikely that the stand would be filled with the wrong kind of people.

You say that the more you organise an event the more boring it becomes, but surely there cannot be anything more regimented than having to sit in the same seat next to the same people each week? This is exactly why there is such a poor atmosphere at SJP these days. The fans are in a rut and this proposal of mine, I feel, would bring back some of the spontanaeity of the days of the terraces.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

Andy , I have been a wee bit trite in my posts, two questions were above board and needed to be answered, rest assured that I support your actions, power to your elbow, your aims may have to be lowered tho as Ciara suggests.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

Andy,

Your idea has merit, and addresses many of the problems often cited. Any move to establish a singing area will involve the touchy issue of moving some people, and for this reason alone the powers that be at SJP will be wary. If we could somehow get them accept the need, then they will have to face up to how best to deal with this issue.

My suggestion is that you write to David Stonehouse, Cheif Executive at SJP. If you also want to write to the Sports Minister, simply send your letter to The Rt. Hon. Ms. K. Hoey, Houses of Parliament, Westminster, London.

Good luck bonny lad - nothing ventured nothing gained.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

As some one who has some formal acoustics training in my youth I need to comment.

There needs to be a roof over you to ensure maximum noise echo/reverb.

The roof needs to cover the singers but be open to the rest of the ground. Any noise from the top half of the Gallowgate/Exhibition/Broon Ale end is blocked from half the rest of the ground by the roof. I can see people seem to be making lots of noise but it's all muted a bit like seeing Gary Speed doing something constructive in midfield, you KNOW he's there and doing something you just can't make out what it is.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

So it might make more sense to do it in the Leazes? Higher roof, but does the noise then go right past folks in the upper half of the Gallowgate? Also, in the upper Leazes, the singers would be next to the away fans, which wouldn't hurt the chances of creating a great atmosphere.

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

It has to be in the Leazes End, where Geordies never end, and all the Chelsea fans lie dead at our feet nah nah nah bounce

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

I agree that the singing section should be strategically placed with a roof overhead to maximize the sound level, therefore it must make use of the higher tiers. I tend to be against making the new tier the section though, simply because it gives the club the excuse to put all those nasty rowdies out of sight.

No...its time the club put some real effort into appeasing the supporters of this club and give us an all singing all dancing Kop end, whether this is the whole of the Gallowgate or Leazes is'nt too important...I'd prefer the gallowgate simply because the acoustics are better...but its about time they showed some initiative.

Tommorrow I will write to Ms Hoey, Mr Stonehouse, all of the fanzine editors and some of the newspapers. There was a good article in the Sunday Mirror the other day making comments about singing/standing sections, so I will email them also. I will keep you posted!

-- Anonymous, March 15, 2001

upper leazes, next to the away fans, singing section...ah, my season ticket is calling me home.....

;((

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2001

Andy, As an observation, last night The seated? scousers did no too bad in their vocal support for the team , not for the full 90 granted but I felt at the right times. Could it be the product on display has a lot to do with support levels ?, Its a theory of mine that when our clubs play in Europe at pitches with a running track around, well away from the crowd, they subconsciously lower the pace of the game and play into the hands of the continental oppossition.

In tv close-ups of the crowd I am sure you will have observed amongst the singing dancin dervishes a few silent types ,are these the like we would like to move, its a hard one and fraught with problems. My feeling is, improve the product , and let the Geordie public take it from there, on a balmy European night one may be so pleasantly suprised at the volume of support that cascades onto the park, if we are asking that full blooded vocal support for a team that we have all season said on here lacks committment , ideas, etc, that`s another ball game, as I have mentioned before we are at times our own biggest enemies , this spreads to the board and bang you have it, complaceny sets in , I do not want Gray, Lineker , Hansen etc to come on tv and spout, "Poor team but what a support", what a noise

Get a team out on the park , you will get the vocals Andy ,one begats the other, and the transition to a singing end can evolve in a discilined manner and not rushed through.

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2001

I must confess to being one of the boring owld farts who was glad to see the back of the terraces, and couldn't care less about screaming me head off for ninety minutes, although it's probably more detremental to my health not getting it out of my system vocally than suffering in silence

On a practical note, my experience of being in the middle of a load of screamers sometimes makes me wonder where they leave their civilisation when they are at a football match. A lot of the guys around me seem to spend most of the match facing the away support and hurling abuse about their parentage etc. Take a look at their faces some time - frightening.

Not impressed I'm afraid, so I'd probably vote to go for a mob end just so I could hopefully get as far away from it as possible. I'll continue to suffer in silence, thank you very much.

Does this make me a bad person ? :-))

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2001

Buff makes a very perceptive point, as usual. There was nothing wrong with the support, or the atmoshpere when KK's team was regularly steam-rollering the opposition at SJP.

Since then, apart from the successive FAC runs, when there was at least something to shout about, the passion has gradually dwindled as the quality on the pitch has deteriorated.

Just think about the dross that's been served up at SJP this season - how on earth are we supposed to get passionate about that?

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2001

Aye, but our arses spent a lot less time glued to our seats. If you want a passionate support you've got to allow standing, simple as that.

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2001

Neither the Leazes or Gallowgate were designed for terracing, and as such would best be left alone. Why not convert the East Stand? It's past its sell-by date anyway (despite still being referred to as the 'new' Stand by me and my croney mates). Having your singers standing at the side is no bad thing as anyone who visited the old Parkhead and Maine Road grounds will testify. It'd also give us the chance to stay one step ahead of the mackems on the increased capacity front.

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2001

There were some excellent close-ups of the crowd last night. Particularly enjoyed the diverse effects of the massed banner and scarf wavers during "You'll never walk alone" as some of them were clearly holding back the tears afterwards whilst others were geed up by it. Personally I find it a dreadfully mawkish old dirge but I dare say Blaydon Races sounds naff to everyone else. It did show that a deliberately self-conscious display like that can prickle the eyes of the participants, though, and I will always treasure the rendition of "Geordie Boot Boys" during that miserable final against Man Utd where everything else just faded into the mist and it was just us, 10s of thousands of us, singing in perfect unison and bursting with pride.

All in very sharp contrast to that wanker watching Arsenal with his mobile phone. They zoomed in on him for a full minute while he prattled on to Crispin about some Sloany dilemma. Wasn't even watching the pitch.

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2001

And the one next to him that was yawning. Not that I can blame him. Not the most exciting match.

I can appreciate the argument that the product on the pitch is contributing to lack of atmosphere. No doubt it's not helping. But coming up with some way for those who wish to stand and vocalize together would, imo, be a big help in boosting atmosphere. Away matches being a prime example. How much dross have travelling supporters had to watch? And how vocal do we continue to be? If the team won't entertain us, let us entertain ourselves. I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case at SJP.

And I don't understand why standing at your seat is such a dangerous thing. Still a controlled number of bodies in the space. It can't be any more dangerous than terracing, probably less so because you can't have the kind of surges terracing allowed. The only away match I've been to where I've actually sat during the game was last year's semi at Wembley. And that was only cause everyone else was sitting and the stewards were nazis, not because those 'seats' were at all comfortable. ;-)

By introducing some kind of singing sections in the ground, like-minded folks could be together which would make the singers happy. It would also move them away from people who prefer to sit and not be subjected to non-stop noise, or feel pressured to join in.

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2001

Ciara, agree with your comments except, ` If they can not entertain us , at least we can entertain oursrlves away`, Its like buying your kid an expensive toy for Xmas which he immediatly discards and plays for the next hour and a half with the cardboard box it came in -££££££

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2001