After reading all the different opinions on the merits of a youth academy, I thought I'd start a thread on that topic. I've heard lots of talk on the financial pros/cons, but I haven't seen any actual figures that demonstrate this. And what exactly is an academy, and how does this differ from our current youth setup?

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

Answers

On the answers page.

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

As far as I can gather an academy would mean having kids from a very early age and teach them the skills which would make them a top class player. A bit like how teams like Ajax and PSJ do now. Get the kids interested at a young age,let them enjoy the game while showing them how the game should be played. Hopefully by the time they are ready to make their debut they will have built up an affinity with the club, so there will be no jumping ship at the first opportunity. Did that make sense?

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

As far as I can gather an academy would mean having kids from a very early age and teach them the skills which would make them a top class player. A bit like how teams like Ajax and PSG do now. Get the kids interested at a young age,let them enjoy the game while showing them how the game should be played. Hopefully by the time they are ready to make their debut they will have built up an affinity with the club, so there will be no jumping ship at the first opportunity. Did that make sense?

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

It made more sense the second time.

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

So does our current youth setup consist of just the U-17 and U-19 teams? I thought we'd had Chopra on the books since he was a bairn?

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

And a question for Buff too! In your view, can you manufacture a decent player from an average base given sufficient time. Perhaps like the Nevilles? Not great, but competent.

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

Can't we only sign players 'on the books' when they are old enough 16 or 17? Chopra only recently signed a contract with the club, he could have joined another club if he wished.

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

As I see it the term youth may be a bit misleading, imagine in future the actual building is in place , the bottom end of the scale users would be your 6-10 year olds, in all probability recomended by their schools, boy`s club , or a selection from trials.(all local). They would attend by invitation for one/two evenings per week for skill training etc, still turning out for their respective school and boy`s club teams. Guessing again will be the 11 to 14 age group, again local lads, their maybe a `S` Form involved at this stage, still turning out for their schools etc , at this juncture it would be a worthwhile move to get those players who are aiming to move onto coaching their first charges. From 14 -18 comes the quantum leap as I see the academy set-up, those involved at this stage may not nesscarily be local, or even British , looking for the cream from over the world, may have to provide schooling facilities for a few boy`s, the football apprentice vision of the friendly landlady running their digs is old hat, purpose built chalets , well supervised for our future stars, this should all tie in with the new proposed training facilities , a club from cradle to grave , sense I think so ,the in word on this forum now is VISION , have they got it , lets wait and see

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

>>>>>a club from cradle to grave<<<<<

Crikey - I hadn't realised the injury crisis was a bad as that.

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

Screach, you are becoming too flippant with these throw away one liners, new friends on here should be made aware that there is also a serious side to the man,

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

Yes we need a Youth Academy. An FA approved one at that, with qualified coaches and a pastoral care attitude to get the most out of the raw football potential. As I understand it, these academies are quite regulated, because they take kids under 16. As Buff says, often under 10.
I would expect the academy to have similar aims to the Fulham one, as an example; Purpose and Aims of the Academy Fulham Football Club would like to welcome all the players, parents and staff to the Academy and recognise that we all share the great opportunity to be involved in what is a very positive new era of development in youth football. At the Academy we aim to create an environment that both the player and the parents feel comfortable and that provides the necessary support for each player to reach their full potential. It will be structured and have specific aims that the experienced, highly motivated, professional staff will guide the young players toward. The Academy aims to develop: Players' outstanding football potential, progressing ultimately to first team level. Through development of both technical and tactical aspects. Through education in the benefits of a healthy lifestyle, fitness and nutrition. Highest standards in a player's personal, social and academic activities. Through communication in different situations players' will learn how to interact with others. The academy's educational support will enhance and encourage players to reach their full potential. The level of conduct and self-discipline, which is expected of professional footballers. Recognise the value of a disciplined approach, the need for practice and punctuality. Recognising that through the players' actions he representing not only himself but also Fulham Football Club. Partnership with parents, schools and colleges. By encouraging communication between teachers, parents and the staff at Fulham Football club, the players' will receive all round support To achieve these aims the club will make the following commitments: It will employ a dedicated team of professionals whose shared goal is Excellence both on and off the field. It will ensure that by in service training and the distribution of information Academy players will be trained in the latest skills and techniques. To provide a co-ordinated, centralised Academy coaching and administration structure to create continuity in the development of Academy players. To create comprehensive monitoring programmes covering coaching, education medical and related issues. To refine and update where necessary any Academy practices that the monitoring has shown need improvement. To establish player and parent forums to encourage parents to play a supportive role to players progressing through the Academy. To provide and maintain Academy members with access to top quality facilities for coaching, matches, academic activities and healthcare. The academy recognises that for any of these aims to be achieved the player must, most importantly, enjoy playing and participating in his own development. It must be acknowledged by all involved at Fulham Academy that regardless of the input not all players will achieve professional status. Ability and skill are important but sometimes very talented players do not become professional footballers. It is hugely important to the academy that the development of the "whole player" has enabled the individual to succeed in whatever walk of life they eventually choose.

