Is anyone else scared by the current position the club is in? Coming out of the Gallowgate on Saturday, the number of people saying that they would not be renewing their season tickets was incredible. Obviously a few of them will change their minds, but these were normal, working NUFC fans. I can't see a full take-up on corporate seats because basically pepople are paying Man Utd prices to watch Unibond stuff and all the free red wine in the world won't make this fundamentally bad deal a good one. This potentially leaves us in terrible trouble. We really need to be selling at least 42000 seats per game to break even and to fill up , have cup runs and probably be in Europe to make real progress. This summer, we won't be in Europe and will struggle to sign class players so we may well end up with the same old stuff next season and will struggle even more, putting off more season ticket holders. The logical outcome of this doesn't bear thinking about but it does beg the question, how the f...k did a club which has no real competition and is much loved by its community end up staring down the barrel of a gun like this? Short-termism? Bad management? A long, hard look needs to be taken on an urgent basis.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

Answers

They are staring down a cocked gun and the other end is up their own arse!

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

Couldn't agree more. Bad management from chairmen to managers over the last few years have paralysed the club - this transfer business is a cover for not having the funds left to spend.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

Did we borrow heavily to buy all these players during the Keegan, Dalglish and Gullit era's? If not am I right in saying that the money was simply pasrt of the balance sheet which was allocated to transfers and was spent, money created to spend on players if you like?

Does this then mean that we have the same amounts of money available now because we are selling even more tickets and turnover has not diminished significantly. Perhaps I'm looking at things too simply??!:0)

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

No, we borrowed for player - I think we still owe money for Tino! What is crippling us is the stadium debt - I think it's 5 million per year.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

dougal, i haven't looked at the clubs financials but:

stadium debt of 4.5 mil per year should be offset by (16,000 x 500) 8 mil per year incremental ticket income (assuming 16,000 extra seats at 500 per season)

what's really crippling us is paying top whack wages to average players. how much do lee, speed barton, and shearer make combined? not much change from 4.5 mil for strictly mid table performers.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

How did we beat Leeds 3-1 away? It's down to fitness and character.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

Thing is, Swifty, we can't sustain that level of performance week in, week out. Playing our hearts out for three games at Christmas almost killed them and certainly knocked us out of the Cup.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

It's down to fitness then? Belief? what? I am 100% sure it isn't Bobby's fault, it's a bit of bad luck injury wise, fear, and maybe (shoot me down in flames) a lack of motivation?

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

No, Villa knocked us out of the cup. Because we are poor, and they were less so.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

Douggie...what IS Man Utd prices?

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

The players wages last season were £23 million, this season will be around the £20 million mark, As for the the season ticket money. The area in the SJH stand costs £350 so that's about a million off the £8 million figure. You can't see half of the seats on the top tier being sold if things continue like they are. The club will be paying back more than the seats are bringing in.

The only way for things to improve are big name players to join in the summer, before season ticket aplications go put, giving us something to look forward to.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

Don't be silly....we'll lose some prawn sandwich munchers and that's it.....

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

rik,

the numbers still say that the stadium development does generate a cash benefit IF the seats are sold.

I'm not too bothered about the team's current capitulation. the board know the numbers and they will have realized that a complete clear out of the dross, some tasty new signings and the promise of a competitive team is the only way for the club to sell next season's tix and hence, stay solvent.

a jammy sixth place finish would have been an excuse to serve up more of the same crap next year.

i do feel sorry for you folks who've had to suffer thru this season. i'm not going to get out of bed to watch the toon until the quality of the team resembles a decent PL outfit. I youse want to reinforce the point, go fishing instead of attending the next home game.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

We deeply appreciate you feeling sorry for us George, but you see it's a compulsive thing - like if you don't buy a ticket you can't expect to win the lottery. You clearly don't get it.

It also gives us the moral right to bitch when things aren't going well. Besides which we've paid wor £400 and yer don't get any refund if yer divvin gan. But hey, thanks anyway!

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

Less "on the edge of the precipice", and more a slow slide into mediocrity and stagnation. We're going nowhere, fast. Short- termism seems the hallmark of NUFC. Judging by the share-price the city has little confidence in the club's management and everytime Mr Shepherd opens his big fat mouth I have little difficulty understanding why.

I have the utmost respect for Bobby Robson but he isn't the future and any club with ambition would already be addressing the issue of his successor (with Robson moving upstairs?). NUFC place him on a rolling 12 month contract and do nothing. Any club serious about getting the best out of its players would long ago have invested in top class training facilities. NUFC is still at the building stage. Any club serious about getting the most out of expensive non-British signings does its utmost to make them feel welcome and integrated. NUFC does (allegedly) next to nothing. No wonder they all underperform or want to leave at the first available opportunity.

That many attribute yet another sub-standard performance against Man City to the absence of Speed and Lee in midfield says how far we've fallen. We're a 'massive' club, owned and run by a set of unsavoury spivs talking big and acting small. The Mackems could well be in Europe next season, whilst on current form we'll be lucky if we avoid getting caught up in a relegation fight.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

I am hearing that Lamar Hunt is interested in NUFC but wants more than , as he believes it is possable to make big money from our club with a resonable ivestment. If he does come into the club, he'll want to freshen the faces at NUFC. Can't see him keeping Shepherd becuse of his tainted past. What about Bobby Robson as chairman, KK as manager with a decent sized transfer kitty, Beardo, Venners and Bez as coaches. An investment of £50 million could see a club worth £80 million become a multi national clomgomerate worth ten times as much (like Man U) within a few years.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

The Missus been polishing your crystal balls again Rik??

