Whitelaw rides again

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Unk's Wild Wild West : One Thread

TimeBombY2000 ... TimeBomb2000 ...... [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. Topics listing | View posts individually | Topic Commands | Email this to a friend << Prev Topic Next Topic >> Author Comment David Whitelaw Registered User (3/8/01 8:58:13 am) Reply | Edit

[ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade Supremacists say state law allows it, threaten suit if city tries to stop them

Bill Morlin - Staff writer

Aryan Nations members who plan to march July 7 in downtown Coeur d'Alene want to carry loaded rifles and handguns, the group's staff leader said Wednesday.

"State law says we have the right to wear sidearms and carry rifles in upright positions," Aryan spokesman Shaun Winkler said.

"We plan to exercise that right when we march in Coeur d'Alene on July 7," he said. "State law is on our side on this issue."

Winkler estimated that 80 to 100 neo-Nazis, Aryans and other white supremacists will show up for the parade.

"We will be exercising our Second Amendment rights to bear arms," he said.

The city of Coeur d'Alene allows military veterans to march with firearms in the annual 4th of July parade, Winkler said.

"The veterans carry guns," he said, "so what's good for them should be good for us."

Winkler said he plans to wear a holstered 9mm pistol and carry an AK-47 semiautomatic assault rifle.

Aryan founder Richard Butler, who has a concealed weapons permit, also will be wearing a sidearm, Winkler said.

"We have no intention of pointing our guns at anyone, and we have no intention of shooting anyone," Winkler said. "We just want to exercise our constitutional rights."

The Aryan Nations has a city-issued permit for July 7, but the specific route for the Saturday parade hasn't been set.

The permit says no firearms or other weapons are allowed.

The parade will coincide with the annual Aryan World Congress, which will be held at Farragut State Park. The former naval base, near Athol, Idaho, is where sailors were trained for World War II, when the United States was fighting the Nazis.

The Aryans got a state permit for that encampment after losing their compound as a result of a $6.3 million civil judgment.

Winkler said he and others who attend the encampment at Farragut also will have their guns there and intend to fire them at a designated shooting area in the park.

The Aryan Nations got a federal court ruling in 1999 allowing its members to march in Coeur d'Alene after the City Council denied a parade permit. The American Civil Liberties Union headed the legal fight and forced the city to pay the Aryans' legal costs.

A federal judge ruled that Coeur d'Alene couldn't deny parade permits to the Aryans or prevent them from marching down Sherman Avenue like other groups do.

Winkler said if police attempt to stop Aryans from marching with their firearms, the city of Coeur d'Alene could face another lawsuit.

"They will be taking the chance of falsely arresting us," Winkler said, "and if that happens we will ask the ACLU to back us in another lawsuit."

Police Lt. Donald Jiran, of the city's support services unit, said he has spoken twice with Winkler about the parade but was unaware of the marchers' plans to carry firearms.

•Bill Morlin can be reached at (509) 459-5444 or by e-mail at billm@spokesman.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obo former Onebyone Registered User (3/8/01 9:11:32 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well this will be interesting to watch. I don't support any group who thinks they are better than someone else due to race. I do support their right to keep and bear arms and freedom to march like any other group. That is part of the price you have to pay to be free is allow others to remaind free too, even if you disagree with them.

obo

David Whitelaw Registered User (3/8/01 9:17:18 am) Reply | Edit

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem I have with this is when Veterans march their rifles are unloaded. I would think it would be more of a safety issue.

A T Hagan Registered User (3/8/01 9:19:15 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the law in Idaho allows other groups to publicly carry firearms then these groups have the same rights. 'nuff said.

..........Alan.

David Whitelaw Registered User (3/8/01 9:21:59 am) Reply | Edit

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let them carry unloaded firearms just like the rest do.

Read A Lot2 Registered User (3/8/01 9:22:13 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since Black Panthers are allowed to openly display their weapons why not this group? I don't agree with their philosophy but then I don't agree with the Black Panthers either. In fact, I don't agree with anybodies philosophy except my own. We do have a second amendment in this country and I applaud anyone for displaying and trying to enforce it.

Bill Clo Registered User (3/8/01 9:29:17 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have to wonder WHY they want loaded guns. Very strange...

Now, having some loaded mags on person, fine. If it makes them feel better.

Also agree that there is an safety issue. I can see some idiot tripping, or otherwise having an oops and hosing down someone by accident. Perfect excuse to go hogwild.

If state law says that they can carry rifles in an upright position and not pointing at anyone, fine. Does it state what condition the gun has to be in, as in loaded mag, no loaded chamber, or does it ignore this entirely?

