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I'm curious...does anyone know how the church decides if a person is possesed or not?
-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), March 10, 2001
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-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), March 10, 2001.
JmjHi, Jackiea.
It's interesting that you should ask that. On Friday night, EWTN had an interview with Fr. James LeBar, the exorcist of the New York archdiocese. He is a not just a priest, but also a psychiatrist. Unfortunately, I did not watch much of the interview, as it was a repeated broadcast, and I had seen the original. The question you asked did come up, but I'm not sure that I can recall the full answer. I believe that Fr. LeBar said that, when a suspected case of possession is referred to the archdiocese (about 300 in the 1990s in New York, with 5% turning out to be genuine) what happens is this ...
1. The Church does all it can to subject the person to physical and psychological testing, to rule out the possibility of a known disease being the cause of the abnormal person's behavior.
2. The exorcist looks for certain signs of phenomena that are traditionally associated with demonic possession. I believe that at least some of these must be present:
-- ability to exhibit superhuman strength [Fr. LeBar mentioned seeing a possessed person pick up a 200-pound container with one hand and throw it across a room.]
-- ability to speak or understand foreign languages that have never been studied.
-- insight into the (otherwise un-knowable) private life or past sins of the exorcist (or someone else who is present).
-- extreme aversion to spiritual things like holy water, a crucifix, the name of Jesus, and especially the hidden Blessed Sacrament.St. James, pray for us. All holy exorcists now in heaven, pray for us.
God bless you.
John
PS: The Catholic Encyclopedia mentions this important item: "As we gather from the Fathers [including St. Augustine] and the theologians [including St. Thomas Aquinas], the soul itself can never be 'possessed' nor deprived of liberty, though its ordinary control over the members of the body may be hindered" by an evil spirit.
-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), March 10, 2001.
Dear John, and Jackie,
Even if I'm only repeating hearsay, I can tell you of a horrendous example of possession.My Mom, who is now 86, told us a nun in her high school class, many, many years ago, gave an account of demonic possession. She had seen, or knew someone that saw --this possessed person walk up the side of a wall! How reliable this may have been, I don't know. I'm not a credulous man. But most nuns don't lie, I think.
-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 10, 2001.
possesion what can i say, too many people are willing to believe in cases of possesion rather than perhaps the basic fundamentals of mental illness,to the contary i am not a sceptic ,but i do notice how comfortable it is for others to label,i dont believe in possesion in terms of heaven and hell, that to me seems way too easy,and relates to a unimformed public to fear what you dont understand, the human unconscious is a complex relm and we all no matter how much we might like to deny it come from some primevil foundation that is a part of what is called the human condition, how we regulate our primal selfs depends on how evolved the individual is,if you saturate your soul with evil deads and bad thoughts you are of course going to resemble some demonic animal that is of course primevil by nature / demonic to others,humans are not completely heavenly or demonic by design ,the ouestion is in which side of the scale does your personalty reside. check out our site unexplained.at/deadworld
-- paul mears (paulmears@iprimus.com.au), July 09, 2001.
Mr. Mears, in all due respect, something that seems "way too easy" to you, may not to someone else. The concept of Heaven and Hell, demons and angels, Satan and God is not something that can be construed as a cop out. Mental illness is a very real and frightening thing. But so is possession and oppression (being tormented by demons or Satan). There are too many factual cases of this happening to deny its existence. Many of our Christian brothers and sisters that come here do not follow or believe our Catholic religion. But they follow the Bible very closely. And so, we would all have to agree that the existence of demons and Satan is very real. And his ability to possess another is documented in the Bible. Luke 8 is just one example. I think it is all too common in this day and age to associate more with the mental state than anything spiritual. People are very quick to attribute their condition with depression, mental illness, etc. and less inclined to look at the spiritual aspect of it. That, perhaps, it is something evil at work in their lives.
-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), July 09, 2001.
you seem to missed my point completely?i have no desire to debunk any such cases of possesion if you would of examined our site you would of seen that i have actually encountered these demonic forces first hand , my object was to state that in a lot of cases mental illness can be a breeding ground for demonic possesion that is not to say that it is in every case ,but you cannot deny the fact that demons work on human fear and dout ,i have experienced this with many people for example i knew a person who would wake at night in some animal like state and proceed to crawl backwards up a wall ,white eyed and hissing like a wild beast,i actually saw this happening,why didnt i become possesed,the answer is pretty simple i recognize what such forces are attracted to ,so is it really mental illness or possesion perhaps it is a combination of both ,phychology and christianity have always been at odds with this debate,one is a question of faith the other the cold hard facts ,examine our primevil origins and you might find an answer if you are fighting a demon in your mind or in the flesh, you alone are the one that negates who will win,over anything the desire for human beings to surrvive and dominate is one of the stongest Forces to be found,any individual can choose to asume where this force might stem from.like wise i dont believe the devil resides bellow us waiting for a victim to take possesion of,but i do believe that evil has an energy just as good does and the whole object of my corraspondence was to bring some light onto the fact that humans do exist in a paradox of good and evil and we negate our own path ,unexplained.at/deadworld
-- paul mears (paulmears@iprimus.com.au), July 10, 2001.
