Eyewitness Match reports here

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Unofficial Newcastle United Football Club BBS : One Thread

considering we had no midfield to speak of...certainly a major factor in how we did today...Just how did we look? Was it as bad as it sounded on teh webcast? Esp second half. We actually sounded decent during the first half.

I'm holding off on suicide or other violent acts until I hear from those who watched this one. Besides my cat has just insisted on getting up a rousing game of catch so making me laugh cause he's such a little goofball. ;-))

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2001

Answers

I had really decided not to post anything until I'd slept on it - however, in the absence of any other volunteers I'll offer a few comments for those around the world who probably can't believe we lost at home to Man City.

I'm afraid I can't offer any particular insightful observation other than we were extremely poor, and contrived to make a spectacularly ordinary team look quite competent. To rub salt into open wounds, Steve Howey was aguably the MOTM.

With both Gary Speed and surprisingly, Rob Lee, missing, we were absolutely pitiful in midfield - and therein lies the real story of the game. Solano and Dyer were both utterly anonymous, leaving Acuna to fight a battle he was never, ever going to win in midfield. While he also looked poor, I would argue their were extenuating circumstances.

While we didn't defend particularly well as a team (as usual), and gave away yet another feeble goal, I didn't think the four defenders did too badly individually. Quinn had a tough time against Kanchelsis, but stuck to his job, managed to get forward on occasion, and provided a better supply to the front men than Solano, who was pitiful. Although there were undoubtedly other candidates, I'd have yanked Solano off at HT, yet again.

Up front, Ameobi did quite well, and was perhaps our best performer on the day. He generally held the ball up and laid it off well, and managed a couple of half-decent shots. I'm quite certain I will be shot down in flames by saying it, but I thought AS did OK after a long lay-off. However, there is no question that he should have been subbed instead of Ameobi on the hour when he had very obviously run out of steam. Only YBR can explain why he missed the perfect opportunity to spell out to Shearer that he can't expect to play 90 minutes of every game - but presumably, he thought AS represented a better chance of getting the equaliser than Amoebi at that point. Overall, we created fewer chances than City, and didn't trouble Weaver very much at all.

The thing that troubled me most was the apparent lack of urgency in the team, and desire to get forward and be really positive, at least until we went behind, by which point our entire game had deteriorated to the point were we couldn't pass the ball 5yds to our own man.

For me, the key area, as usual, was midfield were we had absolutely nothing to offer throughout. Without any exaggeration we were feeble in this area - weak in the challenge, no aggression, lacking in our marking, movement, passing, and creative spark. I fear that right now they look like a team playing under pressure, and frighteningly unable to deal with it.

For the record, there was a fair amount of booing at the end, but nothing like what I had expected and feared we might witness. While I suppose it is an understandable expression of disapproval, it certainly does nothing to help the cause, and IMO is highly regrettable. The real bottom line in all this is that we have a squad with too many players who are not quite good enough, and containing not enough high quality players.

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2001


Just home, p*ssed and VERY p*ssed off! We had NO midfield, nobody could be @rsed to try for a 50/50 ball or run for a loose ball. I didn't boo them off, i will NEVER do that, but I stood next to the dugout and glared at them as they came off! What the hell is the matter with them? In the Strawbeery we looked at the fixture list and decided that we can scrape three points from the remaining fixtures to keep us safe from relagation but thats about the lot!

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2001

I fear that right now they look like a team playing under pressure, and frighteningly unable to deal with it.

Interesting comments, Clarky. After the match, Metro said the same thing. That they played as though they were terrified to make a mistake. Glad to hear that they didn't seem to lack commitment. I feared the worst when I heard the line-up. The 4 in midfield were never going to be any good defensively. I only hoped that with all the attacking power we'd manage to score 1 more than them.

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2001


Thanx Clarky and cheer up Steph gal, you if anyone cannot do any more, they do not deserve you, Worrying for me is if Kanchekskis was going past Quinn and I am sure McBeth will back me up, that`s a first for nigh on two years, playing for Rangers he would get past the linesman on occassions. A lot of our threads during the season are now I am afraid bearing fruit , I know its easy to recollect postings that at a later date are shown to be correct , we tend to dimiss the ones we want to , it is not "A I Told you so Mentality" on here thank goodness for me the frustating part is as an exile I can at times see it, read it (on here only) ,but I can feel it, I suspect quite a lot of the 52,000 have similar views. Reading Clarky`s report I could not help to go back to the mid-field mania thread , at that time I counted at least 12 players competing for a berth , it was quantity not quality it was always going to dictate our game play, and still to this day they play out of position, (tell me did Gallagher play left midfield).