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

Wow, now there's a solid chunk of text to get your teeth into...sorry about the formatting ;-)

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

Ajax have the patent , rest are playing catchy up ,

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

Mainly directed to McBeth McCrilick , With all this talk on academys, developments , transfer legislation , what odds would you offer me on a wager that either the U.S.A or Australia would win the World Cup by 2020 , odds on single bet each, odds for either/or, I need to make provisions for my grandson and this is a knocking bet in my eyes,

Mac, I am deadly serious , when the above two go for sumfink, they make it happen, advice pse

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

"Ajax have the patent, rest are playing catchy up".

Looks like it will take us 10 years just to catch even Fulham up.
How utterly depressing!

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

So what you're saying KIWI TOON, IS GIVE ALL THE BEST LOCAL TALENT TO SUNDERLAND AND THE SMOGS????

Of course we need an acedemy, it's much better to learn and farm quality footballers from your own set up, SIMPLY BECAUSE:

They are more likely to support the toon;

They are more likely to learn (old dogs etc) about the clubs values, and cultures, thus you could get good footballers without conflict, eg. Marthelino, Maric, Goma etc (this is why I want to see Clarky, Elliot, Bridges, Matt Jansen back home, we need a settled home culture desperately WITH GOOD LOCAL FOOTBALLERS. Barcelona have them, Man Utd have them, Juventus have them, Liverpool, so why not us?KDog, did he know of the need of a culture???? Or did he just lack competence?);

A good acedemy will learn the players loyalty and respect for the club, the fans, An OTT eg. just like Hitler did with his youth.

Thus as the game moves on in to this new era, the big clubs desperatley need acedemies, with local loyal talent. To not have an acedemy is leaving you to risk of a cancerous culture forming in the club, the club then leaves itself open to getting used and abused by mercenaries.

Local farmed player = Loyalty..............

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

Sorry Buff. Midlife crisis. Oops, there I go again. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.

As for the accedemy, if it's good enough for the police, it's good enough for me I think it's a good idea. I don't believe a "buying club" will be able to survive on purchase alone, unless they are mega-rich, and I don't count us in that boat. This country has produced a number of greaqt kids, and wor region robably more than our fair share. I cite Messrs Gascoigne, Beardsley, Waddell, Shearer, Carrick, Kennedy, Robson, Charlton, Charlton............the list goes on. But how many of that lot have slipped thru our scouting net? Too many. An accedemy, in the bairns'home area will look after the bairns yet still allow family access.

If we don't do that, we will lose out in a lot of tallent. The sooner this gets off the ground, the better.

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

Buff - I'm not a betting man, but I don't think I'd take up your offer if I was. I've thought for a long time that the USA has the potential to mop up. However, the thing going against them is the culture in the schools. Soccer is catching up, but IMHO, will remain in 5th place behind "football", baseball, hockey and basketball. It may rise to 4th, but unless it goes higher, I can't see then topping the world pile.

Now Oz - there's a differnt story. I suspect the only thing to hold them back is size, but as we all know, that isn't everyting. However, I think they would have to export their natural talent at a fairly early stage to more "serious" nations - most likely Europe - to gain the necessary experience. It's not like cricket - there are few countries involved. Footie is a lot different, but I'd rate the Oz Boys higher than the US of A by 2020.

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

A nation that can produce an atomic bomb from concept to product in 18 months should never be underestimated. Once the United States brings its enormous resources to bear on a problem a solution is almost inevitable. As I go around the country I see field upon field of youngsters -- boys and girls of all ages playing football. I see them playing baseball in season, but the kids have taken to football like ducks to water. My two granddaughters are quite obsessed by the game, and I know of so many other parents and grandparents whose children share the obsession. A nation of 300 million with enormous wealth can, I think, in the not too distant future produce a teasm that can challenfe the best.

-- Anonymous, March 08, 2001

T Smith: I'm actually in favour of a youth academy, I just thought I'd get a bit of a debate going. One of the reasons for that was Shepherd said he was delaying the start of an academy because of the transfer scenario. I think the reasons in favour of an academy are:

1. We would have a core of loyal players who would die for the cause. They'll have lived and breathed black and white for 10-15 years before they make the team.