Hi jackiea, you need to find the book Malleus Malificarum or hammer of witches it was writen by two austiran monks noting on how to identify and deal with demonic possesion...
-- jamie (silver_flame_82@msn.com), November 11, 2001.
JmjI wouldn't recommend that one, Jamie. Jackiea wanted to know about diabolical possession.
The Catholic Encyclopedia gives a "thumbs down" to "Malleus ..." in its article on witchcraft.
Elsewhere I see that MM is a 1486 book identified as a "text used by Inquisitors to aid in the identification, prosecution, and dispatching of witches."
St. James, pray for us.
God bless you.
John
-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 11, 2001.
possesion is in the process of being proved as an organic disorder. Disoociative Transe disorder would be the official name. i personally believe that it is a little bit of both. Although symptoms such as strange marks appearing on the body and levetation have been documented, they were never documented my a medical doctor. symptoms like these would prove that ist not organic. but speaking in tongues and overly aggressive behavior can be explained in medical terms. the reason why i think it is both is that sometimes the only "cure" for the proposed dt disorder is exorcism.
-- jeffery alexander stokes (happyfunball@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.
i was wondering what was the fist sighn of possesion?
-- amaya smith (Futuremissusa@aol.com), September 03, 2002.
Schizophrenia, violence and nudity are some indicators. Obviously this is not a complete list, nor does it mean that a person that displays any one of those items is necessarily possessed. Also, the ability to start fires from a distance, make known people's hidden sins to the public, and the ability to converse in ancient and dead languages.I'm not exactly sure what the FIRST sign is...
At any rate, it takes an expert, a Catholic excorcist with Church approval, to deal with these matters, and I suppose to make the determination of whether the case is real possession or not.
-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), September 03, 2002.
The very first sign is a slight warm fuzzy tingling feeling in your right index finger.Just kidding - It probably isn't a first sign, but a group of signs that identify one as being possessed. And it probably depends on which demon, who the person is, etc.
For safety sake, just let your local exorcist work out (or exorcise) the details :)
In Christ.
-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), September 03, 2002.
interesting subject. i am related to a possessed person and can tell you that the "presence of evil should be a very believable factor in finding help. The church does physical and psychological tests on the person and those involved closely. If you suspect you or someone else to be possessed please contact a trusted catholic priest or bishop if possible. Do not try to find out on your own. This can actually harm the individual or yourself. Remember, the spirit world is the real world. Stay away from tools of the devil...ouji baords tarot cards horoscopes and magic items. Hope this helps Rachelle
-- (chelle32259@yahoo.com), October 03, 2002.
jackieaPossession is real, in Jerusalem I follow the Jesuit order with extreme interest especially with regard to demons today. As an Armenian our priests in Jerusalem refuse to openly speak of possession.
-- aka max (temzil@yahoo.com), October 04, 2002.
Yes, possession is a reality we face. However, matters of exorcism and possession/oppression should not be sources of extreme or undue fascination. Lengthy contemplation of the infernal is a spiritual hazard. I believe C. S. Lewis even wrote that he simply could not write a sequel to "The Screwtape Letters" because of the natural aversion he had to writing from the point of view of demons. Who among us could stand calling God "the Enemy," even in jest?In any case, the threshhold of safe attention given to the matter of possession is, perhaps, lower than for most other things we might discuss.
-- Skoobouy (skoobouy@hotmail.com), October 04, 2002.
Insofaras physical, bodily signs.. .there are some: 1. A pulsating sensation coming out of your palms of your hands, the bottoms of your feet, from the soft spot on top of your head, and even from where the third eye is thought of. 2. In syncronisation with the pulsating sensations you will notice that there will be a tapping sensation on your breastbone, that will form into a pulsating lump that feels like it is composed of cartilage. 3. pains such as charlie horses in various parts of the body; spasms of the muscles.. in conjunction with thoughts (be aware) 4. A sensation of sexual arrousal for no apparent reason.. or even for an unappropriate one.. 5. Sensations such as there being cobwebs on your face.. itchiness of your nose, ears, and on your scalp.. (these are all signs that there is at least an unclean spirit checking you out.. ) 6. Having the feeling that your blood preasure is rising at any instance of an unclean act.. (the demons get excited by violence, sex, anything unholy) BE AWARE.. There are many signs to look for.. Praise Jehovah God, if you have none of them.. REPENT if you do.Pray for me, for I have been cursed, and know much more about this than I ever would want anyone to know.