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

I'd be interested in hearing more of what Hunt really plans IF this takeover rumour has any truth to it. I'm sceptical of an American businessman taking over an EPL club. He's no stranger to 'soccer' but how much does he know about the English league and players? On the other hand a fresh face and fresh approach could be just what's needed.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

He probably sees a club with a £50 milion turnover per year, being avalable for less than that, and sees the future of Internet TV as generating vast amounts of revenue for a select few clubs that can get to the top of the world soccer tree.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

hoi clarky read up! - others look away if you want.

i don't get what exactly? your incrementalist logic maybe?

the right to bitch and moan when stuff isn't going well isn't just the privledge of the season tic holder. in past years i've spent cash to watch carney, johnson, rafferty, shinton et al. play football. if blind stupidity or lack of an imagination on what to do on saturday is the measure then i'm just as good as you.

against charlton i got bored watching the toon (even before the goals) on saturday, i felt ambivalent. its like your childhood sweetheart developing a fat arse bad breath greasy hair and spots. oh well.

back to my original point. this is going to be a pivotal six months for the toon, the decisions taken in the off season will define the next 5 years. think about what a perceived drop in season tic demand does to sales in a 53k capacity ground. i suggested (half tounge in cheek) that youse lot (the customer) communicate with the product provider, by doing something else next home game. i would.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

Hey George, I wasn't intending to be confrontational but on re-reading the post my wording wasn't very clever. Apologies for that.

I was clumsily attempting to suggest that for most Toon fanatics boycotting games isn't a serious option, and for ST holders who have already spent their £400 it would be commercially fatuous anyway - however, on further reflection a game played in an empty stadium when there are something like 48,000 ST holders would cetainly convey a fairly powerful message, even if it didn't do too much to help the team in the short-term.

BTW, I don't regard watching Newcastle on a Saturday afternoon as indicative of either my lack of imagination or blind stupidity, but perhaps that is just down to my incrementalist logic.
Truce?

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

How can you even think about getting Keegan back? 1. He wouldn't be interested. 2. He's a tactical oaf. Even the Premiership has moved forward in the last five years, and he would be out of his depth. Stop paying vastly over-rated players huge wages, save the money for the best manager you can afford (someone who has actually achieved things), and let him manage. We'll be shafted for years until we get our youth policy right. Stonehouse has identified mid-table mediocrity as the stability the club needs, so we might as well get used to it. We always win bugger-all (Texaco and Watneys notwithstanding), so nothing will be different in the end.

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2001

Not going won't change anything. Not going ten years ago in an attempt to remove a board had a sensible bit of reasoning behind it. Who would we be trying to punish by not going now ?

Bringing together other threads.... I'm not sure ANY transfer will excite me at the moment. We have had so many false dawns with new arrivals that I just wouldn't have the energy to believe this time it would be any different. (The only signing which would really make my day would be Phillips but I think that has too comes from too many psychological faults).

What I need is to see youth coming through. I've always had more time (too much time) for young players. They are the new born babies, fresh, starry eyed, ready to bust a gut, missing in bad habits, they can do no wrong. I love Aaron Hughes and Shola, I loved Ossie's young uns, and still feel a warmth towards Alan Thomson that any other bought in player from around then could never match. I know youth players don't always make it, only Gazza really really made it in the top division from the 85 youth team.

We need our own superkids to come through. I think Shola's great, although lots of it could be put down to attitude. We need to get another one to come through. Failing that then the summer signing has to be Michael Carrick. He should have been ours and should be here. West Ham don't need the money after selling Rio, but we don't need the money either, we need players like Carrick.

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2001

Guy I spoke to on the train wanted us to go for O'Neill who is worried about how much cash Celtic will give him. Failing that Burley

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2001

mac, i wouldn't let O'Neill near SJP nor Burly

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2001

his Celtic side has all the miserly defensiveness of Leicester, but he has in Larsson, Petta, Agathe and even Chris Sutton a far more attack minded side than he ever was able to construct at Leicester.

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2001

MacB, I agree re youth team players, partly because they are all ours and have no history with another club but also because their little mistakes are all learning curve things while we rightly or wrongly expect the finished article from a player who may be younger but cost a million. The other thing is that they suggest that someone somewhere has the longterm interests of the club at heart.

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2001

I have never loved Alan Shearer the way I could love Shola. Shearer may have been wonderful, and hugely symbolic of us seeming to be a big club, but he isn't Stevie Watson or Robbie or Lee Clark or longer ago Gazza or even Neil MacDonald, bless his cotton spots.

Locally cultivated produce tastes better

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2001

I must say I bought into the Shearer thing in a way but one night at a BBS curry night, Geordie ruined my faith by telling me that Shearer supported Liverpool as a kid. Big Al has always seemed a slight fraud to me since then.

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2001