OK - I seem that I can't convince my editormates - so I'll call the vote in the general board.

The technique proposed to be banned is one where you convert something, but "immediatly take it back", then reconvert it(again, immediatly), and it becomes an all clear conversion. All this makes the survival mode now is a marathon game. I think true skill is found without using this technique.

All in favor of banning this technique will signify by saying "aye". All opposed will signify by saying "no". Of course you can add debate to that. :) This is a five-day, majority wins vote and will expire on March 20 at 2359 GMT. Thanks for your vote :) GB9

-- Gameboy9 (goldengameboy@yahoo.com), March 15, 2001

Answers

Aye.

-- jbd (jdyer41@aol.com), March 15, 2001.

No.

Here's my reasoning behind it:

This trick works under all modes. Banning it just in survival mode is a bit unfair, as the trick could still be used in the other two modes then.

Also, you don't get nearly as many points doing an all-clear this way (max. of probably seven or eight reactions) as you do by a manual one (which tends to be in the range of 30-40 reactions). If they want to score (maybe) 200k each time, fine, but I, personally, will still go after the 2M point long chains.

Recordings with more than a certain number of all-clears through this trick, however, should be zeroed for leeching. I suggest a limit of five uses of this trick per recording in survival mode and Magical Journey, and a limit of once per round in challenge mode.

Just my $.50 worth.

-- Matt Denham (peng@demongate.ath.cx), March 15, 2001.

matt's plan sounds good.. but i have a bigger question: how EXACTLY do you do it? the faq was a bit confusing and i was pretty much lost from seeing the 7,5m score that showed off this trick...

-- david oliver (davedude1414@yahoo.com), March 15, 2001.

If my vote matters, then I vote "Aye", ban the technique for all modes if possible, though. I don't see why it should be allowed in any of them.

Matt, it is possible use this method, and get the all clear and still set off 16-25 level combos during the clearing without too much difficulty. The only way you will get only a Level 9-10 combo is if you do the cheat, and then just sit back and watch it all go off.

-- Aaron Pieper (apieper@vt.edu), March 16, 2001.

Oh, and the details of the method: An ice bubble needs to be directly beneath a bunch of bubbles which are getting destroyed. You grab the ice bubble AFTER it has changed to a normal block, but BEFORE it gets destroyed. It will have the same effect as the special destroy- everything gem.

Does that help? If not, I can track down and post the URL of the FAQ which explained the trick to me.

-- Aaron Pieper (apieper@vt.edu), March 16, 2001.

aye for banning any occurance of said technique in all game modes.

-- Chad (churritz@cts.com), March 16, 2001.

Aaron: Yes, but would you rather have the 25-level chain and clear bonus or a 30+ chain and no clear bonus?

I still stand by my "limited use of this trick" proposal.

-- Matt Denham (peng@demongate.ath.cx), March 18, 2001.

Aye for banning in all modes. It's a bit silly to be able to clear the whole board essentially at will. And why bother even allowing it once in a game? All right then, let's play Joust and it's five men only.... well, except for those five extra men you can get through a glitch in the game, and that Holy Grail of Invulnerability the lava troll gives you if you flap 256 times while he holds you! You can use that too... Please, no house rules MAME. ;) KISS.

Brian

-- Brian McLean (bmclean84@hotmail.com), March 18, 2001.

I'd have less of a problem with a complete ban of this if it weren't as hard as it was to pull off successfully. (It's not easy, no matter what anyone tells you... it takes VERY good timing, and I somehow doubt it's a glitch in the game. I think it's an intentional reward for being able to time things that well.)

-- Matt Denham (peng@demongate.ath.cx), March 19, 2001.

Yeah - my vote is aye on all modes. I agree with the all-mode reasoning I've read. GB9

-- Gameboy9 (goldengameboy@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

I don't know this game very well , so : *if this trick is easy to do, I vote "ban" *if this trick is hard to do, I vote "not ban" (especially if the game has a limit : does the game end at level 99 ?? Aaron ?)

-- Phil (plamat@club-internet.fr), March 20, 2001.

Mmmmm I've never gotten to level 99. And I agree that it's a hard trick to learn, but it's pretty easy to execute once you learn it.

And executing the trick doesn't really take good timing, it only takes a good reaction time. When you throw the ice block up to be changed, all of the ice blocks on the screen will change to regular blocks - After you see this happen, you have about 3 tenths of a second or so to grab the ice bubble back. I mean it's a long enough time that you can react, you don't have to memorize the timing or anything.

And I still don't understand your point about choosing between a Level 25 combo+clear or a Level 30 combo without clear? I mean, if you have the skill to do a level 30 combo, then using up one ice block to start the clearing trick isn't going to keep you from doing a level 30 combo.

Let's pretend that you have 90 assorted bubbles, and you're super- smart and you can set them up into 30 groups of 3 for a level 30 combo, without the cheat. That's easy enough to understand.

This next part is very difficult to understand! So please read slowly, re-read, I don't know. It's tough to explain.

Now let's pretend that you have 90 bubbles and you're cheating. You can use six of them to set up a level 2 combo. You start the combo, and you throw the ice bubble on top of the second level in your combo, and grab it back. The "Nothing" object blows up, for the second level in your combo. Now you throw back the bubbles you've picked up, they blow up.

By cheating, you've made a level 3 combo with only 7 bubbles, leaving you 83 to make whatever combo you want. Don't forget that no matter what now, everything will blow up, and you will get an all clear bonus. Now assuming you're still perfect, you could use the 78 of the 83 remaining bubbles to add 26 levels to your combo (for a level 29 combo total so far). But wait! Now the clearing trick kicks in. If you're still perfect, you've left 1 of each bubble left (that's why you only used 78/83 of your total bubbles above) and this will give you 5 extra levels to the combo, making it a level 34 combo, PLUS you still get the all clear bonus.

The "All-Clear" cheat is definitely not some sort of a scoring penalty, as you make it seem, Matt. There are NO circumstances under which you can get a higher level combo by not using the trick. If you still believe there are, then I challenge you to show me one, via screen shot or something.

If my explanation is too confusing, I would be willing a few screenshots and walking everyone through it graphically - It may help.

-- Aaron Pieper (apieper@vt.edu), March 20, 2001.