If it is allowed for them to carry the rifles loaded, I see no problem, as long as they do it safely, and all the spectators are also allowed to carry rifles. This way, there is less of an intimidation factor present. Just make sure that the protestors are on one side of the street only; safer, should there be an shooting incident. Can't have 2 groups of protestors shooting at the Aryans in the middle of them now can we? All purely speculative and hypothetical of course.

Obo former Onebyone Registered User (3/8/01 9:30:17 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David,

I understand your safety concerns but I think they should be loaded as that is part of the whole of a fire arm. That would like telling a black person (not picking on black people just using as example) that they can go into Woolworths, sit at the counter but they can not eat. Well defeats the whole purpose of being able to get to the counter, if you know what I mean

obo

David Whitelaw Registered User (3/8/01 9:31:03 am) Reply | Edit

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thats not the point. Do they really need to be loaded? Tempers really flare at this parade. As I said let them carry unloaded firearms. It's called common sense.

Senses On Registered User (3/8/01 9:40:09 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David,

The point is not whether they need to. The point is about excercising their inherent right to do so.

Remember, the whole point of a *concealed* carry permit is to allow people to carry secretly. In NH there are no laws against carrying visible guns anywhere (except gummint property [as a result of gummint having been targeted in prior cases]), and to the best of my knowledge there are no laws preventing anyone from carrying loaded guns. Hunters and recreational shooters do it all the time -- and in groups as well.

Any laws that infringe on self-armament in any way are unconstitutional, despite their passage and enforcement.

Read A Lot2 Registered User (3/8/01 9:40:10 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, according to that logic, if tempers can flare than NOBODY should be allowed to carry a loaded gun. Also, if safety is such a big issue than NOBODY should be allowed to own a gun. But, of course, police don't fall into these catagories. sheeeshh

David Whitelaw Registered User (3/8/01 9:52:13 am) Reply | Edit

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let them carry their weapons unloaded like any military drill group does. If someone droped their weapon and it accidently discharced and killed some little kid in a stroller how would you feel about it then? CDA is a resort town and is loaded with tourists in the summer.

Senses On Registered User (3/8/01 10:03:22 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David--

The whole reason for a constitutional government and the Bill of Rights is to guarantee that people can’t tell you can’t do something just because *they* don’t think it is a good idea.

You have NO real argument here -- only “feelings.” Thank God we are not yet completely governed by the “feelings” of whomever.

Lots of things are dangerous, but it doesn’t follow that they are unlawful or unprotected by the Constitution. I “feel” that young reckless and arrogant drivers are a real danger to my survival on a daily basis. Does this mean they shouldn’t be allowed to drive?

Look at how many people are killed at air shows. Should we not allow any air shows?

Edited to add:

If any in this group (which I admittedly have no fondness for) *commit a crime* with their gun(s), they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, or shot down in their tracks. There is no reason to believe that any group this familiar with weapons is likely to have an accidental discharge, whether they trip or not.

The best thing to do is let them march and ignore them.

Edited by: Senses On at: 3/8/01 10:06:30 am

David Whitelaw Registered User (3/8/01 10:12:47 am) Reply | Edit

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So why do you think military drill teams carry their weapons unloaded? It's all about safety and the accidental discharge of a weapon in a crowd. Once again common sense. One other thing. During air shows the planes are not loaded for bear,no nukes,cluster bombs,or munitions of any type. I think this is just in case there might be an accident.

Edited by: David Whitelaw at: 3/8/01 10:28:00 am

David Whitelaw Registered User (3/8/01 10:18:58 am) Reply | Edit

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I like your style.

hick Registered User (3/8/01 10:33:11 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ahh, another way to get the sheeples to go along with more gun regulations, my, my, how easily we are divided. Maybe a few gov't plants in the arian [get a life] nations suggested everyone should march with guns, maybe not.??

Read A Lot2 Registered User (3/8/01 10:39:36 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hick

Most of what the Aryan nation consists of is government plants so your point is well taken.

jed brulen Registered User (3/8/01 11:21:53 am) Reply

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How Ayrans carry their weapons, whether bayonets fixed or locked & loaded is an individual common sense issue and not in the domain of govt regulation.

David Whitelaw Registered User (3/8/01 11:53:02 am) Reply | Edit

Re: [ot]Aryans want to carry loaded guns in parade. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jed, the very point I was trying to make. I guess common sense and Aryans don't belong in the same sentence.



-- Manny's little brother (No@dip.com), March 08, 2001


Moderation questions? read the FAQ