Make no mistake folks this is a start from scratch job ,we are not good enough, they are dragging Newcastle down. Lets put together a game plan and stick with it, hell or high water , decide what we want and if it needs replacing do it with the same, I beleive three subs came on together today?, utter rot and naiviety, did it once this year, semi worked, TV waxed lyrical , now it becomes the norm for Bobby, what does it prove, may strike lucky and immediatly a tactical genius is born, nah fraid not, spent all week working on a plan of kinds , three totally different players inserted , lets get a grip on reality here, we are a broken outfit?, the idea was to go to La Manga and get a full service, at present Newcastle are a disgrace

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2001


When I heard the team , initially I was quite pleased. The old guard of Speed, Lee and Barton were out I thought that those coming in would give us the freshness that we crave, a few new ideas and a bit of creativity

Didn't work out that way though, the longer the game went on the worse they became. I agree that many were frightned to make a mistake and tried to play it simple, but someone has to try to create something, and our usual candidates of Solano and Dyer didn't do the biz.

There's two sides to every bad performance perhaps the passport controversy is geting at Solano and perhaps Dyer is in a lot of pain with his injury. As for the others Acuna was out numbered in midfield, he was running around chasing everything but couldn't do the job on his own. Gallacher pop up now and then going forward but their midfield skipped past him as if he didn't exsist. When thwy got to our defence they came across Goma, who plying with a cast on his hand would never go into a 50 /50 tackle the way he would if he wasn't wearing a cast. Aaron hughes looked like a worried man not wanting to make a mistake, and to his credit didn't make too many. The one time he did back off Man City scored. On the other hand Wayne Quinn should have got stuck into Kanchelskis and never did. Throughout the game he gave Kanchelskis acres of space , but worst of all backed off the oposition all of the time. Defenders are suposed to defend , he can't. Yes he has a left foot and can make an ocasional run to the half way line without cutting inside, but he dosn't like to tackle a player. On the right was Griff, who refreshingly didn't play like long ball Barton does. He defender rather well and got into there half on a few occasions. But what does he do with the ball once he's in their half?

No one seemed to want it. the midfield of Solano and Dyer were static, Ameobi was better than Sherer, but the Man City defence seemed bigger than he, winning most of the high ball flung out to him. Shearer is far from fit, so , i'll just say that I also agree that he should have been brought of rather than Ameobi.

The triple substitution has worked before, so it was worth trying agian. In came LuaLua, who looks dangerous and isn't. Stephen Glass who played his part, but as in the griff comment, needs mobile players to play balls to, and finaly Bartino, playing in midfield. He isn't a good defender, and in all honestly is an even worse midfielder. Time to move on if you ask me. And It's also time for a change between the sticks. Who's been in goal during our recent poor spell?

It's not that he can't make some good saves, it's just that his distribution is absolutely hopeless. Perhaps again it's down to the other players being too static. I wonder if Rob Lee or Gary Speed would have made much differance? I kind of doubt it, the problem is in their heads, as much as in their feet. They have to think they can win and have to have a gameplan to do it, they have to move for each other, take one touch not four, break down the oposition with clever interplay not hoof long balls up and hope that Ameobi or Shearar will get lucky.

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2001



Gallagher did play on the left of m/f Buff - he was as bad as everyone else. Agree with you generally regarding the use of three subs together. Actually, I would have used at least one sub at HT to get Barton into central m/f - yes, it really was that bad - and by the time the subs were used we were so shambolic it wouldn't really have made that much difference if had used five or six.

Apparently, Ameobi was carrying a back injury and only played because nobody else was fit - for the conspiracy theorists, that was why he was subbed instead of Shearer. In other words, a man who has been out for eight weeks after knee surgery, and hasn't played a single game, was our fittest available forward!

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2001


Ridiculous, isn't it? Play a forward as left winger and an injured forward up front while Glass is on the bench. Utter bollocks. I booed long and loud at the end. Nothing to be proud of but it made me feel better. Anybody got a problem with that can pay me back my 20 quid and I'll say sorry, okay?

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2001

Disgraceful perfomance which for me raised a question that only Buff has really alluded to so far.

Charlton was a disgrace, but we'd given what I thought was the worst defensive performance in a dozen years the last time at home to Coventry, remember all those misses ? Yesterday was similar, just plain inept. Nobody played well, Shola played okay and I thought he was our best player, the rest were no better than poor.

Now I am one who will not accept that giving 100% is enough in a Premiership player with ambition. We would all give 100% if we played, what they are supposed to have is skill as well as the commitment. Yet again yesterday there looked to be a lack of commitment. This does not mean we need to get more players like Barton who will give 100% it means we need to get all our more skillful players to give it, and then play skilfully.

