Hi,

I have been offered an M4 chrome serial # 1207978 for $820.00 USD. I have checked the camera out and it in perfect order and good condition with only slight marks on the body from the stap.

It seems like a really good buy but I though I would check with this group first to see what you thought. I have looked at a number of magazines and it looks like a good deal too me but just want a 2nd opinion!

Thanks

Mark

-- Mark Griffin (gripper@iprimus.com.au), March 09, 2001

Answers

If you go here:

http://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm

and scroll down to "M Buyer's Checklist", you will find a complete checklist to go through. Always count on a CLA if the camera has not had one in the last five to ten years. You may not need it but at least you will not be taken by surprize. You can buy user M6s in the $1200 range so if it is a user M4 and you have to buy a meter, CLA, etc, you might want to just spring for the M6 instead.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@home.com), March 09, 2001.

It sounds like a fairly good price for an M4 in such a condition in Hong Kong or Japan. According to James L. Lager's Leica Illustrated Guide (N.Y., Morgan & Morgan, 1975), p.51, the M4 was introduced in 1967 at No. 1175001 and production was temporarily hlated in 1971 at No. 1286700, and then resumed in 1974 at No. 1380001 on the black chrome finish version. Greater detail of M4's serial numbers can be found in Stephen Gandy's website at http://www.cameraquest.com /mtype.htm.

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), March 10, 2001.

In the u.s. market right now that would be an astonishingly low price for an M4 in the condition you describe and if it needs a CLA by somebody like Gandy, you are still not going to touch $1200. Besides, an M4 is much better than an M6. I'm not sure if it was Gjon Mili or someone else who, asked why he didn't carry a light meter said "Because if I had one, I might use it, and if I used it it might break, and then where would I be?" Holding a Leica up to your face long enough to take a reading misses the whole point of a leica, the camera so fast it's almost invisible. While you are obsessing over correct exposure you are also letting the subject notice that he or she is being pointed at. D

-- david kelly (dmkedit@aol.com), March 10, 2001.

David, are you suggesting to just guess the exposure, or shoot with whatever the camera happens to be set at instead of using a meter? I do agree that the older cameras have a nicer feel to them than the current M6 cameras. I sure wish there was some way to retrofit a tiny TTL meter into the older cameras with a two led readout in the finder (yea, I know it will likely never be something that is possible for many reasons). I personally like to have a meter to help me set exposures so I don't get a once in a lifetime shot and end up 2 or 3 stops under exposed. The little Minolta CLE with its AE shutter lets me shoot quickly and worry about getting what I want in the frame and in focus while the camera spots the speed for me. I still think there is room for a Leica M6-AE or M7 body with an AE shutter.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), March 10, 2001.

Andrew: CLE's are great! I too would sure welcome an AE leica but meanwhile, print films have a lot of lattitude. Metering your palm, taking an incident reading in similar light and even guessing on the basis of experience BEFORE you go into a situation are all preferable to keeping that camera up where it can be noticed. I also think it significant that most great street photographers have been zone focusers. You can correct errors in exposure back in the darkroom -but not if you missed the shot! The argument as to whether the hand-fitted Leicas were better than the "go-no-go" fitted Leicas is never going to be resolved but the M4 has one indisputable advantage over the M6: there is no built-in temptation to hesitate while you correct exposure. - good hunting! -david

-- david Kelly (dmkedit@aol.com), March 10, 2001.

Hi Mark,

If the camera is clean and functions properly I would jump on the it ASAP. M4's have gone up in value significantly and are considered to be the last of the bench made M cameras. I have one and wouldn't trade it for anything.

Regards, Tom G.

-- T. Gallagher (tgallagher10@yahoo.com), March 12, 2001.

I just saw an empty box for an M4 sell for over $200 on ebay. I guess there is no end to what collectors will place value on.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), March 13, 2001.