May the Living God Jehovah have mercy upon you. May His Son: Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon you; The Great Tribulation is coming upon us soon; we are already in what might be called the last days leading up to it...
If anyone reading this is in connection with a knowledgable exorcist; a good one, please put him in touch with me, will you please. May you have protection, and the blessings of our Heavenly Father for doing so, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
Jim
-- james kosior (transcendertash@hotmail.com), January 04, 2003.
Jim, if you are serious about wanting to see an exorcist, do this ...Find the office of the Catholic bishop nearest to your home. (If you don't know how to find the office, write to my e-mail address and I'll help you to make contact.) The bishop or his representative will help you to meet an exorcist if you truly need one.
God bless you.
John
-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 04, 2003.
...i know this has nothing to do with the question....but i need help...one of my friends has been possesed and i am afraid to go to my priest...does anyone know what to do about it?
-- wendy (starrymoon3@hotmail.com), January 05, 2003.
Wendy, why are you afraid to go to your priest?
-- . (.@......), January 05, 2003.
my friends sister periodically will hunch over,voice will change, leg will drag and say things such as 'theres no hope, dispear is all around'' she is a normal intelligent 30 yr old great job and very social. her parents are catholic and she thinks she may be schitzophrenic but it souns like possesion to me what do u think out there- also her eyes go very dark and are full of hate
-- kristie lincoln (kristie_lincoln@hotmail.com), January 26, 2003.
She may be intelligent and social, but it doesn't sound like she is "normal". In any case, the Church would not even consider any investigation into spiritual causes of such behavioral aberrations until physical/pathological/psychological/emotional/neurological causes have been ruled out.
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 26, 2003.
I think all of you are giving entirely to much power to Satan! The arguement against a believer's being able to be possessed rests on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. In other words, since the Spirit indwells the believer, it is IMPOSSIBLE for Satan or demons also to indwell and thus posses the believer at the same time. We may not be attacked from the inside, but from the outside and therefore we should put on the Armor of God Eph 6:11-17. If you haven't trusted Christ alone, not works or religion, I encourage you to do so now. If you believe that your salvation is by works I ask you to open your Bible and read Romans 3:21-4:25. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love in this; while we were still sinner Christ died for us." Romans 10:9-10 "That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. For it is with you heart that you believe and are justified, and with you mouth that you confess and are saved."jon
-- jon (jon_262@hotmail.com), February 07, 2003.
I don't know but listen i have a friend and she started 2 wear black all the time.And she get violent sometimes.And well my friend she have nightmares every night.And she get violent.And she doesn't like church anymore and when i tell her something about god she laughs or tell me to stop!What should i do?
-- Kate (Koolestgal031@juno.com), April 30, 2003.
pray for her. you can't really knock her out and take her to church. wouldn't do any good. how old is she? what do her parents think? she may not be possessed, she may have just had a radical change of heart for the worse. she may have to suffer in her choice for a while.
-- Mike H. (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), April 30, 2003.
last night i was listening to a song that i've heard a fair number of times before, but this time it was different, i started shaking and straining my hands and i started writing god please save me from this evil and i couldn't stop listening to the song. and then when it was done, i had to listen again and the same thing happened, and my writing is practically illegible. I wasn't making any sounds though, but it was all inside me. I don't know if i was just upset in general or if the song could have done something to me. It was full of screaming and i guess it is scary sounding... any clue what that could be?
-- Danielle (Skipp_n_Monkys@hotmail.com), May 05, 2003.
Yup! Danielle.Don't plug the earphones into the wall sockets anymore. Electricity is a real killer.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
rod. .
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 05, 2003.
Well, as a person who had dwelled in the art of witchcraft, it was fun to me at the time. But, I was not aware of the consequence. Demonic possesion is definitly real. People are grabbed by evil spirits before they even realized that it was not just a game. The signs like aggressive nature are just the tip of the iceberg. Growling is definitly one of the symptoms and levitation is also in there. Scientology is the one thing that got me. I was totally unaware. Moving objects with your mind, temperature fluctuations, ability to feel lingering spirits. The whole thing is really interesting to see but not experience. Pretty much everyone that I know is possesed as well as you. Remember'eternal life'? Where do you think the afterlife is? Where do you think these spirits go? They need a warm energy source to continue in existence. They just float around looking for some poor sap to enter and make negative things happen so that it can take over that body and live again. Think about it for a minute. It is a good way to make the bad people go straight. The devil is not allowed to do anything unless god says. The best way to get the spirit out is to not feed it. Do not put yourself in the situation where you could be tempted by violence, sex, drugs or even cigarettes. Being possesed is actually god calling you to him. He is saying to you, okay, that is enough fun, now grow up. If anyone has any questions then write and I will do my best to answer what I can. God bless and be good.