The players have it in them, we've seen it once or twice this season, but only when it has been a big game. This where I'm worried, and starting to agree with the old fool up in Aberdeen. If the players hadn't been bullied, cajoled, persuaded that they had to better after Charlton then the coaching staff deserve to be questioned severely on their motivational, as well as coaching techniques.

This includes Bobby Robson as well as all the others. We all love th eguy to death but he has to show he knows what he's doing. I have to believe we are progressing. I'm not convinced.

Quinn is only okay, he tries hard but he's not as good as Beresford or Robbie, and I was never sure about them. Griffin and Hughes are young and are still improving. Goma is again okay but not good enough. Yesterday one of our three subs to come on was Warren Barton into a midfield position. If I was Joe Royle I'd have been sitting giggling to myself. Have we really come to the point where we put our poorest defender into a midfield role to add some steel, or commitment or whatever. My first ever shout of "don't be so f** stupid" which I used to save for Dalglish (and heard for the first time ever in the family enclosure) came out when it was decided to take Shola off instead of Shearer. What on earth was that about ? Shola had played left and right, controlled the ball, even tried tricks to get passed players. Shearer didn't. Shearer even tried to get himself off by elbowing some guy across the face. No, not right.

I need to see something better, some improvement, anything.

The week in Spain must have included lots of sessions of "nee tacklin" as the midfield all played that way. A guy next to me smiled at himslef when he realised he had said "we're missing Lee and Speed". How low can it get ?

I whistled loudly in frustration at the end, this is not acceptable. Bobby needs to do something quickly or he'll lose me.

-- Anonymous, February 25, 2001


There's not much I can add to the excellent (if depressing) analysis we've had from MacB and so I, but what stuck out for me was how frightened we were - we played like scared children most of the time. Whether the abuse following La Manga is at the root of this, fear of cards and injuries, or just a lack of balls, I don't know, but something has to be done because Saturday was humiliating. Best moment was a chorus of "Same old Howey, always injured!" when he collided with the goal post. Kanchelskis was all over Quinn - had the centre backs been sleeping, we'd have gone down by more. Incidentally, yet again Goma goes to sleep at a critical moment.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

That was me, by the way.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001


Softie, I think you were right to be critical, I wouldn't apologise for it.

I felt the same way at Derby before Xmas but the fans all stood there clapping the team after a gutless performance!? Interesting to note that Robson couldn't say anything against the fans, perhaps he is hurting as much as we are, it's just he can't convey that to the players.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001


There was a bit of joe Royal's postmatch interview on 5 Live where he was asked about Howey's reaction to the win. He said Howey just smiled and said "Very sweet". Suppose I can't blame him, but still thought "Bastid!".

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

I couldn't step over the booing line I'm afraid and I incresaibgly think that it's less a lack of commitment, it's more the type of players we have. Also, some of the abuse the players were getting fromn the Gallowgate was beyond the pale. I mean, Given was getting abused, Goma was holding off Goater but was falling short of actually fouling him and the crowd were like, "Get stuck in, you soft twat" etc. Can't have helped, frankly.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

Buff - start from scratch, yer dead right. Take your point about not I told you so-ing, but I can't help it. I pissed on the collective bonfire after the Leeds game and was given stick for it (ahoy Jonno!) I put money on us to get less than 53 points before the Xmas games, the spread went up after Leeds/Man U, it's right back down now. No- one likes a smart arse and I'll smack myself in the mush on your collective behalf, but now at least people might take a longer term view and not start talking about the Champions League when (if?) we win another game.
A few have now made the point about commitment - I too believe it's a red herring. Mercenaries many of them may be, but I'm still naive enough to assume that players enjoy playing, and when players go out on the pitch, they try to win games. If they're second to the loose ball are they really uncommitted? Those of you banging on about commitment - if you were up against Roy Keane, who would get to the loose ball first, him or you? Right, and is that because you're uncommitted? Or because he's better than you? What may look like lack of effort, is generally, I suspect, slower thought, slower pace and tactical naivety. Instinct tells me Wadsworth and co may have a lot to do with this. (I wish Venables had come a bit further north). Not that I'm suggesting most of the players are actually good enough, of course, but I also don't advocate desperate cash- splashing, largely since BR's transfer record so far looks fairly piss poor. The only difference to his predecessors being that his shit signings have generally been a bit cheaper. I've got a lot of affection for the old man, but he gets leeway from the public like no- one else. If Gullit had spent £7m on Cort, the knives'd be out.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001

Well Gullit spent 8 million on Ferguson and grown men were crying on here when he went back to Everton. However, I do agree with you on most points.

-- Anonymous, February 26, 2001


Moderation questions? read the FAQ