2. Great young local players are less likely to get away (eg Carrick) as almost every kid who plays football in the local area will end up having a session at the academy.

3. It should be possible to manufacture highly skilled players with good training habits. It might only find 1 great player every 10 years (eg Gazza or Beardsley) but it should be able to churn out decent premiership quality players.

4. It would make financial sense. After the bricks and mortar cost, how much would it cost per year to run? £2 million? Even under the new transfer regulations players won't be cheap. So selling some of the average kids each year, plus the saving from making our own stars we'd be much better off.

Isn't it depressing though that Fulham and Millwall already have academies?

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2001

Buff

This is my view of the bookies logic if you asked them for a price.

William Hill currently have odds for 2002. We can use this as a basis. They have USA at 100-1 to win, Australia at 250-1. There will be 4 more up to 2018. So say 5 opportunities.

World Cups are either won by Brazil, Italy, Germany, Argentina or the host nation. (Quick question which is the single exception ?)

Lets be realistic and say there will not be a leap from current performance to World beaters before the next World Cup either. This is fair as most of the players in the team now will still be there in 4 years, and the younger players will be too young, and we know young players don't win trophies. This would leave 2010, 2014 and 2018 as likely chances. 2006 is also in Germany which will favour European countries.

I'll be amazed (again) if the 2010 competition isn't in South Africa. 2014 should be due to go to South America and 2018 should be off to the South Pacific. As I said at the start hosting is a huge plus, and as seen at the Olympics it brings out even more national pride. What you're betting on is Australia hosting the tournament.

If they are 250-1 for 2002 I'd guess they'd be roughly the same for 2006, 2010, 2014. If they hosted the thing then I'd guess the bookies would slash the odds to 25s or 33s. These are the odds you'd get quoted. Not convinced it's worth it.

Completely aside did you see Young Kenny died a couple of weeks ago. Thought he was an even better bet for Aintree as he'd been dropped down 8lbs from last year. Maybe not now though.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2001

Mac -: Quick answer, West Auckland as opposed to Woolwich Arsenal , scorer Denis Waterman, Yes I did see that Young Kenny had died,

Looks like Cheltenham will be in April now , one of the few major sports events I have not attended >>>>>>>yet!! , The good lady has "Horse of the Year" show on her must see list first. The time to pack up is when the Indoor World Carpet Bowling gets a mentopn

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2001

No a real Jules Rimet winner, not just Denis Waterman and his baggy trousered mates

When we retire we plan to do all racecourses, highlight fo fair lady is Ascot, I look forward to Cheltenham, maybe Ebor too

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2001

Ladies day at York , (Ebor) , is superb , cannot remember excact year but I remember at the end of the last race bluffing my way into the owners/trainers and the wife taking a photograph of me beside the FA Cup on display, Man U were the winners. Best all male venue - 12 St Legers on the trot at Donny , and finishing off with a meal and entertainment at Kellingley Miners Club. Most fruitful , Perth , first race , 3 horse , outsider of 3 @ 25-1 , big black animal, took a fancy to her in the parade , banged on a £10 win , and then went down the card. I have seen more drink thrown down the neck,especially at Perth over the years , trips up from Geordieland etc , and have yet to witness any trouble ,considering that the Police prescence is low . Aye Mac , its a far cry from the auld days, when the milky used to collect your tanner each ways on his round , fag one side of his mouth,so he could talk out of the other, rustling the CO-Op tokens in one pouch and re-arranging the betting slips in the secret one, My father was still putting on his 5p yankees to the day he died, at his funeral I hoyed 2x50p ew on the coffin and a card saying he was a "Candy Man to the End". Next time you go to a race meeting Mac I will give you this tip., Stand next to the rails, just close your eyes,for two minutes or a 7 fur race and take in the sounds it really is something else, its akin to the lads running oot,

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2001

Mac. Close the stable door, back to football, top o the heed Uraguay!!

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2001

Only been to Perth once, enjoyed it lots but it was when kids were wee and it was a bit of a distraction.

About 8-10 years ago there was a Rangers players plus pals trip to Perth races. One of the attendees wasn't a Rangers player (nearly was) and is now the manager of his old SPL club. Apparently him and Butcher were completely out of it by the time the train got back to Dunfermline. Don't know what happened to Butcher but our bespectacled, respected manager was so pissed he fell asleep in the park and slept the night away under a hedge row. Being a good looking lad everyone presumed he had just scored with a lady and was safe and well. He turned up at home the next morngin covered in mud and bits of his stomach.

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2001