-- (pheonix_enlightened@hotmail.com), September 25, 2003.
Phoenix,So you're no longer possessed? How did you gain your freedom? How do you know for sure that they are gone?
I'm suspecting that you're not really as free as you think. What if they're just dormant because you stopped feeding their needs through your own self-control?
It sounds like you believe that people are possessed by souls of dead people - kinda like the movie "Ghost". That doesn't actually happen. People who die don't float around looking to possess others. But there are demons/evil spirits who do just that. Are you aware of what demons are and where they came from?
If you truly want to be free, you need to turn your life over to Jesus Christ. He will set you free and fill you with the Holy Spirit so demons can't come into you anymore.
Dave
-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), September 25, 2003.
i was wondering if someone can help me out, ever since i was a small kid (6-7 years old) i was always being attacked by evil forces with terible nightmares to outer-body experiances as i watch hands coming out of my pillow trying to suffocate me (in my view this should not yet happen to a small blissfull child) please bear with me as my story is a long one. I think the reason that i was attacked as a kid is that before we moved into the house where all this happend, our next door neighbours told us that when they moved in there were satanists living in there house and they got a priest to come and cast out all the evil spirits (which was only made known to me much later on in life) and i think that maybe those spirits just went into the house next door (our house), anyway, my family is quite a strong christian family (exept for my dad) and when my gran saw how scared i was and heard of my experiences in the house she introduced Jesus to me and told me how to go about asking him into my heart and saving myself which i did and straight away after that i never had another bad experiance in that house as a small kid!! anyway time went on and we moved to a new house and things were going well till i started high school and a nasty rumor was started about me, the rumor was so bad that i only had 2 friends in high school(my friends from primery school) this rumor destroyed my life right up untill this day (i'm 20 now)this rumor started at about the age of 15 and it shook my faith, so i was up and down with my faith and evil things always seemed to facinate and lure and tell me that evil would make me more powerfull and help with the rumor, i moved to a technical collegue after failing my standard 8 because of the rumor and met a frend there who was very much into heavy metal and one day i was going through a bad patch with my faith as i had been arrested for shoplifting and my parents were on the virge of a divorce because of it, so i decided to play with my frend and his ouija board (WORST CHOICE I'V EVER MADE!!) we played it up to a point and then i said no more, As you can geuss when it came time to sleep that night i was terified, i told my parents and we decided that i should go and see my youth paster which i did and it helped quite a lot because i was worried that i was possessed which he assured me i was not, Anyway this whole thing took me about a year and a half to get over with and i'v become very strong again in my faith with the lord Jesus, now my thing is this, i'v just finished reading through all of the other post and have come to a horrible realization, i have been having some of these things hapening to me like muscle spasms and other small stuf even the growling (not full on growling like a lion but when ever i used to see the guys who started the rumor or people who used to mock me about it in the malls or wherever i would do this wierd little growl under my breath) i also get VERY angry somtimes for no reason or over small things and i can't understand because i'v been so strong in my faith and all, i dont think i'm possessed but i do think that there is some hektic war over which way my faith will fall and i get very very scared when i read up on the signs of possession and all, and there is stuff in there that i do or happens to me, i can't be possessed, i'v givin my heart to Jesus Christ (there are times when i get very depressed and think about going over to the other side of religion but i never have and have always stayed as true as i can but as i say we all sin and it's very hard to stop and controll it and i still do sin) so i'm very very scared about this whole hing, anyone out there got some comforting/assuring words for me?
-- Ryan (Ryan.Jooste@batemanbv.com), December 23, 2003.
I am sorry to hear of your plight. Your story is not that unusual in this day and age. Take strength in the fact that in Christ all is overcome. No one expects you to overcome all these obsticals on your own. One of the reasons Christ built a Church was to make sure we have the support structure in place for times when we need it. You certainly need a good Christian support structure. Go to your local Catholic parish and ask to speak with a priest. Also, just as important, see what types of support groups the parish has for people your age. I think a whole new world will open up for you.Stay away from heavy metal music. I know of no good that has come from it and a lot of people who have been hurt by it (both mentally and physically).
Also, stay away from anything smelling of the 'occult'.
In Christ, Bill
-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 23, 2003.
Thanx very much Bill, I was just wanting to know somthing, i'm not Catholic i'm a protastant Christian, So i'm sure i can find help from my Christian Church?
-- Ryan (Ryan.jooste@batemanbv.com), December 24, 2003.
JACKIEA: I REPEAT WHAT I SAY ON ANOTHER ANSWER:GO TO THIS SITE, THE FAMOUS SPANISH EXORCIST ANTONIO FORTEA HAS A SITE! THERE U CAN FIND STORIES POSTED ON THE FORUMS AND THE ANSWER YOU ARE SEARCHING 4:http://www.fortea.us/english/index.htm
GOD BLESS U ALL!
IN CORDIBUS JESU ET MARIAE
A FRIEND
-- A FRIEND (NEVER@MIND.TV), December 28, 2003.
I have no idea how this could happen...i have been experiancing weird things and i am really scared. I need an awnser to this...i was in the shower and i heard a low voice calling my name...then something brushed by the shower curtains and the whole room got dark...i started to feel anger inside me and i didnt feel like myself...i looked at my neck when i got out of the shower and it was bruised. I use to have a quija board but my mom threw it away before we could even say goodbye to the evil. I was wondering if i could have evil demons in my house that could posses me or my family? please get back i really would like to know this information. Thanks: Kimmie
-- Kimmie Ann Maher (Streetmaddness45foo@bar.com), April 03, 2004.
kimmie,Your case does seem frightening and might be some cause to worry. Effects of low level possession are often signs such as voices, physical changes (bruising, etc), physical manifestations of things (objects moving, appearing to change), emotive experience (anger or dullness towards things holy progressing to spite for God and holy objects), visitation by physical manifestions of demons, and other signs as well.
Early possession is not without forms of cure. First, your mother was right to throw away the ouji board. you do not need to say goodby to evil, you need to cut off all contact from it immediately. Do as your mother says and let it go.
Second, pray. Pray with all your heart. In those moments where anger seizes you and you feel exposed to something like this say the "Our Father", or the guardian angel prayer. Repeated it and believe it with all your heart. Devoting your mind and heart and words to prayer will force a path through the anger instilled in you by anything external and will call for blessings of protection from God.
Third, Believe and have will power. There is a turning point in possession. one where a person is merely plagued by a demon turns to a person who is completely controlled by the demon. your plea for help would lead me to believe you are before this turning point. Your will power needs to be strong in the belief that Christ will sheild you from evil. If nothing else, when you feel tempted by this 'outside presence' simply repeat "Christ is my light, in Him is my salvation, He protects me from the snares of satan and saves me from falling into the darkness." Bolster your will and, with the help of Christ, push that demon from your mind.
four, see a priest. If the priest downplays what has happened to you, find another priest. If you cant find a priest who will listen, call your local bishop. Do what it takes to get in touch with an excorcist who can examine you for signs of possession and prescribe professional advice.
Finally, to answer your question: Demons can infest anybody. We do, however, choose to allow them into our lives. It is also our choice, before complete possession, to deny them access to our souls. Anybody can fall into sin and possession, just as anybody has the power to stay faithful to Christ. Be strong for Christ.
The blessing of the Lord be with you and may He and the Angels of heaven watch over your soul and protect you from evil.
-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), April 03, 2004.
Also very importantly, have your mother get you to see a doctor if this continues. It may not be "possession" at all, but the early stages of a mental illness like schizophrenia. No one can really say over the internet, but if this recurs, you need to see professionals both in medicine and the church to sort it out.Frank
-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 03, 2004.
frank,the first thing an excorcist would do would be to send her to a doctor.
-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), April 03, 2004.
paul,Yeah, I know they try and rule out any biological factors first, but she might not. Of course, I don't know which would be more distressing to her, to think that she might have a daemon after her, or the possibility of having something organically wrong! I WILL add her to our prayer list though.
Frank
-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 03, 2004.
Kimmie, Your mind is a very powerful thing. When I was young, shortly after Halloween, there were some reports of people drugging the trick or treat candy. I started chewing a piece of gum and having a terrible anxiety attack. I believed I was drugged and showed all the symptoms. The more scared I got the more it seemed true. It is possible from all the stuff you have been dabbling in to get your imagination worked up. This is an alternative to being possessed or crazy. Almost everyone has heard ghost stories and then imagined things. Don't worry, I've been looking for a case that I thought was a real possession and can't find one.
-- Coy (afraid@bar.com), April 11, 2004.